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 Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:57 am
I always find my self adjusting my cat stance that I learned from karate to the kickboxing I learned early on in my training. sometimes i cant stop bouncing that damn front leg! xp
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Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:08 am
Mythic you're right in that kickboxing/muay thai has an emphasis on the rear leg. the weight distribution is closer to 65% rear 35% forward I'd think. chances are, this has something to do with the different mindset between muay thai and TKD. in muay thai, when you throw a round kick, you commit fully to the kick. you spin totally around if you whiff it. TKD, I'd always thought was more about control and landing multiple kicks in succession. one thing though, we've been learning a couple different stepping techniques so it's not like my school's kickboxers are only good at moving forward. I can sidestep with my sliding footwork just as fast as someone can hop to the side. and my push step can cover forward distance just about as fast as lunging forward. Oh dont get me wrong the usual TKD sparring stance is a loose L-stance about 70% on the rear foot, so you have the front leg free and can spring suddenly off the rear. And I'm not saying that that method means you cant move fast, but (according the polish national squad instructor) the 50/50 or slightly forward stance means you can move that tiniest bit faster. And yes kicks in TKD are (usually) stopped when you get to the front for control and multiple kicks. My experiences at open comp have shown me that fancy foot work is a waste of time on a kickboxer (power and movement works better there smile ) but can completely destroy a kungfu practitioner. And no before someone rips me off a strip I'm not saying kungfu is crap, it just tends to have a weakness against multiple kicks. We do teach full commitment kicks in our more self defense orientated classes and sometimes at the end of a technical class so people can unwind from all the head work by beatin the hell out of things. I know I certainly enjoy it xd and you really know you're alive when you have the entire class beat the hell out of your thigh even with two kick shields in the way...
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:44 pm
My fav move is turning my opponent around and striking without end while keeping their back to me. It's hard to strike someone when you can't turn around. stressed biggrin
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:54 am
DarklingGlory Oh dont get me wrong the usual TKD sparring stance is a loose L-stance about 70% on the rear foot, so you have the front leg free and can spring suddenly off the rear. And I'm not saying that that method means you cant move fast, but (according the polish national squad instructor) the 50/50 or slightly forward stance means you can move that tiniest bit faster. And yes kicks in TKD are (usually) stopped when you get to the front for control and multiple kicks. My experiences at open comp have shown me that fancy foot work is a waste of time on a kickboxer (power and movement works better there smile ) but can completely destroy a kungfu practitioner. And no before someone rips me off a strip I'm not saying kungfu is crap, it just tends to have a weakness against multiple kicks. We do teach full commitment kicks in our more self defense orientated classes and sometimes at the end of a technical class so people can unwind from all the head work by beatin the hell out of things. I know I certainly enjoy it xd and you really know you're alive when you have the entire class beat the hell out of your thigh even with two kick shields in the way... alive, in pain..same difference. xd from what I've heard, kung fu practitioners don't usually do well in open competition. this is a generalization though. I've heard of a few kung fu schools who specialize in open competition and have won many a trophy. mashurenshi: how exactly do you keep them turned around if you're hitting them continuously? you can't grab them if both your fists are swinging. confused
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:34 pm
I don't have to use both hands to keep them turned around, and I have feet, elbows, and knees. scream
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:51 am
I prefere using my legs, but in one of the styles I practice, we're not allowed to use legs yet crying But that did make my punches stronger. Even just a bit sweatdrop
In the martial art I practice, defence is the first thing. After that, comes offence. Sounds logical, but believe me, some people have no defence. I am defensive and offensive; balanced out. That's something they teach us. With us, you have to be balanced if you want to win. The way we punch, defend... All small things, but it makes such a big difference if you know what you're doing.
((For example, we don't punch like karate. Because if you punch like that, 2 of your bones in the lower arm are crossed, which gives it a weak spot. If that happens, you can break it easier. Also, we punch from the middle, not from the sides, because if you do that, you're open, even for a fraction of a second, but it might be a chance for me.))
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:54 pm
MashuRenshi I don't have to use both hands to keep them turned around, and I have feet, elbows, and knees. scream in kickboxing, we learn how to use angles of attack from the very beginning. it's very difficult to keep someone's back turned towards you....and for us, it's even harder to actually get us to turn our backs... how do you get behind your opponent? I'd like to learn something from your technique. lelie: I'm more of a kicker myself, as well. I kick harder than most people swing baseball bats... biggrin I totally agree about small things that make a good fighter because one of the many aspects we learn is taking advantage of openings.. any openings.. we don't have much of the grappling that some of the other arts have because we mainly fight with boxing gloves on, but we do learn a few throws and locks in our supplementary classes.
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:17 am
I haven't got enough confidence when it comes to sparring, Im fine right up until my opponent goes for my face, then I loose it! Theres a guy I quite often fight, he has quite a lot of experience and always tries to keep eye contact with me which really knocks me off my guard I try to break eye contact but i find it hard once hes caught my eye - which he is damn good at!!
My fav sparring technique is the kicking - too the head with a quick front leg turning kick followed by a side kick to the body.
I like doing combination kicking - when I can get them in -- I especially like outer crescent kick followed by snap kick followed by side kick -- tho they have to be snappy! (obviously!!)
I really need to practice more hand techniques --
I like back fist and following up a reverse turning kick with some punches!
Practice is what I need
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:12 am
The thing about attacking people from behind is that to get out of it they have to use a rear technique like a backkick or spinning back fist, and the trouble with that is you cant see and the contact can become excessive. And in that situation its the fault of the person coming in behind because they aren't giving you any choice.
@leslie how do you mean punch like karate? you mean horizontal fist rather than vertical? I'm not sure about karate but in TKD when we're fighting we dont use "technically correct" techniques, we use the applications of them
And as for the side rather than centre thing, we fight almost side on (in TKD) so the centre line isn't as important. And you can generate far more power from the side
I'm a leggy b*****d too, and yeah openings are the key. It gets to the point where you can play with them, like deliberately punch high and hang the arm a second and watch their eyes light up at the gap you've left in your guard. Wait for them to attack it and either attack their attacking limb or block and counter. By leaving obvious gaps you can get some one to attack you where you want them to biggrin works a treat
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:06 pm
As Darkling hinted at not all styles use the twist punch. The vertical punch is far superior to the twist. The bones do not line up and the arm is not fully extended there by making it extremely difficult to break or arm lock/bar the person using the vert fist.
And as for turning a person around, the key is in staying so close that your opponent would find it very hard to kick. Next, using a palm circle step movement and a quick strafe you end up behind your aggressor. Now, keeping them in this compromising position is trying. It takes a lot of practice, but the easiest way to make it work is that once you are behind your partner you CAREFULLY kick out their knees. This limits their mobility, and puts them at the perfect height for some serious head hits. For more info look into Hindiandi Gung Fu and Isshin Ryu Karate.
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Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:21 pm
two things I'd like to chime in with..
firstly, my school fights with modified Muay Thai rules so elbows are allowed. I'd like to think I'd have enough sense of mind to throw a back elbow if my opponent somehow got behind me, which is a very devastating attack....or a mule kick depending on range.. but as darkling said, that's "excessive contact", which I don't have to worry about, but others do...
second thing I'd like to add is when we throw our jabs, we're taught to add a little wrist twist at the end of our extension for two reasons. firstly, with the shoulders relaxed, the extra twist brings the shoulders into the punch, adding a bit more power and range. secondly, a twist at the end of the extension gives a scraping action on contact, giving you a chance to cut your opponent's face. obviously, the second reason doesn't apply to most practitioners, but the first reason is a definite bonus.
I've always been taught that every attack has a purpose. it might not be readily apparent, but there's a reason an attack has been used as long as it has.. (except maybe the TKD upper block, but that's just me mrgreen )
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:28 am
Darkling, yeah, I mean a vertical punch.
Also, the center is extremely important. At least, in the martial art I practice. Last training, we had half the time of practice dedicated to that. The Senpai teaching us kept pushing us, so we'd fall over, and we had to improve before the end of the class. Trust me, if you're not centered one small push is enough. We learn to find those weaknesses and use them to our advantage. A lot of techniques are based on that as well.
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:59 am
Thats what I'm trying to get at, if someone is behind you the only option you have is something devastating be that backelbow, backfist, back snap kick (bringing the heel straight up into the groin) or jumping backkick, and I dont know about you but I quite like most of the people I train with and dont want to maim them. Mythic how do you avoid loads of injuries if you're using full on nasty stuff?
If you're really close vertical fist works nicely but its too short range for my liking. Horizontal fist can be caught and broken if it locks and hangs out. But if you do it properly, i.e. withdraw it as fast as it goes out, its extremely hard to catch, try it I dare ya wink . And it has the benefits of range, twisting the attacking tool into the target causing maximum external and internal damage and the entire body, notably the shoulders and hips rotate into it generating maximum power. And its far more general, I'd only use vertical fist if I was virtually clinching to work over the body.
Leslie, when you say centre. Do you mean keeping your body weight centred or 'defending the centre line' as in kungfu?
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:26 am
DarklingGlory Leslie, when you say centre. Do you mean keeping your body weight centred or 'defending the centre line' as in kungfu? It's Lelie wink And I mean both. The body weight has to be centered, but you also need a centre line and defend that. If you don't, you're easily pushed away. We have techniques based on that, because no matter how strong you are, you might be pushed over easily from the center. Also, the vertical punch is better when you're dealing with guys with muscular chests. If you want to break the chestbone, but all the muscles are in the way, the vertical punch has the knockles in the right position. The horizontal one has too much surface...
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:30 am
LELIE DarklingGlory Leslie, when you say centre. Do you mean keeping your body weight centred or 'defending the centre line' as in kungfu? It's Lelie wink And I mean both. The body weight has to be centered, but you also need a centre line and defend that. If you don't, you're easily pushed away. We have techniques based on that, because no matter how strong you are, you might be pushed over easily from the center. Also, the vertical punch is better when you're dealing with guys with muscular chests. If you want to break the chestbone, but all the muscles are in the way, the vertical punch has the knockles in the right position. The horizontal one has too much surface... Ooops ma'bad smile Fair enough. Keeping your weight centered is important in lots of martial arts. The centre line principle does work for some things but I have noticed it can be quite weak against quite a lot of attacks. I have a friend who does kungfu and is really hot for center line theory and when we spar I can beat him round the place by using circular or inward attacks to go for his sides or side of his head. Admitedly atacking his centre line can be a bad idea. We're taught to strike with the first two knuckles in horizontal fist, and we condition them with knuckle press ups and breaking boards. Ok we're not getting anywhere arguing this back and forth, whats your take on open handed strikes using the side of the hand? We call them knifehand and ridge hand strikes in TKD. When I first started training I was very doubtful about the whole thing, now I really like them. So much so that I prefer using a knifehand (outside side of the hand) strike to break boards than a punch
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