Arguments that you hate

[234518]

Oh, and you know what I else I hate that I just remembered? The idea that Planned Parenthood is an evil organization because supposedly Margaret Sanger was a racist and wanted to kill disabled people*. I s**t you not, a coworker of mine said this to me once. I was simply flabbergasted. The idea that an entire organization is horrible simply because it's founder was a horrible person is just stupid. By that particular person's reasoning, that yellow VW bug with the blue and pink flowers on it that just drove past is a chariot for Satan...afterall, volkswagon was created by Hitler. (I wish I had said that to my coworker, but I was too stunned by her stupidity to react.)



*These allegations are untrue, by the way. According to the wikipedia.com article on her, "Groups opposed to Planned Parenthood and/or legalized abortion have frequently targeted Sanger for her views, attributing her efforts to promote birth control to a desire to "purify" the human race through eugenics, and even to eliminate minority races by placing birth control clinics in minority neighborhoods.[9] For this reason, Sanger is often quoted selectively or out of context by detractors (a practice known as quote mining), and her history and involvement with socialism and eugenics have often been rationalized or even ignored by her defenders and biographers (a practice known as spin doctoring). Despite the allegations of racism, Sanger's work with minorities earned the respect of civil rights leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr."  

[Deformography]

Luna Eclipse

Oh, and you know what I else I hate that I just remembered? The idea that Planned Parenthood is an evil organization because supposedly Margaret Sanger was a racist and wanted to kill disabled people*. I s**t you not, a coworker of mine said this to me once. I was simply flabbergasted. The idea that an entire organization is horrible simply because it's founder was a horrible person is just stupid. By that particular person's reasoning, that yellow VW bug with the blue and pink flowers on it that just drove past is a chariot for Satan...afterall, volkswagon was created by Hitler. (I wish I had said that to my coworker, but I was too stunned by her stupidity to react.)



*These allegations are untrue, by the way. According to the wikipedia.com article on her, "Groups opposed to Planned Parenthood and/or legalized abortion have frequently targeted Sanger for her views, attributing her efforts to promote birth control to a desire to "purify" the human race through eugenics, and even to eliminate minority races by placing birth control clinics in minority neighborhoods.[9] For this reason, Sanger is often quoted selectively or out of context by detractors (a practice known as quote mining), and her history and involvement with socialism and eugenics have often been rationalized or even ignored by her defenders and biographers (a practice known as spin doctoring). Despite the allegations of racism, Sanger's work with minorities earned the respect of civil rights leaders such as Martin Luther King Jr."

Gotta love what the opposition will stoop to to vilify someone.

In Woodbury, Minnesota (Woodbury is a suburb of Saint Paul, about 10-15 minutes out of the city. It's also my favourite suburb heart ) a new Planned Parenthood majigger opened. It was recent, just a few months ago (I think.). Anyway, the Pioneer Press (Saint Paul's newspaper) is just inundated with editorial letters from anti-choicers, claiming that, even though this clinic does not provide abortion it is evil because there are OTHER Planned Parenthood clinics that do. Oh, and they also give out condoms. That also makes them evil. Because, y'know, if a kid has condoms they're gonna have sex (even though I got condoms and dental dams, FROM PLANNED PARENTHOOD, at a recent GLBT function and I'm still a virgin.).

Anyone who goes to a Saint Paul Public High School is lucky. They have these clinics that give out free condoms, and they can do all sorts of b/c and pregnancy related stuff like testing, STD testing, physicals... But, you need parental consent unless you're getting counselling. But! They send a general consent form, that includes a "you may/may not talk to my child(ren) about birth control." option. In fact... Dammit, I had the form right here... Oh well. Not terribly important.  

[Asexual-Slut~Enya]

Deformography

Anyone who goes to a Saint Paul Public High School is lucky. They have these clinics that give out free condoms, and they can do all sorts of b/c and pregnancy related stuff like testing, STD testing, physicals... But, you need parental consent unless you're getting counselling. But! They send a general consent form, that includes a "you may/may not talk to my child(ren) about birth control." option. In fact... Dammit, I had the form right here... Oh well. Not terribly important.

This is also fairly true of private schools and universities (*attends a private university in St. Paul*).

Minneapolis, on the other hand, is hella' scary. (Perhaps, I should refer to it by its common name: "Murderapolis.") Crossing the river, one can see the political climate change almost instantly. St. Paul, for the most part, is a very liberal city -- Minneapolis, for the most part, is a very conservative city.

One also notices a distinct difference in the levels of test scores and a whole host of other differences -- I do believe that teen pregnancy rates are much higher in Minneaopolis, though I don't have any sources handy.

I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that most of those nasty replies came from people that live there.

Edit: I've never driven to Woodbury. Perhaps, during the school year, I shall have a little drive through. wink  

[234518]

Another argument I hate: Someone in either the PLG or the abortion debate thread (I can't remember which) denied that pregnancy could possibly have longlasting problems or cause some form of emotional trauma, saying that millions of women give birh or actively try to get pregnant everyday, if it's supposedly so horrible and oppressive, then how could our species reproduce, etc. etc.

Of course pregnancy is neither oppressive nor traumatic...if you are going through it willingly and looking forward to the outcome. Anything that is enjoyable will become the exact opposite if it is forced upon you against your will. Case in point: sex. Sex is fun, exciting, and an especially great experience when shared with someone you love. When sex is forced upon you despite your opposition however, it is not fun. It's traumatizing.

You know what else grinds my gears? How the antis refer to pregnancy as "miraculous", or a "precious gift". Yet, in the argument I mentioned above, pregnancy suddenly dropped from miracle status to something millions of people do worldwide everyday and is no big deal. What is it, pro-lifers? Miraculous or mundane? Ask these same people about abortion, and they will describe it as a traumatic event that results in much bloodshed, a barbaric medical procedure in which the abortionist reaches in and yanks a fully formed, screaming infant out of it's mother's uterus and proceeds to rip it limb from limb before her very eyes, spraying the walls with blood and scarring the woman for life. Yet somehow, this same procedure is simultaneously the "easy way out." eek C'mon pro-lifers! Consistency!  

[Deformography]

Asexual-Slut~Enya

Deformography

Anyone who goes to a Saint Paul Public High School is lucky. They have these clinics that give out free condoms, and they can do all sorts of b/c and pregnancy related stuff like testing, STD testing, physicals... But, you need parental consent unless you're getting counselling. But! They send a general consent form, that includes a "you may/may not talk to my child(ren) about birth control." option. In fact... Dammit, I had the form right here... Oh well. Not terribly important.

This is also fairly true of private schools and universities (*attends a private university in St. Paul*).

Minneapolis, on the other hand, is hella' scary. (Perhaps, I should refer to it by its common name: "Murderapolis.") Crossing the river, one can see the political climate change almost instantly. St. Paul, for the most part, is a very liberal city -- Minneapolis, for the most part, is a very conservative city.

One also notices a distinct difference in the levels of test scores and a whole host of other differences -- I do believe that teen pregnancy rates are much higher in Minneaopolis, though I don't have any sources handy.

I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that most of those nasty replies came from people that live there.

Edit: I've never driven to Woodbury. Perhaps, during the school year, I shall have a little drive through. wink

Where do you go?

Yeah, I've noticed that... Though, most GLBT things are held/centred in Minneapolis. Gay Pride and Gay Day in the Park are both held in Loring Park every year, and District 202 is in Minneapolis.

I've noticed that many high schools in St. Paul, despite large immigrant populations, are pretty liberal. I've read lots of banned/challenged books throughout highschool as part of my English courses, and things can be pretty easy for a GSA. Though, there are some problems with the students.

As for pregnancy... I wouldn't be surprised if Minneapolis has more teen pregnancy, though I see A LOT of pregnant/parenting students at my school, especially in Hmong and black girls. I think that birth control and pregnancy testing are the clinic's most high-demand services.

Woodbury is nice. More shopping than you can shake a stick at.  

[Asexual-Slut~Enya]

Deformography

Where do you go?

Yeah, I've noticed that... Though, most GLBT things are held/centred in Minneapolis. Gay Pride and Gay Day in the Park are both held in Loring Park every year, and District 202 is in Minneapolis.

I've noticed that many high schools in St. Paul, despite large immigrant populations, are pretty liberal. I've read lots of banned/challenged books throughout highschool as part of my English courses, and things can be pretty easy for a GSA. Though, there are some problems with the students.

As for pregnancy... I wouldn't be surprised if Minneapolis has more teen pregnancy, though I see A LOT of pregnant/parenting students at my school, especially in Hmong and black girls. I think that birth control and pregnancy testing are the clinic's most high-demand services.

Woodbury is nice. More shopping than you can shake a stick at.

I attend Hamline University -- it is, really, quite nice. ((Right off Snelling avenue, near the state fair grounds, if you are curious about location.))

As an interesting question. What was your sexual education experience like? I have heard that, for the most part, the education, in this regard, pretty much fails across the state; but, I must say that my education was fairly decent -- my teacher even made it a point to explain that abstinence is not one-hundred percent effective.

((Oh, and to any mods, if this is too offtopic, I will gladly take it to the PM's.))  

[Deformography]

Asexual-Slut~Enya

Deformography

Where do you go?

Yeah, I've noticed that... Though, most GLBT things are held/centred in Minneapolis. Gay Pride and Gay Day in the Park are both held in Loring Park every year, and District 202 is in Minneapolis.

I've noticed that many high schools in St. Paul, despite large immigrant populations, are pretty liberal. I've read lots of banned/challenged books throughout highschool as part of my English courses, and things can be pretty easy for a GSA. Though, there are some problems with the students.

As for pregnancy... I wouldn't be surprised if Minneapolis has more teen pregnancy, though I see A LOT of pregnant/parenting students at my school, especially in Hmong and black girls. I think that birth control and pregnancy testing are the clinic's most high-demand services.

Woodbury is nice. More shopping than you can shake a stick at.

I attend Hamline University -- it is, really, quite nice. ((Right off Snelling avenue, near the state fair grounds, if you are curious about location.))

As an interesting question. What was your sexual education experience like? I have heard that, for the most part, the education, in this regard, pretty much fails across the state; but, I must say that my education was fairly decent -- my teacher even made it a point to explain that abstinence is not one-hundred percent effective.

((Oh, and to any mods, if this is too offtopic, I will gladly take it to the PM's.))

You go to Hamline? Awesome. I plan on going there next fall. I just need to get around to scheduling a campus visit... What highschool did you go to?

A lot of "have pre-marital sex and your life will be ruined!" The book that I was taught from had no birth control information, and it certainly didn't have any discussion of abortion or homosexuality (for abortion, I know our Child Development book mentions it with a very anti-choice bias, and I'm taking the class this year so I'll have a lot to rant about, and as for homosexuality the 9th grade book has a whole chapter on it, but the teacher refuses to teach it).

There was a run-down of STDs in the book, and my teacher showed us a nice, very GRAPHIC powerpoint of what STDs will do to your gentials, cervix, and other surrounding areas. In the book, though, it's all "pre-marital sex=STDs. Marital sex=100% safe sex." Uhm... have a baby/get married as a teen and your life will be ruined... you won't have any friends and your family will hate you... I should really find that book. It's still in my room somewhere (good thing I don't have an obligation for it).

We basically got the run of the mill anti-sex garbage... I'm amazed that my teacher even used it, she's so awesome. It's not like her at all.  

[petit_diable]

Deformography

Anyway, the Pioneer Press (Saint Paul's newspaper) is just inundated with editorial letters from anti-choicers, claiming that, even though this clinic does not provide abortion it is evil because there are OTHER Planned Parenthood clinics that do. Oh, and they also give out condoms. That also makes them evil. Because, y'know, if a kid has condoms they're gonna have sex (even though I got condoms and dental dams, FROM PLANNED PARENTHOOD, at a recent GLBT function and I'm still a virgin.).

Lol. The last time I got my hands on a condom, my friends and I blew it up and played volley ball with it. Ya gotta love my old school...  

[Asexual-Slut~Enya]

Deformography

You go to Hamline? Awesome. I plan on going there next fall. I just need to get around to scheduling a campus visit... What highschool did you go to?

A lot of "have pre-marital sex and your life will be ruined!" The book that I was taught from had no birth control information, and it certainly didn't have any discussion of abortion or homosexuality (for abortion, I know our Child Development book mentions it with a very anti-choice bias, and I'm taking the class this year so I'll have a lot to rant about, and as for homosexuality the 9th grade book has a whole chapter on it, but the teacher refuses to teach it).

There was a run-down of STDs in the book, and my teacher showed us a nice, very GRAPHIC powerpoint of what STDs will do to your gentials, cervix, and other surrounding areas. In the book, though, it's all "pre-marital sex=STDs. Marital sex=100% safe sex." Uhm... have a baby/get married as a teen and your life will be ruined... you won't have any friends and your family will hate you... I should really find that book. It's still in my room somewhere (good thing I don't have an obligation for it).

We basically got the run of the mill anti-sex garbage... I'm amazed that my teacher even used it, she's so awesome. It's not like her at all.

Really, you are? That is amazing -- I have never known any other person, in real life, who also frequents Gaia. Perhaps, you will be the first -- that is, of course, if you still intend to attend Hamline after you graduate. wink Oh, and I attended Goodhue High School -- Red Wing is the nearest town of note. *Graduating class was forty students*

Oh, and I pity your poor classmates. You, obviously, are knowledgeable in this subject; but, some of your classmates may actually believe such garbage. Oh, and I think we had a speaker come in and show us the very same presentation. I couldn't eat the cauliflower that day. gonk  

[Deformography]

Asexual-Slut~Enya

Deformography

You go to Hamline? Awesome. I plan on going there next fall. I just need to get around to scheduling a campus visit... What highschool did you go to?

A lot of "have pre-marital sex and your life will be ruined!" The book that I was taught from had no birth control information, and it certainly didn't have any discussion of abortion or homosexuality (for abortion, I know our Child Development book mentions it with a very anti-choice bias, and I'm taking the class this year so I'll have a lot to rant about, and as for homosexuality the 9th grade book has a whole chapter on it, but the teacher refuses to teach it).

There was a run-down of STDs in the book, and my teacher showed us a nice, very GRAPHIC powerpoint of what STDs will do to your gentials, cervix, and other surrounding areas. In the book, though, it's all "pre-marital sex=STDs. Marital sex=100% safe sex." Uhm... have a baby/get married as a teen and your life will be ruined... you won't have any friends and your family will hate you... I should really find that book. It's still in my room somewhere (good thing I don't have an obligation for it).

We basically got the run of the mill anti-sex garbage... I'm amazed that my teacher even used it, she's so awesome. It's not like her at all.

Really, you are? That is amazing -- I have never known any other person, in real life, who also frequents Gaia. Perhaps, you will be the first -- that is, of course, if you still intend to attend Hamline after you graduate. wink Oh, and I attended Goodhue High School -- Red Wing is the nearest town of note. *Graduating class was forty students*

Oh, and I pity your poor classmates. You, obviously, are knowledgeable in this subject; but, some of your classmates may actually believe such garbage. Oh, and I think we had a speaker come in and show us the very same presentation. I couldn't eat the cauliflower that day. gonk

Forty? Wow. I'll be surprised if my graduating class is over 400 (we started with something to the tune of 700, and are sitting at... 500? 550?). I'm pretty sure I've got my heart set on Hamline... This may sound wierd, but how is Hamline with religion? Would someone who isn't religious feel comfortable there? It may sound odd, but schools like St. Thomas and Concordia are all "GOD GOD GOD" and I'm like "THIN AIR THIN AIR THIN AIR!" I figure I'll get a better answer from a student...

The cauliflaur c**k/c**t amuses me to this day... *grins* I think it might be worse for students who go to Catholic schools. I hear a lot of "they didn't use protection because they didn't know anything about it" when it comes to pregnant Catholic schoolers.

We also got the speaker who came in and put a condom on a wooden d***o... Unfortunately, I had to miss school that morning. sad  

[The Velveteen Violinist]

All of them.

rofl I'm kidding of course!

I hate ALL arguements relying soley on moral backing

AND

Any arguements that involves morals that apply to one person but not the rest of the world.  

[Asexual-Slut~Enya]

Deformography

Forty? Wow. I'll be surprised if my graduating class is over 400 (we started with something to the tune of 700, and are sitting at... 500? 550?). I'm pretty sure I've got my heart set on Hamline... This may sound wierd, but how is Hamline with religion? Would someone who isn't religious feel comfortable there? It may sound odd, but schools like St. Thomas and Concordia are all "GOD GOD GOD" and I'm like "THIN AIR THIN AIR THIN AIR!" I figure I'll get a better answer from a student...

The cauliflaur c**k/c**t amuses me to this day... *grins* I think it might be worse for students who go to Catholic schools. I hear a lot of "they didn't use protection because they didn't know anything about it" when it comes to pregnant Catholic schoolers.

We also got the speaker who came in and put a condom on a wooden d***o... Unfortunately, I had to miss school that morning. sad

There were only two in my class who did not graduate -- the small class sizes work fairly well to ensure that everyone receives ample help if they seek it.

Homigosh -- Hamline is, quite possibly, the most liberal school in the entire state. You will have no issues fitting in if you are an atheist. There are quite a few times when students have forgotten that they are, technically, attending a religious institution. ((They were, like, "Why do we have Easter off? Isn't that just a Christian holiday?" Then, after a little reminder, they do a little face-palming.))

It is really sad when I hear stories about teens who were told that condoms were entirely ineffective and, as such, neglected to use them.

My teacher, as a demonstration explaining why, in a pinch, it doesn't really matter what size the condom is -- it will fit any man's p***s -- rolled a condom over a meter stick and another over a two-liter bottle of Coke. xd  

[Miraculous Jorbee]

I hate hate mother ******** hate the whole "If a woman gets pregnant because of rape she'll be happy because of the baby" argument, first off, WTF. I agree with people who've said they'd probably end their life over it. Thank FSM my mom would never stop me from getting an abortion if I was raped. ( and I could talk her into the other s**t..hopefully)

If someone raped me I'd already be a mess, if I got pregnant cause of it I might just lose my sanity all together.

Oh and I hate the God argument. Your god may not be my god so ******** you.  

[Half Baked SF]

Lady Yazoo

I hate hate mother ******** hate the whole "If a woman gets pregnant because of rape she'll be happy because of the baby" argument, first off, WTF. I agree with people who've said they'd probably end their life over it. Thank FSM my mom would never stop me from getting an abortion if I was raped. ( and I could talk her into the other s**t..hopefully)

If someone raped me I'd already be a mess, if I got pregnant cause of it I might just lose my sanity all together.

Oh and I hate the God argument. Your god may not be my god so ******** you.

Hear hear. My God is fine with my taking any action I wish as long as it doesn't harm another without due justification. Anything that a zealot says otherwise is an insult to their God considering it's the same God they worship, just viewed differently.  

[Reinna Astarel]

Luna Eclipse

Another argument I hate: Someone in either the PLG or the abortion debate thread (I can't remember which) denied that pregnancy could possibly have longlasting problems or cause some form of emotional trauma, saying that millions of women give birh or actively try to get pregnant everyday, if it's supposedly so horrible and oppressive, then how could our species reproduce, etc. etc.

Of course pregnancy is neither oppressive nor traumatic...if you are going through it willingly and looking forward to the outcome. Anything that is enjoyable will become the exact opposite if it is forced upon you against your will. Case in point: sex. Sex is fun, exciting, and an especially great experience when shared with someone you love. When sex is forced upon you despite your opposition however, it is not fun. It's traumatizing.

You know what else grinds my gears? How the antis refer to pregnancy as "miraculous", or a "precious gift". Yet, in the argument I mentioned above, pregnancy suddenly dropped from miracle status to something millions of people do worldwide everyday and is no big deal. What is it, pro-lifers? Miraculous or mundane? Ask these same people about abortion, and they will describe it as a traumatic event that results in much bloodshed, a barbaric medical procedure in which the abortionist reaches in and yanks a fully formed, screaming infant out of it's mother's uterus and proceeds to rip it limb from limb before her very eyes, spraying the walls with blood and scarring the woman for life. Yet somehow, this same procedure is simultaneously the "easy way out." eek C'mon pro-lifers! Consistency!

Hrm, I hadn't noticed that before. Thanks for pointing it out whee - and yeah....some lifers really do need to choose a story and stick with it.

Then again, I've known a few who might respond with the 'easy way out vs. traumatizing women' part by saying 'Oh, she was fed information that it would be the easy way out to avoid consequences blahblahblah, and wasn't told anything about how traumatizing it would be..." rolleyes