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 Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:52 pm
I.Am Meh, if you support ALF or ELF, then you aren't really Pro-Choice on vegetarianism. And if the death of animals is really equal to the murder of humans, in your eyes, then I don't see how you could possibly be Pro-Choice on the matter. Well, I dun mean to say it, but... OMGWTFH? ((Whatever that means.)) I dun support ALF OR ELF! crying They give a bad name to us AR people...... Much like I'm sure that you're not going around bombing clinics as I am that I'm not gonna go bomb a testing facility.
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:23 am
o.O I thought that you were the one who was talking about ALF/ELF as though they weren't all that bad. Maybe it was La Veuve...
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:28 am
..Le Chat du Noir.. Pyrotechnic Oracle ..Le Chat du Noir.. Pyrotechnic Oracle lymelady some are vegan/veggie because they think ingesting animal products is gross [/annoyingness] But killing your own offspring for your simple comfort isn't? confused Hahaha... I'm not here to debate, honey. If you want a debate, PM me or go to an actual debate. I'm not even going to try here. divineseraph they find the sight of blood and tissue flowing through a tube to be beautiful. Who? As far as I'm concerned, no pro-choicer I know, real life and Gaian, enjoys seeing that stuff. wink I asked a question where we coudl see it. i want an answer where we can see it. Oh yes. By the way, I'm not killing it, I'm just removing it from inside of me, like I would remove a tumor or something. Homicidal negligence? No, if I took out a bunch of tapeworms and left them on the floor, would I get arrested for animal cruelty? And anyways, the baby doesn't have any rights to my body. Are you saying you don't find the thought of forcing women to carry pregnancies to term and just dumping the babies off at an adoption agency and not bothering to check up with them at least a tad bit disturbing? And if you don't mind, I'd rather keep this in a separate thread unless if I.Am allows it to be in his thread. I'm not going to say much since this is not ment forn debates but Tumor =/= fetus, to remove it is to kill it and it doesn't equal as a tape worn either (tape worms are always bad). Fetus don't always cause serious compliacations,deaths,ect...even if woman does have problems (I know cause my mom was told all kinds of problems could come up cause of her health and illnesses when she was younger but I was born and my mom had no problems). Tape worms on the other hand always make people sick and have to be removed in order to get better. And I find it ironic that people say they have no right to your body, nobody should force anything on anyone yet abotion forces death on someone (yes a fetus IS still a person, it's human, it's living and at that time devolping). Which I find disturbing. Thats all (if you want to debate then just p.m. me).
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:38 am
..Le Chat du Noir.. I.Am Meh, if you support ALF or ELF, then you aren't really Pro-Choice on vegetarianism. And if the death of animals is really equal to the murder of humans, in your eyes, then I don't see how you could possibly be Pro-Choice on the matter. Well, I dun mean to say it, but... OMGWTFH? ((Whatever that means.)) I dun support ALF OR ELF! crying They give a bad name to us AR people...... Much like I'm sure that you're not going around bombing clinics as I am that I'm not gonna go bomb a testing facility. OMGWTFH means- Oh My God, What the F*** Hell (just so you know now). I don't trust them either. Bombing only causes more problems it seems.
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:27 am
..Le Chat du Noir.. lymelady She's not George Carlin, don't worry. At least, I hope not. "Why is it that when it's us, it's an "abortion" and when it's chicken it's an "omelette"? Are we so much better than chickens all of a sudden?" Sorry, that's what it reminded me of. Or scrambled eggs, ya know! Well.... I don't think I'm George Carlin..... Last time I checked, I was female, Japanese, and vegan..... 4laugh (I hope.) How could I forget? Scrambled! And, alright then! No George Carlins here. Yet. The difference to Chat (the only person in here who can give a personal response on the matter) is bodily integrity, so there's one reason. Whether you agree that it makes sense is one thing, but as long as the same treatment would be dealt to cows infringing on it that's dealt to humans, it's consistant. There's not much to debate in here anyway, is there? That's the answer to the question, How can the two viewpoints be consoled? The answer to another one is that a chicken is not more important than a human and would be removed even if it meant death if it was infringing on bodily integrity.
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:52 am
I.Am o.O I thought that you were the one who was talking about ALF/ELF as though they weren't all that bad. Maybe it was La Veuve... Yes, that was me. I did say I didn't really want to debate vegetarianism or activism, but I'll just say this: the ALF/ELF are not organised groups with leaders, spokespeople, official members or even much communication--if any--between supporters. This means ANYONE can call themselves members, there are NO rules to follow, and you cannot be "kicked out." Understand what I'm saying? Think about it this way: if there was an unorganised "collective" of pro-lifers, which members do you think would get the most publicity? Those who engaged in non-violent protest and civil disobedience? Those who adopted 20 kids? Or those who firebombed clinics?As a pro-lifer, you should be familiar with media bias against certain viewpoints.
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:12 am
I'm sorry, but the very name, "Animal LIBERATION FRONT" implies militant activities. Their purpose is to "liberate" animals, and they are at the "front," the people fighting, so...
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:22 am
Didn't Alf eat cats?
Anyway. It's actually one of their aims, according to Robin Webb.
(1) "To liberate animals from suffering or potential suffering and place them in good permanent homes or, where appropriate, release them into their natural environment." (2) "To damage or destroy property and equipment associated with animal abuse, by taking that property out of the arena of animal abuse so it can no longer cause harm, and inflicting economic loss on the abusers with the intention of driving them out of business." (3) "To take all reasonable precautions not to endanger life of any kind" (Best 2004).
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:55 am
lymelady (1) "To liberate animals from suffering or potential suffering and place them in good permanent homes or, where appropriate, release them into their natural environment." (2) "To damage or destroy property and equipment associated with animal abuse, by taking that property out of the arena of animal abuse so it can no longer cause harm, and inflicting economic loss on the abusers with the intention of driving them out of business." (3) "To take all reasonable precautions not to endanger life of any kind" (Best 2004). As I said, I really don't want to debate this, but I fail to see how this is bad. If you found yourself alone in an empty abortion clinic after hours, would you just leave everything alone so business could carry on as usual the next day? Would you respect the property of someone who killed innocent people for a living? Or would you at least make it difficult for them to kill again?
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:59 am
Right, so the ALF just happens to find itself alone, in abandoned facilities, by pure chance?
No, I don't support the firebombing of clinics, whether they are empty and I am alone in them or not. That is what is called "illegal."
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:10 am
La Veuve Zin lymelady (1) "To liberate animals from suffering or potential suffering and place them in good permanent homes or, where appropriate, release them into their natural environment." (2) "To damage or destroy property and equipment associated with animal abuse, by taking that property out of the arena of animal abuse so it can no longer cause harm, and inflicting economic loss on the abusers with the intention of driving them out of business." (3) "To take all reasonable precautions not to endanger life of any kind" (Best 2004). As I said, I really don't want to debate this, but I fail to see how this is bad. If you found yourself alone in an empty abortion clinic after hours, would you just leave everything alone so business could carry on as usual the next day? Would you respect the property of someone who killed innocent people for a living? Or would you at least make it difficult for them to kill again? I'm not saying it's wrong (or right), and you're right, this debate really doesn't belong here if it's going to go on at all. I'm just saying, he's right in that they actually are militant as a group as opposed to people who are pro-life. I'm certain they get bad press though, it sounds like the sort of group that would.
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:06 am
I.Am Right, so the ALF just happens to find itself alone, in abandoned facilities, by pure chance? No, I don't support the firebombing of clinics, whether they are empty and I am alone in them or not. That is what is called "illegal." Um, you missed my point. And I know there's at least one law out there you disagree with, oui?
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:43 am
Clearly, abortion. But what does that have to do with anything? I would not support violent actions to overturn it, whether people are hurt physically or not. Nor in the case of the illegalization of gay marriage.
And, even though I'm against the law that makes abortion legal, I fully support the law that says, "Don't blow other people's stuff up." Breaking -that- law in order to prove a point against another law is wrong.
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:38 pm
I don't support unnecessary violence, ie. bombing clinics, facilities, or even setting a racetrack on fire. Period.
Unless if it's some sort of... Like.... Evil possessed thing, like in Monster House.... lol
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Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:23 pm
..Le Chat du Noir.. For the last time, I'm not gonna debate here unless if someone openly would like to and says it. I'd like to openly debate here. I honostly want you to post a counter to my argument where every one can read and have a say.
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