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Good input from everyone so far. I personally think one of the problems too is that our context of marriage is different than it was back then. Marriage back then was legal agrement primarily. The idea of marriage for romantic love is a rather modern concept, relatively speaking of course.

Southern Cross - This is the view that I take concerning the Bible myself.

Venus - I have problems with that myself. Fortunately my fiancee will remind me when I'm taking her for granted.

Freelance - Thank you for sharing that heart . Yes Paul is a hard one to figure out lol. What's helped me is examining the letters that we know he actually wrote and examining the historical context of the letters attributed to him such as Titus, 1 Timothy, and 2 Timothy. Marcion is central to understanding the context of the letters attributed to Paul since Marcion used Paul's letters as his canon.

Honestly, I think that the whole a**l sex thing has had a bad rap. Anymore, with homosexuals being accepted for who they are, and people being more open about sexuality, that view is beginning to change.

Many guys I know have grudgingly admitted to enjoying having their a**s stimulated during sex, and it's no surprise. That is where the male's 'G-spot' is located (I know the g-spot is a debated topic). There is a bundle of nerves located just inside the a**s against the prostate, and many guys get a pleasurable sensation when it is stimulated.

Yet, I don't personally know any gals who enjoy a**l, as all their nerve bundles seem to be up front.

Maybe this is why guys have the stereotypical preoccupation with functions of the a** and stereotypically girls don't. Maybe it's because those functions stimulate that bundle a bit. I don't know, I'm just throwing that out there.

Besides, I only have my man as actual experience though, and he won't let me anywhere near his rear to check it out, though I can't say I haven't tried. I just want him to feel as good as he makes me feel. On the bright side, he isn't remotely interested in putting it in my a** either.

As to masturbation, until recently (say the last 30 to 40 years or so), women were supposed to maintain a certain dignified air about them. To admit to doing certain baser actions related to the more natural, animalistic side of our nature was degrading. Guys wanted 'classy' girls, because 'classy' girls could control themselves, and were considered safe marriage material... they probably didn't realize how those girls did keep control of their baser natures. wink

i think its really silly when people assume women dont materbate. of course we do, we just dont flaunt it around and brag about that sexy porn video we watched last night like alot of men do.

most porn though is geared towards men so it seems its still a big secret that women enjoy porn and masterbation rolleyes at least we have our romance novels with detailed sex scenes

Here I just found something interesting. (I am not a polyamorist or what this site is about, was just interested in this specific topic of premarital sex because I've never been convinced that it's as horrible as many churches say]. bible and premarital sex

I think once we're comfortable with who we are, being single or in a relationship doesn't matter so much. Although it could be argued that certain fulfillments aren't met outside of having a relationship. It could just be that I'm overlooking something at present.

But you never know when you will find someone you just click with. And by click, I mean you may be a unique puzzle piece that has yet to find someone that just fits with you, but life is pretty random like that. One of my close friends was single for 27 years as a Christian. He never could find a woman he completely liked or got along with. And then he met an exchange student from Rome. They fell in love and have been married for close to ten years now. Anything's possible. 3nodding

Every person who gets into a relationship with another person is going to have some sort of issue at some point in the relationship (more than once)... Nowadays, allot of people use divorce as an escape hatch, as opposed to learning to compromise.

Another scary trend I am seeing is that so many young people I have talked to just feel that their first marriage is going to automatically end in divorce anyway, and they just need to get that first one out of the way. Back in the day dating and being serious was for determining long term compatibility, and people were encouraged to sacrifice for their partner. Now, if someone has to sacrifice for the sake of making a relationship work, they are told by the majority of society and media that it isn't worth it.

My little cousins were hounding my a couple months ago about my husband's and my relationship. We don't wear our rings, and the youngest (9 years old) asked me how long Dave and I had been together. I told her 10 years. She then proceeded to ask if we were ever going to get married. Then the oldest (11 years old) cut in and answered her sister something along the lines of that Dave and I were probably not planning to get married so it would be easier for us to split when we didn't want to be together anymore... ti which they started arguing before I could get a word in.

I finally was able to tell them I had been married for 10 years, and the youngest said we couldn't be married if we didn't have rings. I laughed. Then she asked when I might expect to want to find a new man... to which I laughed... then the oldest answered that I was probably already looking, hence the absence of my ring... I didn't laugh anymore, and that was about the time I realized they were being absolutely serious, and that they had talked about me and Dave, and that they thought they had us figured out.

You see, my cousin married their dad (who is 16 years older than she is) when she was 16. She waited until she was 21 to have her first because her husband was really a decent and intelligent guy who thought it best that way, but who had unfortunately fell in love with her before she came clean and told him she was 15 at the time. By then, his heart was given, and she was determined to get out from under having to listen to adults... In her mid 20's, she realized she missed out on her childhood and started a downhill avalanche of her life ever since. She cheated, got pregnant, had to tell her husband, got divorced, and so forth and so on, and the girls have seen allot of drama in their few years.

After having a really serious discussion after they opened that door, I realized that this is a commonly accepted set reasoning among their peers. It is pumped into their heads with TV, the songs they listen to, books, and movies. My mother had custody of them for awhile at the end of last year, after their mom got busted for manufacturing meth with her boyfriend, and I got a really harsh reality check concerning the culture my kids are being raised in. To me, it makes it all the more important that I live a good example for them, and that I keep the paths of communication open with them.

Here is my stance on Sex, and a bit of background.

I was severly sexually abused growing up. I was also raised (and still am) Mormon. So from A relidious point of view, sex outside of marriage is forbidden. From an emotional stand point I was scared to death of sex. All I knew of it was that it was a way to demean and control someone. When my mother found out what was going on she did the best thing in the world, she called the police and got a divorce (and yes he went to jail) its a hard thing in the Mormon religion to get a divorce, because we see marriage as for time and all eternity, but,since what he did was so wrong the Church is all for severing that eternal bond. However there were people who looked down on my mother and the rest of my family for what we went through.

I spent a long time not wanting to ever have sex, I encountered other people who treated sex like it was a power tool, and it just re-affirmed to me that sex is bad. I joined the navy, and there sex was rampant, girls were all over getting pregnant, and it seemed wasteful and life harming. I was glad that both my religious views and personal experience made me unwilling to engage in it.

At the same time I was really lonely and I wanted to have that physical closeness, but was way to afraid to let anyone in. I had an accident, and got out of the Navy. a few years later my friend introduced me to the man I married.

Now I am a happily married woman. My wonderful husband was very understanding about my fears and my worries when it came to sex. He has always backed off when I have been uncomfortable, and he has encouraged me to explore and made the whole thing so much better. I find that I actually quite enjoy it. I do have some health issues So I cannot always engage in sex when I might want to, but again he is very understanding. We have a wonderful 2 year old daughter that I wouldn't trade for anything.

I know that many religious people think sex is dirty. That there is Original sin (which is not something Mormons believe in, Adam and Eve paid for that sin when they got kicked out of Eden, we do not have to keep paying for it.) My understanding and belief is that God wants us to enjoy Sex. it is for procreation yes, but it is also to strengthen the bond between man and wife. it is something sacred and holy when done right. Like all good and wonderful things it can be corrupted and used for wrong purposes.

Relationships require work. Nothing worth having is easy.