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 Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:30 pm
Lunar-Heartbreak I know how you feel to want to correct people who are going about things in the wrong way but I have also learned that most who are the way you say are the most likely subject to change. It means they are probably not as serious about it (from experience of people saying they were wiccan then after studying more they realize that they are just pagan) That is why it may be good to leave them to their own devices until they understand what it is they really want to do. (Forgive me for being short earlier I was stressed out due to being frustrated with my boyfriend and having to deal with children who don't know the meaning of the words 'stop running' *eye twitch*) I have a big heart, so I'm always the one extending my hand to try and help, and then people try to eat it .____. It's not a freaking Popsicle. It's okay. I'm blunter than normal because of retarded drama from Tuesday. .__.
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:34 pm
*busts out laughing at the popsicle comment* I think we have a lot in common then ^^'
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:35 pm
xLady Tsukiyox Lunar-Heartbreak I know how you feel to want to correct people who are going about things in the wrong way but I have also learned that most who are the way you say are the most likely subject to change. It means they are probably not as serious about it (from experience of people saying they were wiccan then after studying more they realize that they are just pagan) That is why it may be good to leave them to their own devices until they understand what it is they really want to do. (Forgive me for being short earlier I was stressed out due to being frustrated with my boyfriend and having to deal with children who don't know the meaning of the words 'stop running' *eye twitch*) I have a big heart, so I'm always the one extending my hand to try and help, and then people try to eat it .____. It's not a freaking Popsicle. It's okay. I'm blunter than normal because of retarded drama from Tuesday. .__. I feel I must apologize, too. I'm very stressed as I am helping my parents try to sell our house by the weekend. We just put it on the market today.
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:42 pm
Lunar-Heartbreak *busts out laughing at the popsicle comment* I think we have a lot in common then ^^' I'm serious. I try to be nice, extend the offer to help with information and they are all "omg you is troll" -bite- "You is ebil Christian" -bite bite- And I'm like...oi...stop biting me >.< -kicks them- For me, I ended up loosing a good friend over stupid crap. Apparently according to him I b***h over every single little thing, I'm a spoiled little b***h who needs to go back on her pills. Oh and he hopes I find a man who beats my a** just cause. I actually loved him a lot, and he loved me or so I thought. I don't know why he said the last bit might be a way to shut people out because he's dying from cancer, or he's ******** someone else. Or what I don't know. So I'm still hurting from it.
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:48 pm
*sad puppy eyes* that is horrible *hug*
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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:52 pm
Lunar-Heartbreak *sad puppy eyes* that is horrible *hug* -hugs- It is. I actually lost sleep Tuesday night because of him. First time I was worried about him... I'm still angry about it. Just ugh. Of all the things I could've done, he stops being my friend for the dumbest reason. .___.
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:25 am
xLady Tsukiyox Lunar-Heartbreak *busts out laughing at the popsicle comment* I think we have a lot in common then ^^' I'm serious. I try to be nice, extend the offer to help with information and they are all "omg you is troll" -bite- "You is ebil Christian" -bite bite- And I'm like...oi...stop biting me >.< -kicks them- For me, I ended up loosing a good friend over stupid crap. Apparently according to him I b***h over every single little thing, I'm a spoiled little b***h who needs to go back on her pills. Oh and he hopes I find a man who beats my a** just cause. I actually loved him a lot, and he loved me or so I thought. I don't know why he said the last bit might be a way to shut people out because he's dying from cancer, or he's ******** someone else. Or what I don't know. So I'm still hurting from it. I too must put my apology out there to you. I felt very insulted at what you typed because my tradition didn't follow under the list you provided and still doesn't. I feel I practice wicca, I was taught by an initiated wiccan high priestess about the reclaiming tradition and I stand by my title as wiccan but I can understand your frustrations as well and that you were trying to put real information out there. I have yet to be initiated but it is something I am working on. My teacher had offered me a spot in her coven but I felt like I would always be concidered a child in that group and I am most certainly not a child.
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Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:48 am
Fareru xLady Tsukiyox Lunar-Heartbreak *busts out laughing at the popsicle comment* I think we have a lot in common then ^^' I'm serious. I try to be nice, extend the offer to help with information and they are all "omg you is troll" -bite- "You is ebil Christian" -bite bite- And I'm like...oi...stop biting me >.< -kicks them- For me, I ended up loosing a good friend over stupid crap. Apparently according to him I b***h over every single little thing, I'm a spoiled little b***h who needs to go back on her pills. Oh and he hopes I find a man who beats my a** just cause. I actually loved him a lot, and he loved me or so I thought. I don't know why he said the last bit might be a way to shut people out because he's dying from cancer, or he's ******** someone else. Or what I don't know. So I'm still hurting from it. I too must put my apology out there to you. I felt very insulted at what you typed because my tradition didn't follow under the list you provided and still doesn't. I feel I practice wicca, I was taught by an initiated wiccan high priestess about the reclaiming tradition and I stand by my title as wiccan but I can understand your frustrations as well and that you were trying to put real information out there. I have yet to be initiated but it is something I am working on. My teacher had offered me a spot in her coven but I felt like I would always be concidered a child in that group and I am most certainly not a child. Reclaiming is a witch tradition or variation. It's not Wicca. But that's okay. There are witch traditions out there that do initiate witches but it's not Wicca. The Inner Court material containing initiations is oathbound, however from what we do know is that it's sexual in nature due to it being a fertility witch cult. So you would either have to stand skyclad or ritually naked, perform the five fold kiss on the hp or hps depending on your sex(which is more like a peck on the five different organs that make up the fertility cycle.) or something else. Wicca however is not for everyone, and the sexual rites, though they don't often include sexual intercourse but are sexual in nature, are what throws most people off. But that's okay. Again, Wicca is a priesthood. And it's not meant for everyone.
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Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:58 pm
Well, that was an interesting conversation/dispute there ladies.. sweatdrop
Anyways, I grew up hearing the phrase, "turn the other cheek, and do not take offense" Offense only builds negativity and heuristic pride (the bad pride). So please, be wise, and disregard others. However, I'm glad that everyone was strong and wanted to correct/defend/make better of the misunderstanding.
For myself, I'm a non-denomination Christian. Jesus Christ is my lord of all lords and saviour. My one and only God that I pray to, however, there ARE other gods, goddesses, but by my choice, and my faith I don't worship or pray to them. Though they are great beings, just not for me. It bothers me when people can say they believe in a God, but not believe in others. Just not raised that way to harm, or disrespect others beliefs. Sometimes, a tongue should not move and words should not be spoken by people who are too close-minded and disrespectful. Not saying that anyone here is- but just expressing.
Anyhoo. I love you all. Now, go eat some cookies.
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:40 am
iManga Well, that was an interesting conversation/dispute there ladies.. sweatdrop Anyways, I grew up hearing the phrase, "turn the other cheek, and do not take offense" Offense only builds negativity and heuristic pride (the bad pride). So please, be wise, and disregard others. However, I'm glad that everyone was strong and wanted to correct/defend/make better of the misunderstanding. For myself, I'm a non-denomination Christian. Jesus Christ is my lord of all lords and saviour. My one and only God that I pray to, however, there ARE other gods, goddesses, but by my choice, and my faith I don't worship or pray to them. Though they are great beings, just not for me. It bothers me when people can say they believe in a God, but not believe in others. Just not raised that way to harm, or disrespect others beliefs. Sometimes, a tongue should not move and words should not be spoken by people who are too close-minded and disrespectful. Not saying that anyone here is- but just expressing. Anyhoo. I love you all. Now, go eat some cookies. Nicole you are amazing, thank you. Love you lot's
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Celtic Brigid Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:26 am
I didn't want to get into this when I was first told about this situation but I was having trouble sleeping so I am deciding to put my two cents in. First I am not in anyway saying that what you were told is wrong but what I am saying is that it is not right for anyone to say that other people are wrong because they call themselves Wiccan.
Wicca is the study and practice of witchcraft, a celebration and honoring of what we have. Yes that includes fertility... of all things. Its not just about sex... Its about energy and the feeling of empowerment.
"Without experiencing the Wiccan Mysteries properly, you will always lack the proper context to understand the orthopraxy of Wicca." ... "If you run across someone who says they were initiated by someone of the same sex as them, it was not a valid Wiccan initiation." again that is the option of a traditional way... it is not right for anyone to say that because someone has not had a certain experience with other certain people that their experiences should not be counted at all. We all take our own journeys to find who we are. One of those aspects is religion, some choose not to have one and others do... and sometimes the way in finding that religion alters the way they see things and feel about things so how can one say that people will lack the proper context to understand it if they have the passion to learn and have experienced something profound and life altering to make them turn to Wicca.
I also don't believe that there is no such thing as a solitary witch. It started somewhere and at some point in the beginning someone had to have practice on their own. And then now those who have been taught the craft but don't want to belong to a coven still practice. I have been known to practice on my own because I did not want to belong to my grandma's coven.
I do believe though that you have to be at a right age to practice. My mom was very strict on not teaching me until I was old enough to handle it no matter how ready I told her I was. I'm grateful and understand her decision but to say that teenagers and even 20 year old's are not ready for that kind of commitment is a little harsh. Yes some people cant handle it and its not right for everyone but like everything else people take to things differently. That being said you have also said "You need to have a stable life, under your own authority, and being responsible for your own self. This is on all levels - mental, physical, and emotional. The changes initiation brings will rock the foundation of a person's life" which I somewhat agree with... yes it changes your life and yes you need to know a little about your self and your wants but a lot of the time people come to a religion to find a sense of stability and that includes Wicca. People need to believe in something and more often then not people find that thing during a distress or life changing events, so again why tell them their wrong?
But I get what you are saying you don't care what other people are practicing as long as they don't call it Wicca. But again we are all practicing a form of Witchcraft, so I don't believe there is any harm in saying you practice Wicca.
I am 21 and have been taught by my Mom, my aunt and my grandma about Wicca, 2 of which were initiated and I believe what they have taught me: Its all about intent...
So if there is no harm in it why should it matter
Again sorry for the rant but I couldn't sleep... but on a curious note I was wondering what your initial religion is? Your Age? and how you came upon this info? if you don't mind me asking...
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:25 am
There is a such thing as a solitary witch. There is no such thing as a solitary Wiccan. Wiccan and Witch are not interchangable terms. A witch is someone who practices witchcraft, however you do not to be pagan or Wiccan to be a witch. You can be an atheistic witch, a Christian witch, a Jewish witch, etc.
Initiation isn't an "option" it's a requirement of Wicca. Again it's a priesthood. Would it be okay for me to read a book on Catholic Priesthood, and claim myself a Catholic Priest without going through the necessary qualifications and tutelage? Chances are no.
Again what I said is that Wicca is a priesthood. With being a priest or priestess, you need to at least dedicate certain aspects of your life to the Lord and Lady of the Isles. This isn't something a 14 year can undertake. Hell it's something most 20 year olds can undertake. The names of the Lord and Lady of the Isles, the God and Goddess of Wicca, are oathbound. Chances are what you're worshipping isn't those deities. To get to known name is through the initiations and experiencing the mysteries. Again the core of Wicca is not worship or belief, that is necessary for orthodoxy but it is the practice of rituals, which is necessary for orthopraxy.
Again Wicca and Witchcraft ARE NOT interchangeable. You can be of any religion, or no religion in fact and practice witchcraft. Wicca is reserved for those who have gone through the initiation and earned the title. All Wiccans are Witches but not all Witches are Wiccan. Just like All Wiccans are Pagan but not all Pagans are Wiccan.
What is their initation lineage, what tradition did they initate in, and what age did they initiate in? Also you can't be taught Wicca, necessarily. You can be taught the outer court material, however even that is more along the lines of neo-paganism. If they taught you the inner court material, then I hate to say it but they broke their oaths. According to the Ardanes, they will be "sent to the Christian Hell" * Hell isn't even a place. It's a metaphorical mishmash of Gehenna, Sheol and Tartorous illustrating how separation from YHVH is a really really really bad thing. Gardner used it for his laws and his religion to illustrate how breaking ones oaths is very very very bad. What it causes is separation of the Goddess. Which is also very very very bad.
I'm 19. I was brought up as a Catholic, went through baptism, reconciliation, and communion. I never did my confirmation so I can't really call myself a Catholic. However as of last year, I decided to stop flip flopping between Christianity and Paganism (switching between the two) and decided with Paganism. So I'm an eclectic neo-pagan biggrin I did claim Wicca at 17, but that was because I listened to my friend, who really didn't know what she was talking about, two years later. I came across this information from two lineaged Wiccans. Both are much older than me. One is a 3rd degree Alexandrian high priestess. The other is a first degree Gardenain initiate. As well as a few Seekers. One of which is in the process of doing the necessary tutelage for his initiation.
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Celtic Brigid Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:08 pm
I am in my 20's
I have study a lot of things since I was little from my mother and grandmother
I have been through a lot of things in my life... things you could only imagine... things that have brought me close to my religion, things that have put my faith in my religion to the test
In return I have been given amazing gifts and experiences... things again that you could never imagine, things that I get to share with some very important people in my life.
I have come to a lot of understanding of Wicca and no one is going to say that I am not Wiccan because I was not initiated by the right people...
So we will just have to agree to disagree...
I apologize if that sounds harsh but its how I feel...
And I just hope you understand no one is attacking you, we just feel there was a better way of expressing yourself then just saying... you are wrong you cant call yourselves that.
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:21 am
Celtic Brigid I am in my 20's
I have study a lot of things since I was little from my mother and grandmother
I have been through a lot of things in my life... things you could only imagine... things that have brought me close to my religion, things that have put my faith in my religion to the test
In return I have been given amazing gifts and experiences... things again that you could never imagine, things that I get to share with some very important people in my life.
I have come to a lot of understanding of Wicca and no one is going to say that I am not Wiccan because I was not initiated by the right people...
So we will just have to agree to disagree...
I apologize if that sounds harsh but its how I feel...
And I just hope you understand no one is attacking you, we just feel there was a better way of expressing yourself then just saying... you are wrong you cant call yourselves that. I never claimed that people were attacking me lol.
However you and everyone has to realize that Wicca is not a title you can claim because supposedly you have family members who may have practiced it, which is a little far fetched because it's 60 years old, or because others told you to, or whatever reason.
You can call your practice any other name. Make a name up, it's your tradition, personalize it. Don't use a title that bears no meaning to you like Wicca. It is not your's to steal. That's like calling yourself a Christian when you don't even worship Christ because it sounds cool. Or a Shintoist when you aren't even of the Land of Nippon. It's not right, and chances are you would yell at those people for claiming those things. So why do it? Because it sounds cool?
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