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the only garchonp that waz ever hard to defeat for me is cynthia's garchomp (and ive fought alot of garchomps)

To be perfectly honest, Cynthia's Garchomp is nothing compared to some others out there. It has a formidible set-up, yes, but she is a cpu. A human trainer gets very technical with the moveset and stat locations.

I'm not going to jump into this arguement. I'm having more fun just observing. I've already decided on my vote and I'm sticking to it.

If you guys thought Cynthia's was hard to fight, you've definitely not encountered any of the real 'Chomps the main bulk of this debate is talking about. Cynthia's 'Chomp is child's play compared to some that I've encountered, then again, the metagame as a whole is ridiculously more grandeur than the in-game.

Okay, so that's one (very limiting) counter on the list?

...That leaves so much room for originality in the OU tier. -.- Most Pokémon not in the Uber tier have a list of half a dozen counters, leaving room for trainers to pick and choose how they're going to counter the main threats of the tier. With only one named counter, that means we'd see an influx of Garchomps... and just as many CB Weaviles will be packed to counter the threat.

That's two out of six team members that will be incredibly commonplace.

You've actually helped make my argument for me- with only one effective counter, you've bolstered my unoriginality argument further.

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Cormini: But of course- there are very limited arguments on either side, and counters are the main point of contention. A Pokémon with no counters is one that doesn't belong in OU at all- throw it into the only group whose stats ensure that can deal with such a threat- namely, Ubers.

Of course, seeing as its base stats are 600, placing it just below every Uber in the game except Darkrai, Shaymin, and Deoxys and matching/beating every non-Uber in total stats (with the exception of Slaking) in addition to its resistance to Stealth Rock, access to Swords Dance and more than 100 base speed (a combination which no other Pokémon can boast), is it any wonder that counters come up in arguments?

No other Pokémon in the metagame can boast that it can run a Stealth Rock resistance, more than 100 Base Speed, HP, and Attack, carry Swords Dance, match Swampert's defensive capabilities, and can sidestep the Evasion clause with Sand Stream in effect.

It's also one of the only Pokémon that can claim to have only one definitive counter, and that's only if said counter restricts themselves to one attack, leaving them wide open for a revenge kill.

Garchomp for Ubers.

And here I thought the last post I made before my previous one in this thread was going to be the last point that had any sure relevance... I suppose it can't be helped.

@Kurikitty: Before I try to sum up my rebuttal, I would just like to say that I admire both your passion and conviction for this debate. Kudos friend. smile

Now... where to begin... It seems we are all stuck on the idea that every pokemon in the OU meta game has to have in one form or another complete counter, when that is far from the truth. Using heatran's counters as an example, one could say any bulky water type can counter it, assuming that heatran doesn't have grass knot or HP grass. Also, blissey or snorlax shouldn't have too much trouble as well, provided they are not nailed with a explosion or just a mix sweeper set. If we are going to go on the assumptions of what if... then we can assume any pokemon can be countered as well as being able to counter for-see able set ups. (point to my previous post, weather effects to counter sandstorm. Also also to note, if one wants to point out how moot it is to counter sandstorm with any other weather effects, one might look to why the OU meta game is littered with pokes using rapid spin.)

I agree, with Garchomp's access to a vast movepool, the ability and the stats, he is very formidable, especially in the Uber tier. Though, pokemon including both Salamance and Dragonite, both spool a 600 combined amount in their stats as well, also being able to be completely immune to both toxic spikes and spikes ( mind you 2 moves, compared to just stealth rock) and having access to a large movepool, yet still not being deemed Uber? Yes we can go into the counters again, but then again, we are debating on what ifs...

The point I am trying to make with this post and many of my previous posts before is, despite garchomp being powerful, there are still viable counters, whether it means both stopping his set up, or straight out killing it.

If you also want to talk about the meta game scene and say before garchomp's ban, and stat how unoriginal many of the teams were, just look at the scene now after his ban. Most competitive battlers still use the same pokes over and over for their potential roles, including salamance, Blissey, Cressilia, Dragonite, metagross, Scizor, Skarmory, Weavile, Etc. With that being said, it really makes no difference whether he stays or goes. The competitive community will continue to use these pokes regardless whether he is banned or not.

And just to be a little nit picky.. This may not be as accurate as say, Marriland's forums, but our Gym Wi-fi league has used garchomp in its OU tiers since it was banned, and to this day, not even a fourth of the registered teams are filled with garchomp.

One last tid bit before I end this post, for the record, I am not fond of garchomp either, I just like to debate, especially a losing side. razz

Your sarcasm is duly noted friend.

I say lets all drop the use of the OU tier pokemon and all just play with the UU tier bracket.

This shouldn't even be up to debate. Garchomp has no true counter, therefore he is uber.

That's all there is to it.

Edit - I just read the comments on this thread on the people that think it should be OU, and god it's just sad.