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| What are you willing to do? |
| Something |
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58% |
[ 7 ] |
| Anything |
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41% |
[ 5 ] |
| Nothing |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 12 |
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:48 pm
*Has enough delusions and conspiracy theories to cover the entire church congregation* sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:35 pm
Here is some food for the pirahna... what do we think about the Governor of Louisiana's order for her soldiers to shoot to kill in New Orleans?
*Leans back taking a handfull of chocolates*
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:03 pm
I''m not sure what I think. It''s just too crazy down there. Looters are definately making the relief effort so much more difficult. If people aren''t going to let the authorities do what they need to, than I''m afraid swift action does need to take place.
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Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:16 pm
Fiddlers Green Here is some food for the pirahna... what do we think about the Governor of Louisiana's order for her soldiers to shoot to kill in New Orleans? *Leans back taking a handfull of chocolates* I'm not going to pretend that I'm comfortable with it. I don't like the idea of turning New Orleans into an effective war zone. Right now it's conjuring images of the race riots of the 60s and machine guns placed around Capitol Hill. (And riots are exactly what lethal force could manage to spur in a city where the remaining population is already on edge.) I don't even want to think about what could happen in the event of a mistaken shooting of an innocent, which is a very real possibility. On the other hand, I recognize the need to restore some semblance of order in that city. Given that we've had reports of people shooting at aid workers, the situation in New Orleans is clearly deteriorating. My consul, if I were in a position to give it, would have been to wait on the 'shoot to kill' orders until we were certain that less aggressive couldn't do the job.
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:29 pm
*sips some port from a glass*
How a nation reacts to a crisis is of paramont importance... why did things reach this point, and how could it have been prevented... we must be prepared, and know what must have been done differently, to prevent this sort of thing in the future... to turn a military unit, on your own people... crying
The issue of poor levies and a faulty evacuation plan have been mentioned, do we have any good links, or ideas?
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:58 am
Fiddlers Green Here is some food for the pirahna... what do we think about the Governor of Louisiana's order for her soldiers to shoot to kill in New Orleans? *Leans back taking a handfull of chocolates* *Walks in and grabs a glass of whiskey* D'ya mind? *sits. Legs crossed* Wasn't it known in advance that the storm was intense and headed our way? Wasn't it known that there were thousands with no means to evacuate? And to add my two paranoid bits: What about the first shooter? One man on a rooftop with a rifle stops the American military from aiding tens of thousands of our own people? Is that right or have I missed something?
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:36 am
Well, the storm was seen in advance... but it's corse was mis-predicted... when the evacuation order was given... dozens of thousands of the over one million residents of the New Orleans area either couldn't, or wouldn't leave.... the evacuation was poorly organized, and even more poorly enforced. That's not even mentioning the levie problems....
Furthermore... the shooter was firing at a helicopter transporting supplies... having been in the military, I can say that DoD (Department of Defense) policy is to offer assistance only until hostilitiesare initiated against us... We are a military... not a humanitarian organization.... our primary training is to win wars... not play rescue rangers... So, when our help is snubbed, we cease to offer it... also, the question of whether a number of soldiers, back from a location where they were confronted with hostiles in civilian garb, would react in a violently paranoid manner was a valid concern.
Moral of the story... we don't have sufficient humanitarian, and disaster relief organization and preparation.... and we sent the wrong people to deal with this situation.
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:59 am
Fiddlers Green Moral of the story... we don't have sufficient humanitarian, and disaster relief organization and preparation.... and we sent the wrong people to deal with this situation. And, if there's any justice in this world, heads will roll for it.
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:38 am
Tangled Up In Blue And, if there's any justice in this world, heads will roll for it. Figuratively... they might... but it's iffy at best. Personally, I'm more concerned with preventing this sort of FUBAR in the future... which is what we are all here for. *sips at his port* So... the lessons we have learned are that our internal, disaster response proceedures are woefully insufficient... and, that our evacuation, and safety mandates are not enforced strongly enough... so how do we make these more effective?
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:05 am
Fiddlers Green So... the lessons we have learned are that our internal, disaster response proceedures are woefully insufficient... and, that our evacuation, and safety mandates are not enforced strongly enough... so how do we make these more effective? *furiously stubs out a cigarette before lighting another* This problem wasn't the result of some ingrained flaw in the American system though. The woeful lack of response can be traced to a much more immediate source. This administration and its allies have been hostile to the idea of using government to serve the pubic from day one. They've denigrated the federal system as being a problem rather than a solution to problems. Given that, is it any wonder that when we needed the federal government to step up it wasn't there? Since its integration into the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA's usefulness as a natural disaster response agency has been in decline. It doesn't help that the head of that agency was utterly unqualified to hold such a position. The U.S.S. Bataan, which has six operating rooms, hospital beds, and the capacity to produce 100,000 gallons of fresh water a day, has been floating in the Gulf Coast since last Monday. The fact that it wasn't ordered in to aid New Orleans is in and of itself a massive failure. And I'm not even going to touch on cuts in levee maintenance funding. This isn't the kind of systemic problem that we're trying to address here; this is a failure of the neo-conservative ideology. The best way to prevent this in the future is to unseat a dangerous, anti-government ideology from the American political scene.
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:49 pm
*takes another sip of port* So, you think that our current disaster response problems are more an issue with the current holder of the cheif office, and cronies, rather than a largely impotent response system... Although, the current organization can be laid at the feet of the current administration (and legislation, for their negligence, and even capitulation in giving the executive office so much authourity)... I wonder if the problem is more in the system, or who is at the helm... even if the current helmsman did run her upon the reefs, is the ship still seaworthy, there the helmsman to be replaced... I think the damage is too sever... but I'm willing to hear argument to the contrary. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:51 pm
Fiddlers Green I think the damage is too sever... but I'm willing to hear argument to the contrary. 3nodding I think that the damage is too severe too. I think the system needs to be hauled out of the water and placed in dry dock for repairs. I don't think that we can achieve that with our current captain though.
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Although the current topic is very interesting, I would like to bring something else to the table.
With the recent death of the Supreme Court Justice, and the retirement of Sandra Day O'Conner, George Bush now gets to appoint 2 new Supreme Court Justices. This could affect America's political outlook long after his administration is gone. What do you think of his nomination of Shepard? Heck, what do you think of this whole conundrum period? And it's possible he may even get to nominate a third before this is all over.
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:12 am
The Supreme Court has ever been impotent in actually controlling the government, they strike down a state law, yet have proven incapable of stopping federal legislature effecctively. With the current consolidation of power under the Executive office, the Supreme Court will continue to dwindle in power, until they are no more than an advisory body, or a body for controlling states. This isn't a recent trend. Andrew Jackson John Marshall(then Chief Justice) has made his decision; now let him enforce it! And Franklin D. Roosevelt walked all over their condemnations of his New Deal. They struck down most of the Patriot Act, yet still the laws and proceedures it created remain. The Supreme Court is currently inconsequential, on a federal level, let the President appoint an entirely new series of justices, so long as the court lacks power, it will only serve for PR. rolleyes
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Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:31 pm
So, how does the Judicial System gain the power it was suppost to have all along?
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