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Check out one of our Veil threads for a total throwdown of discussion, but it's the magical plastiwrap that keeps the world of magic/the dead/astral/alternate possibilities from being here at the same time. True, you can say magic is natural, but I'm gonna say nothing can be explained completely. Nothing has been so far, and I don't think it ever will be. We can't even ever be really sure about what we've found out so far.

I'm sure if we shifted our paradigm about what we're doing, more people would like it. If we called it something like Calling Down the Spirit World, or Releasing the Astral, or Freeing the Energy of Magic, doesn't sound as anarchistic as Tear Down that Damn Wall. But same basic idea. I say we play with it. We learn what we can. I know the line where we throw up our hands and say, "we shouldn't ******** with this," and we aren't nearly there yet.

Of course then there's the 'I made or helped make half of them and know every damn loophole we left open' argument for myself when that card is played against me Josh.

I agree with Dorian. We don't know. We don't even know if it exist. And believe me if I can't feel it it's hidden pretty damn well (enough to warrant the 'don't mess with' policy) or doesn't exist.

And yes I TOTALLY condone ripping apart something no one understands possibly causing damage to the lives of billions to 'make it more exciting'. The morals of bored people astound me.

I think the reason why we don't read about simple acts of magic when we open a book on magic is because we already know how to do them, we don't need to be taught. We're taught as a child how to use a fork to move food to mouth, just like we're taught as children that one added to one creates two. You wouldn't open a book on advanced calculus and expect to be taught the orders of operation, you should know them by now. Books that we buy on magic, just as books that we buy on any other subject, cannot always be comprehensive. If any book in the world were truly comprehensive, the book would never ever end.

And, just as an additional thought... Maybe we should have books that teach us to recognize daily acts (like breathing, preparing food, etc) as magic. Maybe then we'd value life more... Maybe not, but maybe we would.

And to respond to the other comment left to me...
Why do we assume that other worlds aren't interacting with our own? Just because we cannot currently perceive them doesn't mean that they're not. It doesn't mean they are, but how can we assume that they're not?

Also, ghosts interact with our world all the time. And if you can't ever really understand anything, then why bother trying?

If I recall, Post Modern Magick by Dunn mentions in the start of the book how something like stirring a cup of coffee with a spoon can be a magic act(ivity). Though he goes on to say how one would need to have correspondant meanings associated with whats involved, activities and objects and such. I've seen similar things about breathing in an aura book, and intaking food or drink in shamanistic books. I'm inclined to leave the meanings and depths of the actions to the devices of the one who contemplates it rather then me tossing in my half-assed cents.

I'm inclined to believe 'ghosts' and 'otherworlds' interact with ours, like I'm inclined to believe other things, that doesn't mean I'm right necissarily, or wrong. You're starting to grasp my nihilistic ideas though. I figure other worlds existing and interacting is as likely as observations being selection and illusionary in actuality.

I'm not saying it's pointless, I'm not really claiming anything about that, I'm asking what the point is. Why do you feel that you need to try to find out something if you can't know it's true? That's all I was asking. *shrugs* My personal opinions have actually only come into play about the nature of magic, everything else is just hypothetical.

Yeah I worked really hard to break the barriers I'd created in my mind as a child only to have all the work ruined when too much stress sent me into minor depression. I've regained less than half my former abilities but my knowledge is so much more than it was that I don't care. Power is nothing without something to use it for and I'm more comfortable not having it so I don't need to fear misusing it. Which is why I'm so against people who want to break the 'Veil' if it exist. You just can't make that choice. It's as bad as Hitler deciding all the Jews should die. Or the Christian's Crusades. Or the Moorish invasion. Or Islamic Radicals and their super-Jihad. It's making a decision for other people that you have no right to make.

Not really. You used enough 'ifs' for it to be fine.
And I know I was harsh but I was comparing the decision made not the act itself. Hitler DECIDED for the Jews that they wouldn't live. The Pope DECIDED for the Saracens that they didn't deserve the 'Holy Land' and he did. The I-Radicals DECIDED that their victims don't deserve to live. If someone destroys the 'Veil' if it exist then they are DECIDING for everyone in the world and that's just wrong. Even if it only makes the weird a bit weirder it's still changing something.

i take it you've played halo3? rofl
(and shows how much you know it was the logic and moral of someone who has a mental disability razz shows what you know)

assuming this doesn't 'break the rules', i really hate people like you who assume your better then everyone else without any idea of someones abilities. for all you know, you could have the shittiest ability magick and psionics has ever seen on this earth and just think your 'so damn awesome guy'.


truthfully, i don't really care what you have to say what you will say or what you have said. some more food for thought perhaps? what if it exists and its so weak from gradual corrosion that everyone is unable to sense it.
or perhaps its not even powerful or ******** with able to the point we cant sense it?
what if it exists and we just plain old cant sense it?

ill quote someone, (think its someone from the guild, but maybe not.)
"your not special, your a part of the same decomposing heap of organic material as the rest of us."

ill even give you a chance to redeem yourself right now, because you powers are so damn great. if your such hot s**t at psionics, magick, or anything for that matter, ill give you 3 days to figure out two things. my middle name, and what is on top of the dresser in my room at the head of my bed. s**t, ill put it on top of all the other stuff there.

don't pull the 'it's impossible s**t' either, because pyrokin had a very similar experiment in which someone who 'wasn't as talented as yourself' could get the answer.

middle name is optional if not impossible, but your such hot s**t you might as well use that /tiny/ bit of energy to find that out too.

so please, unless you can back up that your ability is as big as your ******** ahead and impress me. im writing down the time right now, and two days from now unless you get the right answer, your a bullshitting bullshitter.

EDIT: yes, they are curse words. if anyone finds them offense, ill take them out.