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 Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:00 pm
Combat Chuckles Lethkhar That's a matter of opinion. It's a philosophical question; there is no right answer. There is a right answer, and someday we'll both know what it is. Quote: In my personal opinion, I believe that a judge has every right to interpret rules and laws, not enforce them nor establish them. There is too much bias in that case for there to be any justice. Enforce: Executive branch. Establish: Legislative branch. So, if you make rules for your children, say "Be home by 10 or your grounded", you can't enforce them unless you get a third involved that will enforce them for you? Well, whether you like it or not there is an outside party. If your punishment for your children for being late was death instead of grounding, the government would get involved with all three branches. I would be ok with God's administration if He had an objective overseer like that. Quote: Quote: So how do you propose they arrive at the answer "Jesus" instead of the myriad of other, might I add, more plausible answers without any "help" from other people? If you have no "help" from other people, sure it'll be hard to come to know Jesus, but not impossible. Again, we're back to "Nature CAN not WILL, lead you to God." So for some people, whether they go to Heaven or not is a complete matter of chance. Quote: Quote: Does that make atheists against God, or merely unacquainted with Him? Depends on the Atheist. That it does. Quote: Quote: This does not refute my argument. Sorry, that was only meant to show why Christs sacrifice is so important to Christians. Not being a Christian, that of course mean absolutely nothing to you. No, it means something to me. I've just heard several billion times. I have nothing against Christ. I actually respect the man quite a bit. It's his fan club that bugs me. I've actually cried at several depictions of Christ's sacrifice. The story of the New Testament is awesome. Quote: Quote: 1 Corinthians 1:18-2518 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: “ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a] 20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. I understand the idea of relative wisdom in comparison to God, but I just find the statement that He will destroy wisdom and understanding such a strange way to word it. He certainly doesn't encourage discovery.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:34 pm
On a side note, Lethkar, which is your favorite gospel? Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:55 am
GuardianAngel44 On a side note, Lethkar, which is your favorite gospel? Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John? Right now, I think it's Luke. It's by far the most objective of the canonical gospels. It also has a lot of good stuff. Mark's cool too, I guess. It made for a couple really good rock operas, anyway.
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:17 am
Lethkhar Well, whether you like it or not there is an outside party. If your punishment for your children for being late was death instead of grounding, the government would get involved with all three branches. I would be ok with God's administration if He had an objective overseer like that. God is all three branches. But if we can't agree on that we're not going to get anywhere. Quote: So for some people, whether they go to Heaven or not is a complete matter of chance. We've been here a couple times already and I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this either. That it does...indeed?^_^ Quote: No, it means something to me. I've just heard several billion times. I have nothing against Christ. I actually respect the man quite a bit. It's his fan club that bugs me. I've actually cried at several depictions of Christ's sacrifice. The story of the New Testament is awesome. Sorry, I made an assumption and I was wrong. Quote: I understand the idea of relative wisdom in comparison to God, but I just find the statement that He will destroy wisdom and understanding such a strange way to word it. He certainly doesn't encourage discovery. If you read that again, it doesn't say he is going to destroy wisdom and understanding, only the wisdom and understanding 'of the wise and prudent'. Meaning, the wisdom and understanding of those who are wise or understanding in their own eyes. And I don't know of anywhere that suggests he doesn't encourage seeking the wisdom or understanding of God. In fact the Psalms and Proverbs are full of verses about seeking wisdom and understanding. Proverbs 3 speaks about it. Here if you would like to read a bit. We could probably go on many more pages saying the same things over and over again about the actual topic of the thread, but I'm content to agree to disagree if you are?
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:38 pm
Combat Chuckles Lethkhar Well, whether you like it or not there is an outside party. If your punishment for your children for being late was death instead of grounding, the government would get involved with all three branches. I would be ok with God's administration if He had an objective overseer like that. God is all three branches. But if we can't agree on that we're not going to get anywhere. No, I agree with you there. That's the problem. Quote: Quote: So for some people, whether they go to Heaven or not is a complete matter of chance. We've been here a couple times already and I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this either. Apparently not. I'm not sure what you're not understanding.. Quote: Quote: I understand the idea of relative wisdom in comparison to God, but I just find the statement that He will destroy wisdom and understanding such a strange way to word it. He certainly doesn't encourage discovery. If you read that again, it doesn't say he is going to destroy wisdom and understanding, only the wisdom and understanding 'of the wise and prudent'. Meaning, the wisdom and understanding of those who are wise or understanding in their own eyes. And I don't know of anywhere that suggests he doesn't encourage seeking the wisdom or understanding of God. In fact the Psalms and Proverbs are full of verses about seeking wisdom and understanding. Proverbs 3 speaks about it. Here if you would like to read a bit. We could probably go on many more pages saying the same things over and over again about the actual topic of the thread, but I'm content to agree to disagree if you are? Oh, that was the understanding all along. That's debate, my friend.
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:49 am
Lethkhar Quote: We've been here a couple times already and I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this either. Apparently not. I'm not sure what you're not understanding.. Yea, that made me chuckle mrgreen Quote: Oh, that was the understanding all along. That's debate, my friend. True, but debating beliefs is a difficult thing for either party involved and often resolved without any real change in the beliefs of those parties. Hence why I'd rather not go another 100 pages of saying the same thing.
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:36 pm
Combat Chuckles Quote: Oh, that was the understanding all along. That's debate, my friend. True, but debating beliefs is a difficult thing for either party involved and often resolved without any real change in the beliefs of those parties. Hence why I'd rather not go another 100 pages of saying the same thing. Ah, but the purpose of debate is not to change your opponent's opinion. That's what I was saying there.
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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:01 am
Quote: True, but debating beliefs is a difficult thing for either party involved and often resolved without any real change in the beliefs of those parties. Hence why I'd rather not go another 100 pages of saying the same thing. Quote: Ah, but the purpose of debate is not to change your opponent's opinion. That's what I was saying there. True again. I should have said "arguing" beliefs, which is only slightly different than debate.
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:31 pm
ryuu_chan Lyneun Maybe you could paraphrase? I have little time to do much, with work going as it is. sweatdrop The basic argument was, do people who have never heard of Jesus, ever and never will, go to hell? One of the sides is yes, because nature should lead them to a creator, and the other is no, because how on earth would a human mind comprehend that nature = God? Discuss. xd That happened with Oprah not too long ago. She said she believed that people who had never heard of God and never would would go to heaven. And someone called her a non believer because they're ignorant. I personally put it into this scripture: Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:05 pm
PiercedPixie2 ryuu_chan Lyneun Maybe you could paraphrase? I have little time to do much, with work going as it is. sweatdrop The basic argument was, do people who have never heard of Jesus, ever and never will, go to hell? One of the sides is yes, because nature should lead them to a creator, and the other is no, because how on earth would a human mind comprehend that nature = God? Discuss. xd That happened with Oprah not too long ago. She said she believed that people who had never heard of God and never would would go to heaven. And someone called her a non believer because they're ignorant. I personally put it into this scripture: Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
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Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:08 pm
How can you use nature in your faith? I don't really get it... sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:49 am
The Original Jbird
How can you use nature in your faith? I don't really get it... sweatdrop
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