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 Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:04 pm
Vincente Nite Lewis The Iron Magus C:>
Yeah, FFX was so anti-religion, it wasn't even funny. XD
AND THEN THEY RUINED EVERYTHING WITH X-2!
WHY? WHY DID YOU DO IT? AAARRRRRGHHH!
*dies* Oh, I just started reading that thing in Spones - I think you should find less extremist sources. Haysoo Christo... I agree about Spones. The other article is worth reading though. A lot better. SNOPES! SNOPES SNOPES SNOPES! Not Spones! XP I've always found Snopes to be pretty level-headed and fair. Maybe they got emotional on this issue. Maybe they just wanted to put the issue to rest. Who knows. In any case, if the quotes they... quoted are true, then there's not much room to argue.
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:07 pm
The Iron Magus Well, my Daemon is Aleone, the Lynx. I'm solitary, assertive, modest, spontaneous, and shy. Apparently. I also agree that Golden Compass is a better name. XP I'd think "Northern Lights" was some sort of boring everyday chick flick set in new york, or something. 0_o And I do agree with the ability to separate fact from fiction. Though, I guess that isn't congruent with being raised to read a certain book and automatically believe that everything in it is a solid fact. Who knows, you might do the same with another. As far as it being anti-christian, I wouldn't believe everything you read. I haven't read it myself, but it seems a bit flawed just to believe that it's anti-anything without seeing it with your own eyes first. *edit*Snopes dot com has even done an article on this. I am surprised. http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp Well, as far as I know Snopes is fairly trustworthy. So, is the book anti-Christian? Perhaps. If so, I say: Bravo. I couldn't be prouder that we live in a society that allows such free expression of views. In times past, such a book would have been burned by the government, and it certainly wouldn't have become a best-seller. The way I see it, if your faith is so weak that this book will destroy it, then it wasn't much of anything to begin with. But it's great that those with ideas different from the majority have the chance to speak their mind. If C.S. Lewis, whose books I really enjoyed, can write novels imbued with his ideas of religion and spirituality, then anyone else should be able to, as well. I am intrigued enough to read these books myself, even if they might not be as radical as they seem. http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/47131/ So it's ok to be anti-Christian? What if these books were anti-Muslim? Or anti-Wiccan? Or anti-Black? Or anti-gay? Why is it ok for people to hate one religous group (Christians) but if anything is said that could be slightly concieved as negative about any other group (religious or otherwise), it's the worst thing ever?
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:24 pm
Eruravenne The Iron Magus Well, my Daemon is Aleone, the Lynx. I'm solitary, assertive, modest, spontaneous, and shy. Apparently. I also agree that Golden Compass is a better name. XP I'd think "Northern Lights" was some sort of boring everyday chick flick set in new york, or something. 0_o And I do agree with the ability to separate fact from fiction. Though, I guess that isn't congruent with being raised to read a certain book and automatically believe that everything in it is a solid fact. Who knows, you might do the same with another. As far as it being anti-christian, I wouldn't believe everything you read. I haven't read it myself, but it seems a bit flawed just to believe that it's anti-anything without seeing it with your own eyes first. *edit*Snopes dot com has even done an article on this. I am surprised. http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp Well, as far as I know Snopes is fairly trustworthy. So, is the book anti-Christian? Perhaps. If so, I say: Bravo. I couldn't be prouder that we live in a society that allows such free expression of views. In times past, such a book would have been burned by the government, and it certainly wouldn't have become a best-seller. The way I see it, if your faith is so weak that this book will destroy it, then it wasn't much of anything to begin with. But it's great that those with ideas different from the majority have the chance to speak their mind. If C.S. Lewis, whose books I really enjoyed, can write novels imbued with his ideas of religion and spirituality, then anyone else should be able to, as well. I am intrigued enough to read these books myself, even if they might not be as radical as they seem. http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/47131/ So it's ok to be anti-Christian? What if these books were anti-Muslim? Or anti-Wiccan? Or anti-Black? Or anti-gay? Why is it ok for people to hate one religous group (Christians) but if anything is said that could be slightly concieved as negative about any other group (religious or otherwise), it's the worst thing ever?
It's the freedom of speech which is the positive thing.
Who are you (or anyone for that matter) to say what is right or wrong? To say that someone's view is right, better or more important that someone elses is usually a terrible thing.
Everyone is created equal and has the right to a view, if a book is firstly a novel and secondly the expression of a situation which is anti-gay, anti-straight, anti- black, anti-white, anti-America, Anti-England, Anti-BlueRaven990 or whatever it's ok for that view to be stated.
We're not saying the view is a correct one, we're saying the expression that it is there view is (as long as it is not acted upon). Why should someone hide their views just because someone else disagrees?
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:38 pm
BlueRaven990 Eruravenne So it's ok to be anti-Christian? What if these books were anti-Muslim? Or anti-Wiccan? Or anti-Black? Or anti-gay? Why is it ok for people to hate one religous group (Christians) but if anything is said that could be slightly concieved as negative about any other group (religious or otherwise), it's the worst thing ever?
It's the freedom of speech which is the positive thing.
Who are you (or anyone for that matter) to say what is right or wrong? To say that someone's view is right, better or more important that someone elses is usually a terrible thing.
Everyone is created equal and has the right to a view, if a book is firstly a novel and secondly the expression of a situation which is anti-gay, anti-straight, anti- black, anti-white, anti-America, Anti-England, Anti-BlueRaven990 or whatever it's ok for that view to be stated.
We're not saying the view is a correct one, we're saying the expression that it is there view is (as long as it is not acted upon). Why should someone hide their views just because someone else disagrees?So you would support a book or movie that was expressing hatred for gay people? Can you honestly say that if you were presented with such a book or movie that you would happily read/watch it and give it a good review because it was free speech? Or is that only if it was hidden inside a nice fantasy story? Edit: You shouldn't hide your views because someone else disagrees, but you also shouldn't expect everyone to readily accept your controversial views simply because they are controversial. If someone expresses hatred for me, I'm not going to smile and say "Good job!"
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:48 pm
Eruravenne BlueRaven990 Eruravenne So it's ok to be anti-Christian? What if these books were anti-Muslim? Or anti-Wiccan? Or anti-Black? Or anti-gay? Why is it ok for people to hate one religous group (Christians) but if anything is said that could be slightly concieved as negative about any other group (religious or otherwise), it's the worst thing ever?
It's the freedom of speech which is the positive thing.
Who are you (or anyone for that matter) to say what is right or wrong? To say that someone's view is right, better or more important that someone elses is usually a terrible thing.
Everyone is created equal and has the right to a view, if a book is firstly a novel and secondly the expression of a situation which is anti-gay, anti-straight, anti- black, anti-white, anti-America, Anti-England, Anti-BlueRaven990 or whatever it's ok for that view to be stated.
We're not saying the view is a correct one, we're saying the expression that it is there view is (as long as it is not acted upon). Why should someone hide their views just because someone else disagrees?So you would support a book or movie that was expressing hatred for gay people? Can you honestly say that if you were presented with such a book or movie that you would happily read/watch it and give it a good review because it was free speech? Or is that only if it was hidden inside a nice fantasy story? Edit: You shouldn't hide your views because someone else disagrees, but you also shouldn't expect everyone to readily accept your controversial views simply because they are controversial. If someone expresses hatred for me, I'm not going to smile and say "Good job!"
I wouldn't say I would support it to be honest, I'd treat it as any other book or film. And I would base my opinion on it entirely of the content, not on the views it projected. The views themselves are usually placed there to enhance a story or to make people think more about the story due to those views, and that can really help a book.
I'm not saying you have to be positive about a view or that you should accept them. I'm saying that you should allow people to express their views, respectfully of course. Seeing as views are only right or wrong in theory, an open mind is needed to stop oneself becoming unbalanced and wrong to all views but their own. Close minded views are often the cause of many conflicts big or small also.
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:53 pm
BlueRaven990 Eruravenne BlueRaven990 Eruravenne So it's ok to be anti-Christian? What if these books were anti-Muslim? Or anti-Wiccan? Or anti-Black? Or anti-gay? Why is it ok for people to hate one religous group (Christians) but if anything is said that could be slightly concieved as negative about any other group (religious or otherwise), it's the worst thing ever?
It's the freedom of speech which is the positive thing.
Who are you (or anyone for that matter) to say what is right or wrong? To say that someone's view is right, better or more important that someone elses is usually a terrible thing.
Everyone is created equal and has the right to a view, if a book is firstly a novel and secondly the expression of a situation which is anti-gay, anti-straight, anti- black, anti-white, anti-America, Anti-England, Anti-BlueRaven990 or whatever it's ok for that view to be stated.
We're not saying the view is a correct one, we're saying the expression that it is there view is (as long as it is not acted upon). Why should someone hide their views just because someone else disagrees?So you would support a book or movie that was expressing hatred for gay people? Can you honestly say that if you were presented with such a book or movie that you would happily read/watch it and give it a good review because it was free speech? Or is that only if it was hidden inside a nice fantasy story? Edit: You shouldn't hide your views because someone else disagrees, but you also shouldn't expect everyone to readily accept your controversial views simply because they are controversial. If someone expresses hatred for me, I'm not going to smile and say "Good job!"
I wouldn't say I would support it to be honest, I'd treat it as any other book or film. And I would base my opinion on it entirely of the content, not on the views it projected. The views themselves are usually placed there to enhance a story or to make people think more about the story due to those views, and that can really help a book.
I'm not saying you have to be positive about a view or that you should accept them. I'm saying that you should allow people to express their views, respectfully of course. Seeing as views are only right or wrong in theory, an open mind is needed to stop oneself becoming unbalanced and wrong to all views but their own. Close minded views are often the cause of many conflicts big or small also.I'm not closed-minded. But I don't believe right and wrong are quite as vague as most people today think. The only reason people say that is because they want to be able to do whatever they want without consequences. But I don't want to continue this because it's just going to spiral into stupidity just like everything else...
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:01 pm
Eruravenne BlueRaven990 Eruravenne BlueRaven990 Eruravenne So it's ok to be anti-Christian? What if these books were anti-Muslim? Or anti-Wiccan? Or anti-Black? Or anti-gay? Why is it ok for people to hate one religous group (Christians) but if anything is said that could be slightly concieved as negative about any other group (religious or otherwise), it's the worst thing ever?
It's the freedom of speech which is the positive thing.
Who are you (or anyone for that matter) to say what is right or wrong? To say that someone's view is right, better or more important that someone elses is usually a terrible thing.
Everyone is created equal and has the right to a view, if a book is firstly a novel and secondly the expression of a situation which is anti-gay, anti-straight, anti- black, anti-white, anti-America, Anti-England, Anti-BlueRaven990 or whatever it's ok for that view to be stated.
We're not saying the view is a correct one, we're saying the expression that it is there view is (as long as it is not acted upon). Why should someone hide their views just because someone else disagrees?So you would support a book or movie that was expressing hatred for gay people? Can you honestly say that if you were presented with such a book or movie that you would happily read/watch it and give it a good review because it was free speech? Or is that only if it was hidden inside a nice fantasy story? Edit: You shouldn't hide your views because someone else disagrees, but you also shouldn't expect everyone to readily accept your controversial views simply because they are controversial. If someone expresses hatred for me, I'm not going to smile and say "Good job!"
I wouldn't say I would support it to be honest, I'd treat it as any other book or film. And I would base my opinion on it entirely of the content, not on the views it projected. The views themselves are usually placed there to enhance a story or to make people think more about the story due to those views, and that can really help a book.
I'm not saying you have to be positive about a view or that you should accept them. I'm saying that you should allow people to express their views, respectfully of course. Seeing as views are only right or wrong in theory, an open mind is needed to stop oneself becoming unbalanced and wrong to all views but their own. Close minded views are often the cause of many conflicts big or small also.I'm not closed-minded. But I don't believe right and wrong are quite as vague as most people today think. The only reason people say that is because they want to be able to do whatever they want without consequences. But I don't want to continue this because it's just going to spiral into stupidity just like everything else...
Sorry I didn't mean to direct it at you, that's just my way of speaking. Sorry. sweatdrop
And I know what you mean about spiralling... So I'm gonna stop also. sweatdrop
You do raise a good point though. =]
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:53 pm
+--The point here, it that most people in America live in a society run by mostly Christian men. I don't know why, but it's true. Most people who have some sort of political status are Christian. It's good to see that there is a book that is trying to state a view that would by widely looked down upon by others, such as anti-christian. Let's face it, there are books out there that are anti-gay, and the sad truth it, we're use to it. It's nice to know there are other views.--+
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:55 pm
+--Oh snap, I didn't see the drop it post. Sorry, ignore my last one.--+
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:56 pm
T-demon aka Kuma +--Oh snap, I didn't see the drop it post. Sorry, ignore my last one.--+
Lol don't worry about it. xp
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:56 pm
I will quote from one of the most sage sources I know....
Futurama.
"Well sir, I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Except modify that to include "as long as you are willing to do the same for me"
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:02 pm
Eruravenne So it's ok to be anti-Christian? What if these books were anti-Muslim? Or anti-Wiccan? Or anti-Black? Or anti-gay? Why is it ok for people to hate one religous group (Christians) but if anything is said that could be slightly concieved as negative about any other group (religious or otherwise), it's the worst thing ever? Yes, it is okay to be anti-Christian. As much as it is to be pro-christian. As long as we're talking about the religion itself, and not the people who follow it. I'd be perfectly fine if it were anti-muslim (religion), though we have enough of those already, I'm sure. And anti-black? Anti-gay? You're mixing issues here. Do you choose to be black? No. Do you choose to be gay? I don't think so. So no, being anti-any of that is retarded. But religion is a worldview and a choice, and in our society, Christianity is the dominant one. It's the world's largest religion, and as such, many of it's views are accepted with nary a thought. If a book can be published that shows that there are other views out there besides the dominant one, and maybe, just maybe, some of the dominant views are not correct, then I repeat: Bravo. Also, consequences have NOTHING to do with right or wrong. Just thought I'd bring that up.
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:49 pm
I read it, and I don't think it's anti-christian. It's fiction, damnit.
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:47 pm
I never have heard of the book before, but now I want to read it. The movie looks interesting and I am hoping to watch it when it comes.
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Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:05 pm
BlueRaven990 Kali Chondra Yeata Zi I also don't think it's anti-christianity. People are so retarded. It's fiction, and clearly fiction no need to get worked up over a piece of fiction. You took the words right out of my mouth. Clearly people weren't taught to do what they should, seperate fact and fiction. A fiction book is not where I would get my religious views. Parents concerned that the book or movie might brainwash thier children really just need to sit down and explain the them it is made up. My mother explained this to me as a child, and I never had problems. I am not a christian for different reasons, but reading something like harry Potter will not make me a devil worshiper, or reading the His Dark Materials series will not make me an athiest. Of course, I don't want to start an argument. Please take this as my opinion, equally valid as anyone else's.
Just out of curiosity, but did your parents tell you that the Bible was fact, fiction, half and half etc? Or did they encourage you to think for yourself? (sorry if this is worded aggressively, I can't think of the right words but you should get the gist of what I'm asking. xd )My Dad is the son of a preacher, so, naturally, he's rather indifferent to religion. He despises how bigoted, and hypocritical it all is. Ironic how that seems to happen in uber christian homes. My Mum is the reason I'm Christian. She took us to church and gave us Bibles. Honestly (and contrary to popular belief) the Bible was written by man. We're not perfect, and so it is bound to have mistakes. People can point out places where it contradicts itself. But all religion is like that. One needs to go by it's teachings--the general picture. Be a good person. Do I believe people are going to hell for being of a different religion. No. Do I believe people are going to hell for being homosexual? or of a different decent than my own? No. I try not to judge people, as many religious groups do. My Daemon is a snow leopard named Aesop. He's a cutie.
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