|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:38 pm
The Betman Well, the more loving option of a benevolent god would be to create us as we are, and then not cast us into hellfire after death. If every person deserves to be saved, why aren't we all already saved? And if evidence is what you need, shouldn't you believe in evolution too? You'll smack that down, even with all that science has done to help try and prove it, but the bible is fact? I just don't understand how one can believe in a higher power such as that when there's no real proof to it. He did. He created man in His Image, perfect and holy fashioned to Love him. But love without the option isn't truly Love. Do you really want to be a Puppet? It was Man who failed God. The consequence for running away from God, is being away from God. If you cut yourself off from the source of Life, how can you live? If you absolutely refuse to let God work in your life, How can he work in your life? Even if he did, you wouldn't believe it. No no no, Nobody deserves to be saved. That's what I just quoted. Let me try another; "23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." [Romans 3:23-24] He did offer to save us. The same way we have the ability to choose something other than Love, he Gave us the Option to be redeemed! God is not a God of Hopelessness. He offered to save you, if you believe in him, and in his sacrifice for your sake. Now if you never accept that salvation, How can you be saved? lol You never asked me about things I personally believe in. Up until now, I've simply been answering your questions. If you want personal Testimony, I have seen quite enough Evidence to be relatively sure that the logical conclusion I've come to is a pretty reasonable one. ;P Also, I have no idea with the idea of Micro-evolution. That goes on all around us! But, I find it kind of hard to believe that a Cat can evolve into a Dog if it wants to. Cats have always been born Cats, Dogs always been born Dogs, and we've seen evidence of this occurring in our own homes, witnessed it with our own eyes. Know what I mean?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:41 pm
Wantcookie Medeus Wantcookie Medeus Wantcookie Medeus Yep. You have no proof. You have evidence, but not proof. Yep. Neither do you. In fact, you've got less evidence by far. Lol it's funny that you think that for how well you know me sir. Point is, niether of us can state, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that either theory is absolutely, finitely True. If that's really the case, then I don't see why both theories shouldn't be equally taught as Theories in a public setting, eh? Since that's all they are on both sides. I dunno, man, your biggest claim to fame is an outdated book that uses circular logic to claim the existence of a higher being. Give me some factual evidence. I'm sure you've got something. . Not only is the God that the Bible talks about quite Real, but he's also Actively involved with the people who believe in him. I've just linked you to about an hour and a half of documented Evidence. At least watch That video, if not more, and tell me what would be a perfectly reasonable, logical conclusion to come to, for those who were so inclined. Two minutes in, and already the only things I've seen are stories. Words from people's mouths. Oh, and a good dose of the Placebo Effect. Listen, what I want you to do is dig up hard undeniable evidence, something that I can see for myself and say "yes, that is definitely wholly and irrefutably true." Then we'll talk. So you've personally seen Evolution take place, literally before your own eyes? You've never had to listen to another Historian or Scholar or Teacher or Archeologist in order to come to the conclusion that there is finite Evidence of evolution? You've never listened to Words from people's mouths? Why, then, would you believe the words out of My mouth when I spoke them to you? Besides, You haven't shown me the same, so you're waging a very unbalanced battle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:45 pm
Wantcookie Two minutes in, and already the only things I've seen are stories. Words from people's mouths. Oh, and a good dose of the Placebo Effect. Listen, what I want you to do is dig up hard undeniable evidence, something that I can see for myself and say "yes, that is definitely wholly and irrefutably true." Then we'll talk. Also, if you like you can start 2 minutes into This one, and watch the next 5 4 minutes even, and you'll see more Evidence. razz Or if you like, there's an excellent point made at 3:40 of the first one I posted, and if you'd continued to watch, you would've heard the rationale and pondered.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:47 pm
Medeus So you've personally seen Evolution take place, literally before your own eyes? You've never had to listen to another Historian or Scholar or Teacher or Archeologist in order to come to the conclusion that there is finite Evidence of evolution? You've never listened to Words from people's mouths? Why, then, would you believe the words out of My mouth when I spoke them to you? Besides, You haven't shown me the same, so you're waging a very unbalanced battle. One could argue that the process of getting sick, recovering from an illness, and becoming resistant to that illness in the future is an example of the evolution of the cells that make up our individual immune system.
Then again, one could also argue that God made you sick just so he could make you better and now he's divinely protecting you from the same illness because you've already suffered that tribulation or however you wanna explain that.
In either scenario, you were sick and now you're better and the only thing that really changes with what you believe is which side you're arguing right now in this moment when you could be doing something much more satisfying with your good health.
Aaaaannnnddd we're back to eating candy and cracking jokes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:49 pm
Passing evolution off as "just a theory" makes you look like a dumbass. Seriously.
Scientific theory is not the same as the layman’s definition of theory. It is defined as an explanation to a phenomenon that has been tested and proven many times through experimentation, observation, and empirical data. It’s an explanation that has been verified to be true through rigorous and careful experimentation of a hypothesis. When a hypothesis is tested via experimentation and observation and proven to be true numerous times, it is confirmed to be the answer to the question and therefore becomes an accepted explanation. It is not a hunch.
"OH BUT WAIT, LALI-HO, IF WE EVOLVD FROM MUNKEES, Y R DERE STILL MUNKEES, DUR-HURR?"
We didn't evolve from monkeys; we're more closely related to apes than we are to monkeys. We didn't evolve from apes either; we and other apes share a common ancestoral species. Individuals don't evolve; populations do. Take natural selection for example: variable traits that are heritable that give an advantage to surviving a change in environment become more common in a population as time goes on because individuals with an advantageous trait survive to pass the trait on to the next generation, while those who do not have the advantageous trait have a harder time surviving and become less commonplace with each generation until eventually they die out, with only the individuals with the advantageous trait remaining. That’s the basic method of how natural selection works. I don’t claim to have all the angles covered, but I do know enough about evolution to realize it’s the best answer simply because I’ve seen the evidence at work. Heritable traits and mutations are one of the reasons why it’s so difficult to cure HIV. Hell, evolution is the reason why new strains of viruses keep popping up. A new vaccine is developed, eventually a mutation occurs within the virus population and it survives the vaccine and creates more of itself, becoming more commonplace.
Every time I see people moving to have creationism taught in schools instead of church where it belongs, I contemplate suicide. Normally I don't care much about these kinds of debates, but I’m sick of seeing all you creationists and pseudo-intellectual philosophy majors yammer on and on about evolution being “just a theory.” The argument can be made that science is not inherently true because it’s subject to change. True, the universe is vast, so there’s probably bound to be something that might change an explanation, but keep in mind, scientific theories change when something empirical and tangible shows up that is able to be observed, studied, and experimented. If the discovery proves to counter the existing theory, it’s tested. The process begins again. Question, hypothesis, testing, verification, then even more testing. If hypothesis is verified true enough times through evidence, it's the explanation to the question.
So far I haven’t seen God knock on my door and show his credentials to let me know he’s the real ******** deal, so I’m not convinced he exists. And when the ******** is Jesus coming back, anyway? Most of what I’ve seen in philosophy is people keep yammering about existentialism and some bullshit about how money affects human nature despite the fact that money isn’t inherently evil and therefore doesn’t make someone greedy; the greed was there to begin with. If you got rid of money, people will find something else to steal and hoard. What you do with what you have determines how greedy you are; you are not the contents of your wallet, you are what you do with the contents of your wallet.
And you are also an ape’s cousin.
QED. I got a statistics test tomorrow, so I'm going to bed soon. ******** people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:49 pm
Medeus The Betman Well, the more loving option of a benevolent god would be to create us as we are, and then not cast us into hellfire after death. If every person deserves to be saved, why aren't we all already saved? And if evidence is what you need, shouldn't you believe in evolution too? You'll smack that down, even with all that science has done to help try and prove it, but the bible is fact? I just don't understand how one can believe in a higher power such as that when there's no real proof to it. He did. He created man in His Image, perfect and holy fashioned to Love him. But love without the option isn't truly Love. Do you really want to be a Puppet? It was Man who failed God. The consequence for running away from God, is being away from God. If you cut yourself off from the source of Life, how can you live? If you absolutely refuse to let God work in your life, How can he work in your life? Even if he did, you wouldn't believe it. No no no, Nobody deserves to be saved. That's what I just quoted. Let me try another; "23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." [Romans 3:23-24] He did offer to save us. The same way we have the ability to choose something other than Love, he Gave us the Option to be redeemed! God is not a God of Hopelessness. He offered to save you, if you believe in him, and in his sacrifice for your sake. Now if you never accept that salvation, How can you be saved? lol You never asked me about things I personally believe in. Up until now, I've simply been answering your questions. If you want personal Testimony, I have seen quite enough Evidence to be relatively sure that the logical conclusion I've come to is a pretty reasonable one. ;P Also, I have no idea with the idea of Micro-evolution. That goes on all around us! But, I find it kind of hard to believe that a Cat can evolve into a Dog if it wants to. Cats have always been born Cats, Dogs always been born Dogs, and we've seen evidence of this occurring in our own homes, witnessed it with our own eyes. Know what I mean? Micro evolution is no different from regular evolution. Evolution isn't one thing turning into a whole other thing, it's the theory that over time, slowly, we've adapted new mutations that have become the norm to help us interact and survive in our environment. A dog wouldn't turn into a cat because of evolution, they're two different species. And what do I need to be saved from? Something with no proof to its existence? What I believe in is the world around me, and the people I interact with. I don't need more than that to believe that I can do good in the world, and that I can change things in a positive manner. I wish we could all move above religion as the motivation to do things justly and kindly. I can be a good person without devoting my life to a being that isn't likely to exist, or based on a set of morals and guidelines set out by a book that was created two thousand years ago about a man that we can't be sure existed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:52 pm
Carchar-odin Passing evolution off as "just a theory" makes you look like a dumbass. Seriously. Scientific theory is not the same as the layman’s definition of theory. It is defined as an explanation to a phenomenon that has been tested and proven many times through experimentation, observation, and empirical data. It’s an explanation that has been verified to be true through rigorous and careful experimentation of a hypothesis. When a hypothesis is tested via experimentation and observation and proven to be true numerous times, it is confirmed to be the answer to the question and therefore becomes an accepted explanation. It is not a hunch. "OH BUT WAIT, LALI-HO, IF WE EVOLVD FROM MUNKEES, Y R DERE STILL MUNKEES, DUR-HURR?" We didn't evolve from monkeys; we're more closely related to apes than we are to monkeys. We didn't evolve from apes either; we and other apes share a common ancestoral species. Individuals don't evolve; populations do. Take natural selection for example: variable traits that are heritable that give an advantage to surviving a change in environment become more common in a population as time goes on because individuals with an advantageous trait survive to pass the trait on to the next generation, while those who do not have the advantageous trait have a harder time surviving and become less commonplace with each generation until eventually they die out, with only the individuals with the advantageous trait remaining. That’s the basic method of how natural selection works. I don’t claim to have all the angles covered, but I do know enough about evolution to realize it’s the best answer simply because I’ve seen the evidence at work. Heritable traits and mutations are one of the reasons why it’s so difficult to cure HIV. Hell, evolution is the reason why new strains of viruses keep popping up. A new vaccine is developed, eventually a mutation occurs within the virus population and it survives the vaccine and creates more of itself, becoming more commonplace. Every time I see people moving to have creationism taught in schools instead of church where it belongs, I contemplate suicide. Normally I don't care much about these kinds of debates, but I’m sick of seeing all you creationists and pseudo-intellectual philosophy majors yammer on and on about evolution being “just a theory.” The argument can be made that science is not inherently true because it’s subject to change. True, the universe is vast, so there’s probably bound to be something that might change an explanation, but keep in mind, scientific theories change when something empirical and tangible shows up that is able to be observed, studies, and experimented. If the discovery proves to counter the existing theory, it’s tested. The process begins again. Question, hypothesis, testing, verification, then even more testing. If hypothesis is verified true enough times through evidence, it's the explanation to the question. So far I haven’t seen God knock on my door step and show his credentials to let me know he’s the real ******** deal, so I’m not convinced he exists. And when the ******** is Jesus coming back, anyway? Most of what I’ve seen in philosophy is people keep yammering about existentialism and some bullshit about how money affects human nature despite the fact that money isn’t inherently evil and therefore doesn’t make someone greedy; the greed was there to begin with. If you got rid of money, people will find something else to steal and hoard. What you do with what you have determines how greedy you are; you are not the contents of your wallet, you are what you do with the contents of your wallet. And you are also an ape’s cousin. QED. I got a statistics test tomorrow, so I'm going to bed soon. ******** people. I love you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:52 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sharkbutt The Orgiastic Crew
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:52 pm
Medeus Wantcookie Medeus Wantcookie Medeus Lol it's funny that you think that for how well you know me sir. Point is, niether of us can state, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that either theory is absolutely, finitely True. If that's really the case, then I don't see why both theories shouldn't be equally taught as Theories in a public setting, eh? Since that's all they are on both sides. I dunno, man, your biggest claim to fame is an outdated book that uses circular logic to claim the existence of a higher being. Give me some factual evidence. I'm sure you've got something. . Not only is the God that the Bible talks about quite Real, but he's also Actively involved with the people who believe in him. I've just linked you to about an hour and a half of documented Evidence. At least watch That video, if not more, and tell me what would be a perfectly reasonable, logical conclusion to come to, for those who were so inclined. Two minutes in, and already the only things I've seen are stories. Words from people's mouths. Oh, and a good dose of the Placebo Effect. Listen, what I want you to do is dig up hard undeniable evidence, something that I can see for myself and say "yes, that is definitely wholly and irrefutably true." Then we'll talk. So you've personally seen Evolution take place, literally before your own eyes? You've never had to listen to another Historian or Scholar or Teacher or Archeologist in order to come to the conclusion that there is finite Evidence of evolution? You've never listened to Words from people's mouths? Why, then, would you believe the words out of My mouth when I spoke them to you? Besides, You haven't shown me the same, so you're waging a very unbalanced battle. Yes, actually, I have. Ever watch a bacteria take in a plasmid, or a virus insert a string of RNA? It's really quite interesting. Look, sir, you're fighting a losing battle. I'm not trying to disprove the existence of God, I'm trying to point out that they're on entirely different tiers of existence. Religion is entirely faith-based, passed by word of mouth and perpetuated by those who believe. Science exists as a methodology based on undeniable fact and hard observation. Nothing is taught or accepted as truth until there is overwhelming irrefutable evidence to back it up. It's why "Theorical Sciences" counts as it's own branch, containing things like theoretical physics which entails quantum relations between particles and all that jazz. You just can't teach something based wholly on faith and claim it's all solid fact.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:53 pm
Cabron LaSwan
Medeus So you've personally seen Evolution take place, literally before your own eyes? You've never had to listen to another Historian or Scholar or Teacher or Archeologist in order to come to the conclusion that there is finite Evidence of evolution? You've never listened to Words from people's mouths? Why, then, would you believe the words out of My mouth when I spoke them to you? Besides, You haven't shown me the same, so you're waging a very unbalanced battle. One could argue that the process of getting sick, recovering from an illness, and becoming resistant to that illness in the future is an example of the evolution of the cells that make up our individual immune system.
Then again, one could also argue that God made you sick just so he could make you better and now he's divinely protecting you from the same illness because you've already suffered that tribulation or however you wanna explain that.
In either scenario, you were sick and now you're better and the only thing that really changes with what you believe is which side you're arguing right now in this moment when you could be doing something much more satisfying with your good health.
Aaaaannnnddd we're back to eating candy and cracking jokes. lol becoming immune to an illness doesn't mean you've transformed into another species. [/insert animorph.nostalgia.jpg] And you're right though. Personally, I'd rather believe in a God who, not only has healed me from Past diseases, but is capable and willing of reliably saving me from future malady, similar or otherwise. I'd rather believe that I never ever have to worry about suffering some horrible disease, which is not something I can believe in if I only believe in my own genes....I've never had cancer, but I would rather be healed of it than go through it and hope that I'll be better off next time (which is rarely the case with reoccurring cancer, as I'm sure you know. Can't raise immunities against that...).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:54 pm
Oh hey stuff
Everything I've been working for is probably going to go down the drain tomorrow.
i am 0kay with it
But s**t sucks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:57 pm
l-Kathulu-l Oh hey stuff Everything I've been working for is probably going to go down the drain tomorrow. i am 0kay with it But s**t sucks. what =[
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sharkbutt The Orgiastic Crew
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:57 pm
Medeus lol becoming immune to an illness doesn't mean you've transformed into another species. [/insert animorph.nostalgia.jpg]  Did you know that when you get infected by a virus, it comes away with some of your genetic code and you come away with some of its?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:57 pm
Medeus Cabron LaSwan
Medeus So you've personally seen Evolution take place, literally before your own eyes? You've never had to listen to another Historian or Scholar or Teacher or Archeologist in order to come to the conclusion that there is finite Evidence of evolution? You've never listened to Words from people's mouths? Why, then, would you believe the words out of My mouth when I spoke them to you? Besides, You haven't shown me the same, so you're waging a very unbalanced battle. One could argue that the process of getting sick, recovering from an illness, and becoming resistant to that illness in the future is an example of the evolution of the cells that make up our individual immune system.
Then again, one could also argue that God made you sick just so he could make you better and now he's divinely protecting you from the same illness because you've already suffered that tribulation or however you wanna explain that.
In either scenario, you were sick and now you're better and the only thing that really changes with what you believe is which side you're arguing right now in this moment when you could be doing something much more satisfying with your good health.
Aaaaannnnddd we're back to eating candy and cracking jokes. lol becoming immune to an illness doesn't mean you've transformed into another species. [/insert animorph.nostalgia.jpg] And you're right though. Personally, I'd rather believe in a God who, not only has healed me from Past diseases, but is capable and willing of reliably saving me from future malady, similar or otherwise. I'd rather believe that I never ever have to worry about suffering some horrible disease, which is not something I can believe in if I only believe in my own genes....I've never had cancer, but I would rather be healed of it than go through it and hope that I'll be better off next time (which is rarely the case with reoccurring cancer, as I'm sure you know. Can't raise immunities against that...). I don't think you really have a firm grasp on what evolution is. But I'm glad that you're admitting that you believe what you believe because it's what you'd rather believe. That's all I've been getting at this whole time. Everyone has a right to believe in whatever makes them happy, and everyone has a right to choose for themselves what that is without having it thrown into question. I'd like if we could all just agree to disagree and not try to convince each other that one set of beliefs is 'right' while the other is 'wrong' and let this thread go back to consisting of posts like Kath's.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:00 pm
Wantcookie Medeus lol becoming immune to an illness doesn't mean you've transformed into another species. [/insert animorph.nostalgia.jpg] [imLETMETELLYOU]http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1/wantcookie/Ridiculous GIFs/tumblr_ltxi6i3sju1r13r3w.gif[/imgABOUTHOMESTUCK] Did you know that when you get infected by a virus, it comes away with some of your genetic code and you come away with some of its? Is it just me, or does John's arm retract into itself when he slaps Dave on the shoulder?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
