|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:25 am
Two flaws in your logic- You say that if there is an afterlife, there is meaning, and if there is not, then there is no meaning. I agree with this, but that begs the question "why must the afterlife be attained only by the way you state?"- Just because there is a God, or an afterlife, doesn't mean it has to be the one you believe in, or that the one you believe in requires what you believe He requires.
Secondly, on fascism. God is not fascist because he created the universe to control it? Then is a dictator not a dictator if he starts his country with the intent to rule it completely as a dictator?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:36 pm
divineseraph Two flaws in your logic- You say that if there is an afterlife, there is meaning, and if there is not, then there is no meaning. I agree with this, but that begs the question "why must the afterlife be attained only by the way you state?"- Just because there is a God, or an afterlife, doesn't mean it has to be the one you believe in, or that the one you believe in requires what you believe He requires. Secondly, on fascism. God is not fascist because he created the universe to control it? Then is a dictator not a dictator if he starts his country with the intent to rule it completely as a dictator? Yes, but I can't exactly argue for a different belief mostly because I don't have enough knowledge on other beliefs to do so. Well yes, but in that case it's an imperfect man trying to rule over people who weren't just created to follow Him. With God it's different because everything was made for His purposes. You're comparing God to man when He's far more powerful and perfect then us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:41 pm
rmcdra @xxEternallyBluexx I have provided refutes to the interpretation to the verse that you used to support the condemnation of homosexuality. Please address these refutes because as far as I can see there is no condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible within the context of Christianity. Sorry didn't catch that before. sweatdrop Anyway, I don't know how to refute that yet. I'm gonna go research that some more before I post again, okay?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:52 pm
when i am unsure about something, i go to what Jesus said about it...
:peruses:
okay, i see some stuff about adultery and about faithfulness...
but nothing about homosexuality.
guess that was not a big issue for the guy....?
okay, so it won't be one for me either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:50 pm
xxEternallyBluexx divineseraph Two flaws in your logic- You say that if there is an afterlife, there is meaning, and if there is not, then there is no meaning. I agree with this, but that begs the question "why must the afterlife be attained only by the way you state?"- Just because there is a God, or an afterlife, doesn't mean it has to be the one you believe in, or that the one you believe in requires what you believe He requires. Secondly, on fascism. God is not fascist because he created the universe to control it? Then is a dictator not a dictator if he starts his country with the intent to rule it completely as a dictator? Well yes, but in that case it's an imperfect man trying to rule over people who weren't just created to follow Him. With God it's different because everything was made for His purposes. You're comparing God to man when He's far more powerful and perfect then us.
God has caused genocide twice.
Even though this was possibly needed, not to that extent, an ALL-loving God wouldn't make the same mistake twice. Not to mention the woman turned into salt for turning around?
That was pretty hardcore and wasn't even needed.
Continuing, what exactly IS perfect?
What makes God perfect, exactly?
His powers or does that just make him a higher being?
Ending it to the whole perfect argument, I would like to ask and wonder why a God must have his way with people or they will perish.
Going back to the Adam and Eve story, you said the only problem was them eating the fruit even though that was not the case.
However, if the case is that God just didn't want them to eat the fruit and punished them for disobeying them, isn't that considered fascism?
I mean, God did not need to restrict them from anything, let alone give them the chance to.
There is a common correlation between fascism and Hitler so lets use him in this case.
God forcefully makes the image of man in not only appearance, but personality. Meaning he is in search for something he thinks is perfect even though his creations were a total failure. *Making him imperfect.*
For Hitler, every man was perfect. Hitler was better then most men.
Not by his ideas, but he was a genius. He was insane but smart.
He looked for people in his image which means those who were Christian, had blonde hair with blue eyes, and was not Jewish at all.
So what is the difference between these goals? Both of them want something they think is perfect BUT is it what separates them is being perfect or are they both imperfect?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:51 pm
xxEternallyBluexx rmcdra @xxEternallyBluexx I have provided refutes to the interpretation to the verse that you used to support the condemnation of homosexuality. Please address these refutes because as far as I can see there is no condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible within the context of Christianity. Sorry didn't catch that before. sweatdrop Anyway, I don't know how to refute that yet. I'm gonna go research that some more before I post again, okay? So you said the Bible told you homosexuals were bad when you aren't even sure? 0_0
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:53 pm
dimentia44 Mei tsuki7 Someoneiknow my thoughts on the subject of homosexuality. I do not condone, nor condemn homsexuals, but I do not agree with their actions either. Well they can't have sex within marriage because they can't get married. By not allowing them to get married you are forcing them to sin therefore forcing them away from God. (This only applies if you feel sex outside of marriage is a sin.) Well then why don't we lift the goddamn marriage laws so they WON'T be living in sin?!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:08 pm
xxEternallyBluexx divineseraph Two flaws in your logic- You say that if there is an afterlife, there is meaning, and if there is not, then there is no meaning. I agree with this, but that begs the question "why must the afterlife be attained only by the way you state?"- Just because there is a God, or an afterlife, doesn't mean it has to be the one you believe in, or that the one you believe in requires what you believe He requires. Secondly, on fascism. God is not fascist because he created the universe to control it? Then is a dictator not a dictator if he starts his country with the intent to rule it completely as a dictator? Yes, but I can't exactly argue for a different belief mostly because I don't have enough knowledge on other beliefs to do so. Well yes, but in that case it's an imperfect man trying to rule over people who weren't just created to follow Him. With God it's different because everything was made for His purposes. You're comparing God to man when He's far more powerful and perfect then us. It's still illogical to say "Since I don't know of anything else, my interpretation must be right." It would be like someone who has never taken geometry claiming it to be impossible to find the area of a triangle because he or she doesn't know how. The country was made for the dictator's purposes, by the dictator- If this dictator is powerful enough to make a country, why shouldn't he rule it and have it be for him?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:41 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx rmcdra @xxEternallyBluexx I have provided refutes to the interpretation to the verse that you used to support the condemnation of homosexuality. Please address these refutes because as far as I can see there is no condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible within the context of Christianity. Sorry didn't catch that before. sweatdrop Anyway, I don't know how to refute that yet. I'm gonna go research that some more before I post again, okay? So you said the Bible told you homosexuals were bad when you aren't even sure? 0_0 Was sure, am not anymore. So I'm not gonna debate about it until I've learned more about it. Do you have a problem with that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:51 pm
divineseraph xxEternallyBluexx divineseraph Two flaws in your logic- You say that if there is an afterlife, there is meaning, and if there is not, then there is no meaning. I agree with this, but that begs the question "why must the afterlife be attained only by the way you state?"- Just because there is a God, or an afterlife, doesn't mean it has to be the one you believe in, or that the one you believe in requires what you believe He requires. Secondly, on fascism. God is not fascist because he created the universe to control it? Then is a dictator not a dictator if he starts his country with the intent to rule it completely as a dictator? Yes, but I can't exactly argue for a different belief mostly because I don't have enough knowledge on other beliefs to do so. Well yes, but in that case it's an imperfect man trying to rule over people who weren't just created to follow Him. With God it's different because everything was made for His purposes. You're comparing God to man when He's far more powerful and perfect then us. It's still illogical to say "Since I don't know of anything else, my interpretation must be right." It would be like someone who has never taken geometry claiming it to be impossible to find the area of a triangle because he or she doesn't know how. The country was made for the dictator's purposes, by the dictator- If this dictator is powerful enough to make a country, why shouldn't he rule it and have it be for him? You're comparing something concrete like geometry with beliefs? O_o And what exactly are you asking me to do? Argue for a different view? Admit other views exist? The former would be foolish, and the latter I do recognize. Because everything was still made by God, and so is made for His purposes first. What He wants to do with it is more important. Plus the dictator's still human, and so is bound to mess up somehow. Again, God's perfect, so it's different with Him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:00 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx rmcdra @xxEternallyBluexx I have provided refutes to the interpretation to the verse that you used to support the condemnation of homosexuality. Please address these refutes because as far as I can see there is no condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible within the context of Christianity. Sorry didn't catch that before. sweatdrop Anyway, I don't know how to refute that yet. I'm gonna go research that some more before I post again, okay? So you said the Bible told you homosexuals were bad when you aren't even sure? 0_0 Was sure, am not anymore. So I'm not gonna debate about it until I've learned more about it. Do you have a problem with that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:12 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx divineseraph Two flaws in your logic- You say that if there is an afterlife, there is meaning, and if there is not, then there is no meaning. I agree with this, but that begs the question "why must the afterlife be attained only by the way you state?"- Just because there is a God, or an afterlife, doesn't mean it has to be the one you believe in, or that the one you believe in requires what you believe He requires. Secondly, on fascism. God is not fascist because he created the universe to control it? Then is a dictator not a dictator if he starts his country with the intent to rule it completely as a dictator? Well yes, but in that case it's an imperfect man trying to rule over people who weren't just created to follow Him. With God it's different because everything was made for His purposes. You're comparing God to man when He's far more powerful and perfect then us.
God has caused genocide twice.
Even though this was possibly needed, not to that extent, an ALL-loving God wouldn't make the same mistake twice. Not to mention the woman turned into salt for turning around?
That was pretty hardcore and wasn't even needed.
Continuing, what exactly IS perfect?
What makes God perfect, exactly?
His powers or does that just make him a higher being?
Ending it to the whole perfect argument, I would like to ask and wonder why a God must have his way with people or they will perish.
Going back to the Adam and Eve story, you said the only problem was them eating the fruit even though that was not the case.
However, if the case is that God just didn't want them to eat the fruit and punished them for disobeying them, isn't that considered fascism?
I mean, God did not need to restrict them from anything, let alone give them the chance to.
There is a common correlation between fascism and Hitler so lets use him in this case.
God forcefully makes the image of man in not only appearance, but personality. Meaning he is in search for something he thinks is perfect even though his creations were a total failure. *Making him imperfect.*
For Hitler, every man was perfect. Hitler was better then most men.
Not by his ideas, but he was a genius. He was insane but smart.
He looked for people in his image which means those who were Christian, had blonde hair with blue eyes, and was not Jewish at all.
So what is the difference between these goals? Both of them want something they think is perfect BUT is it what separates them is being perfect or are they both imperfect?Everything. He knows everything, and is allpowerful, and He also has a perfect sense of justice. And what do you mean by 'the goal for efficiency for being perfect'? I know about Noah's Ark, but what other genocide are you talking about? And in defense of that, people were so evil God regretted ever making them. Now take that wickedness, let it roll down hill a few thousand years, and I bet we would've had a world that was far worse. He was making a point, and dang I wish you were around when I was debating that with brainnsoup. >< It'd probably save me a lot of arguing. Good question....I haven't read anything on it yet, but I think it's all His qualities, and the fact He never makes a mistake. Perish in what way? There had to be a choice. Love isn't forced, so He couldn't be the only option. And He did warn them. And how it's a fascism? (A dictionary defintion might help your case). Forcefully? Total failure? Every man was perfect? Better? I don't understand where you're getting that from? Please explain? And Hitler didn't look anything like his idea if perfect, and some historians think he was Jewish, so I'm not really sure what you're saying there either. O_o God knew we weren't perfect. He wanted someone like Him who would choose Him. Most Christians don't know why He loves mankind, but the Bible is an account of His pursuit of us. He loves us for some unknown reason, and the control He has over His followers is as natural as the control a parent is supposed to have over a child. Hitler was a lunatic, and men with god-complexes mess up what they try to control because man was never meant to take God's place. It doesn't mean it's wrong for God to hold that place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:22 pm
Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx Captain_Shinzo xxEternallyBluexx rmcdra @xxEternallyBluexx I have provided refutes to the interpretation to the verse that you used to support the condemnation of homosexuality. Please address these refutes because as far as I can see there is no condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible within the context of Christianity. Sorry didn't catch that before. sweatdrop Anyway, I don't know how to refute that yet. I'm gonna go research that some more before I post again, okay? So you said the Bible told you homosexuals were bad when you aren't even sure? 0_0 Was sure, am not anymore. So I'm not gonna debate about it until I've learned more about it. Do you have a problem with that? I try not to debate about things I'm not sure about, including here. That link was the first thing I posted in this topic, and it'll be the last thing I post about homosexuality for a while. That doesn't mean I'm not gonna refute points about God's perfection though...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:01 pm
xxEternallyBluexx divineseraph xxEternallyBluexx divineseraph Two flaws in your logic- You say that if there is an afterlife, there is meaning, and if there is not, then there is no meaning. I agree with this, but that begs the question "why must the afterlife be attained only by the way you state?"- Just because there is a God, or an afterlife, doesn't mean it has to be the one you believe in, or that the one you believe in requires what you believe He requires. Secondly, on fascism. God is not fascist because he created the universe to control it? Then is a dictator not a dictator if he starts his country with the intent to rule it completely as a dictator? Yes, but I can't exactly argue for a different belief mostly because I don't have enough knowledge on other beliefs to do so. Well yes, but in that case it's an imperfect man trying to rule over people who weren't just created to follow Him. With God it's different because everything was made for His purposes. You're comparing God to man when He's far more powerful and perfect then us. It's still illogical to say "Since I don't know of anything else, my interpretation must be right." It would be like someone who has never taken geometry claiming it to be impossible to find the area of a triangle because he or she doesn't know how. The country was made for the dictator's purposes, by the dictator- If this dictator is powerful enough to make a country, why shouldn't he rule it and have it be for him? You're comparing something concrete like geometry with beliefs? O_o And what exactly are you asking me to do? Argue for a different view? Admit other views exist? The former would be foolish, and the latter I do recognize. Because everything was still made by God, and so is made for His purposes first. What He wants to do with it is more important. Plus the dictator's still human, and so is bound to mess up somehow. Again, God's perfect, so it's different with Him. But you're going all or nothing- You're essentially saying "If it's not my way, it's not any way" which isn't the case. The argument was "The afterlife is what is important" but then, who is to say your vision of it is the right one? Saying "I don't know about others" is no reason to say that they are not viable possibilities. Fair enough, but it would still be fascism, even if the fascist were perfect.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
