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 Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:54 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 We already blew off our first chance. We ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. But then Jesus came and died for our sins. If you accept Jesus into your heart then you live forever. Second chance. There is no third chance. When Jesus comes and walks on the earth for the second and final time, it's too late. Also, I would rather believe in and omnipotent, omniscient (spelling?), eternaly loving being who offers us a free chance to live forever in paradise the a giant flying spaghetti monster. At least Christianity has the Bible as proof. Hell was created for Satan and his fallen angels. If you didn't become a Christian on Earth, that's where you are going. To a place of eternal torture at the hands of demons. Being an athiest is illogical. Look, if you guys are right, and there is nothing when we die but eternal unconciousness, then we will never know. But if your wrong, then you'll know it forever. That's not a chance anyone should be willing to take. You fail to realise that there are thousands of religions that all make Hell-like threats and forbid you from practising other religions. Pascal's Wager is flawed in that respect. Never heard of Pascal's Wager, don't care about Pascal's Wager. I'm only thirteen. I obviously can't prove it to you since your too stuborn (that isn't either a compliment or a put-down, only a statement of fact), so I'm not going to try anymore. I'm only gonna debate for the fun of it. Go ahead, try any of those thousand religions. See what you get from it. This is the only one I've tried that I've found a sense of purpose and value from. I'm sticking with it. A song that explains this is "My Obsession" by Skillet.
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:00 pm
Lethkhar Sour Turtle A Different Light Type Text, I have a proposal that doesn't involve me being tortured for eternity. God, being omnipotent, destroys Satan and his minions, which sort of gets rid of Hell. Then, instead of going to Hell, I just walk earth as a ghost and freak people out. Thus, I can be evil on earth, and God can have you and your pure friends in Heaven. Why does god like to torture me? Because it sure looks like that's his goal. You ask why God doesn't destroy Hell. One main thing I see is that God gave everyone free will. Including his angels. Sometimes power like that is the most strongest power out there. It can go to your head, as it did with a certain angel who decided to defy God. He wanted to have more power then God, so he made Hell. God isn't going to change people's decisions, he said he wouldn't. So, if he destroyed Hell, he would be a hypocrite. Quote: How would destroying Hell destroy our free will? The way I see it, it would only cause even more freedom. Right now, Hell is a threat the sways our decisions. Without it, we would have even more "free will". And without hell, we could do whatever the heck we wanted without fear of death. We wouldn't worship God, we wouldn't care. We would die and either go into eternal unconciousness, or come back as ghosts (as omnidious said) except that we would stay as ghosts until the world ends. Then we would go into eternal unconciousness. Does that make sense? Quote: Also, with Hell being in existence, it sort of brings us back down from the clouds. We realize how horrible a life without God would be and go to him, as he wanted us to. You don't realize what you're giving up until you get to Hell. Well, that's my assumption anyways. Why do we have to wait until it's too late to find out how bad Hell is? Ask God. Also, whats up with your sig? I don't get it. It seems so random.
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:41 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 We already blew off our first chance. We ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. But then Jesus came and died for our sins. If you accept Jesus into your heart then you live forever. Second chance. There is no third chance. When Jesus comes and walks on the earth for the second and final time, it's too late. Also, I would rather believe in and omnipotent, omniscient (spelling?), eternaly loving being who offers us a free chance to live forever in paradise the a giant flying spaghetti monster. At least Christianity has the Bible as proof. Hell was created for Satan and his fallen angels. If you didn't become a Christian on Earth, that's where you are going. To a place of eternal torture at the hands of demons. Being an athiest is illogical. Look, if you guys are right, and there is nothing when we die but eternal unconciousness, then we will never know. But if your wrong, then you'll know it forever. That's not a chance anyone should be willing to take. You fail to realise that there are thousands of religions that all make Hell-like threats and forbid you from practising other religions. Pascal's Wager is flawed in that respect. Never heard of Pascal's Wager, don't care about Pascal's Wager. I'm only thirteen. I obviously can't prove it to you since your too stuborn (that isn't either a compliment or a put-down, only a statement of fact), so I'm not going to try anymore. I'm only gonna debate for the fun of it. Go ahead, try any of those thousand religions. See what you get from it. This is the only one I've tried that I've found a sense of purpose and value from. I'm sticking with it. A song that explains this is "My Obsession" by Skillet. I only debate for the fun of it, as well. You did not ask, but I will explain Pascal's Wager in case you felt like finding out: Pascal's Wager is the argument that being an atheist is foolish, you might as well join Christianity. The idea goes that there is nothing to lose with becoming a Christian and everything to gain by getting the possibility of going to heaven. An atheist, on the other hand, has everything to lose by going to hell and nothing to gain. Of course, Pascal probably didn't know much of religions outside of Christianity when he wrote it, and quite frankly he was a bit too close-minded to think of it anyway. I personally think he should've stayed in mathematics. Anyways, the fact is that there are a lot of religions out there that make Hell-like threats, and Pascal's Wager could be applied to any one of those. So Pascal's Wager doesn't really help Christianity's case any. I'm an atheist. I find that to be the most fulfilling and objective path. I think there's a sense of integrity in it. A song that explains this is "Faithless" by Rush.
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Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:44 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar Sour Turtle A Different Light Type Text, I have a proposal that doesn't involve me being tortured for eternity. God, being omnipotent, destroys Satan and his minions, which sort of gets rid of Hell. Then, instead of going to Hell, I just walk earth as a ghost and freak people out. Thus, I can be evil on earth, and God can have you and your pure friends in Heaven. Why does god like to torture me? Because it sure looks like that's his goal. You ask why God doesn't destroy Hell. One main thing I see is that God gave everyone free will. Including his angels. Sometimes power like that is the most strongest power out there. It can go to your head, as it did with a certain angel who decided to defy God. He wanted to have more power then God, so he made Hell. God isn't going to change people's decisions, he said he wouldn't. So, if he destroyed Hell, he would be a hypocrite. Quote: How would destroying Hell destroy our free will? The way I see it, it would only cause even more freedom. Right now, Hell is a threat the sways our decisions. Without it, we would have even more "free will". And without hell, we could do whatever the heck we wanted without fear of death. We wouldn't worship God, we wouldn't care. We would die and either go into eternal unconciousness, or come back as ghosts (as omnidious said) except that we would stay as ghosts until the world ends. Then we would go into eternal unconciousness. Does that make sense? Quote: Also, with Hell being in existence, it sort of brings us back down from the clouds. We realize how horrible a life without God would be and go to him, as he wanted us to. You don't realize what you're giving up until you get to Hell. Well, that's my assumption anyways. Why do we have to wait until it's too late to find out how bad Hell is? Ask God. I've tried. Quote: Also, whats up with your sig? I don't get it. It seems so random. Quite honestly, don't try to make me interpret Porcupine Tree lyrics for you. They have a meaning for myself, but they could mean something completely different to you. I'd feel like I was ruining it for you if I explained my own interpretation. That's what Porcupine Tree so good, besides the fact that the music they make is absolutely gorgeous.
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:31 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 We already blew off our first chance. We ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. But then Jesus came and died for our sins. If you accept Jesus into your heart then you live forever. Second chance. There is no third chance. When Jesus comes and walks on the earth for the second and final time, it's too late. Also, I would rather believe in and omnipotent, omniscient (spelling?), eternaly loving being who offers us a free chance to live forever in paradise the a giant flying spaghetti monster. At least Christianity has the Bible as proof. Hell was created for Satan and his fallen angels. If you didn't become a Christian on Earth, that's where you are going. To a place of eternal torture at the hands of demons. Being an athiest is illogical. Look, if you guys are right, and there is nothing when we die but eternal unconciousness, then we will never know. But if your wrong, then you'll know it forever. That's not a chance anyone should be willing to take. You fail to realise that there are thousands of religions that all make Hell-like threats and forbid you from practising other religions. Pascal's Wager is flawed in that respect. Never heard of Pascal's Wager, don't care about Pascal's Wager. I'm only thirteen. I obviously can't prove it to you since your too stuborn (that isn't either a compliment or a put-down, only a statement of fact), so I'm not going to try anymore. I'm only gonna debate for the fun of it. Go ahead, try any of those thousand religions. See what you get from it. This is the only one I've tried that I've found a sense of purpose and value from. I'm sticking with it. A song that explains this is "My Obsession" by Skillet. I only debate for the fun of it, as well. You did not ask, but I will explain Pascal's Wager in case you felt like finding out: Pascal's Wager is the argument that being an atheist is foolish, you might as well join Christianity. The idea goes that there is nothing to lose with becoming a Christian and everything to gain by getting the possibility of going to heaven. An atheist, on the other hand, has everything to lose by going to hell and nothing to gain. Of course, Pascal probably didn't know much of religions outside of Christianity when he wrote it, and quite frankly he was a bit too close-minded to think of it anyway. I personally think he should've stayed in mathematics. Anyways, the fact is that there are a lot of religions out there that make Hell-like threats, and Pascal's Wager could be applied to any one of those. So Pascal's Wager doesn't really help Christianity's case any. I hate it when people try to argue about something when they know nothing about it.I'm an atheist. I find that to be the most fulfilling and objective path. I think there's a sense of integrity in it. A song that explains this is "Faithless" by Rush. And there isn't a sense of integrity in Christianity?
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:36 pm
Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 We already blew off our first chance. We ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. But then Jesus came and died for our sins. If you accept Jesus into your heart then you live forever. Second chance. There is no third chance. When Jesus comes and walks on the earth for the second and final time, it's too late. Also, I would rather believe in and omnipotent, omniscient (spelling?), eternaly loving being who offers us a free chance to live forever in paradise the a giant flying spaghetti monster. At least Christianity has the Bible as proof. Hell was created for Satan and his fallen angels. If you didn't become a Christian on Earth, that's where you are going. To a place of eternal torture at the hands of demons. Being an athiest is illogical. Look, if you guys are right, and there is nothing when we die but eternal unconciousness, then we will never know. But if your wrong, then you'll know it forever. That's not a chance anyone should be willing to take. You fail to realise that there are thousands of religions that all make Hell-like threats and forbid you from practising other religions. Pascal's Wager is flawed in that respect. Never heard of Pascal's Wager, don't care about Pascal's Wager. I'm only thirteen. I obviously can't prove it to you since your too stuborn (that isn't either a compliment or a put-down, only a statement of fact), so I'm not going to try anymore. I'm only gonna debate for the fun of it. Go ahead, try any of those thousand religions. See what you get from it. This is the only one I've tried that I've found a sense of purpose and value from. I'm sticking with it. A song that explains this is "My Obsession" by Skillet. I only debate for the fun of it, as well. You did not ask, but I will explain Pascal's Wager in case you felt like finding out: Pascal's Wager is the argument that being an atheist is foolish, you might as well join Christianity. The idea goes that there is nothing to lose with becoming a Christian and everything to gain by getting the possibility of going to heaven. An atheist, on the other hand, has everything to lose by going to hell and nothing to gain. Of course, Pascal probably didn't know much of religions outside of Christianity when he wrote it, and quite frankly he was a bit too close-minded to think of it anyway. I personally think he should've stayed in mathematics. Anyways, the fact is that there are a lot of religions out there that make Hell-like threats, and Pascal's Wager could be applied to any one of those. So Pascal's Wager doesn't really help Christianity's case any. I hate it when people try to argue about something when they know nothing about it.Please, explain to me why my explanation of Pascal's Wager was incorrect. I realise I paraphrased, but I thought I got it basically right. GuardianAngel44 Quote: I'm an atheist. I find that to be the most fulfilling and objective path. I think there's a sense of integrity in it. A song that explains this is "Faithless" by Rush. And there isn't a sense of integrity in Christianity? Did I ever say there wasn't? neutral
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:01 pm
Lethkhar Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 We already blew off our first chance. We ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. But then Jesus came and died for our sins. If you accept Jesus into your heart then you live forever. Second chance. There is no third chance. When Jesus comes and walks on the earth for the second and final time, it's too late. Also, I would rather believe in and omnipotent, omniscient (spelling?), eternaly loving being who offers us a free chance to live forever in paradise the a giant flying spaghetti monster. At least Christianity has the Bible as proof. Hell was created for Satan and his fallen angels. If you didn't become a Christian on Earth, that's where you are going. To a place of eternal torture at the hands of demons. Being an athiest is illogical. Look, if you guys are right, and there is nothing when we die but eternal unconciousness, then we will never know. But if your wrong, then you'll know it forever. That's not a chance anyone should be willing to take. You fail to realise that there are thousands of religions that all make Hell-like threats and forbid you from practising other religions. Pascal's Wager is flawed in that respect. Never heard of Pascal's Wager, don't care about Pascal's Wager. I'm only thirteen. I obviously can't prove it to you since your too stuborn (that isn't either a compliment or a put-down, only a statement of fact), so I'm not going to try anymore. I'm only gonna debate for the fun of it. Go ahead, try any of those thousand religions. See what you get from it. This is the only one I've tried that I've found a sense of purpose and value from. I'm sticking with it. A song that explains this is "My Obsession" by Skillet. I only debate for the fun of it, as well. You did not ask, but I will explain Pascal's Wager in case you felt like finding out: Pascal's Wager is the argument that being an atheist is foolish, you might as well join Christianity. The idea goes that there is nothing to lose with becoming a Christian and everything to gain by getting the possibility of going to heaven. An atheist, on the other hand, has everything to lose by going to hell and nothing to gain. Of course, Pascal probably didn't know much of religions outside of Christianity when he wrote it, and quite frankly he was a bit too close-minded to think of it anyway. I personally think he should've stayed in mathematics. Anyways, the fact is that there are a lot of religions out there that make Hell-like threats, and Pascal's Wager could be applied to any one of those. So Pascal's Wager doesn't really help Christianity's case any. I hate it when people try to argue about something when they know nothing about it.Please, explain to me why my explanation of Pascal's Wager was incorrect. I realise I paraphrased, but I thought I got it basically right. Whoa, no. I was talking about Pascal, not you.GuardianAngel44 Quote: I'm an atheist. I find that to be the most fulfilling and objective path. I think there's a sense of integrity in it. A song that explains this is "Faithless" by Rush. And there isn't a sense of integrity in Christianity? Did I ever say there wasn't? neutral No, it just sounded like it at the time.
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:24 pm
GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar Lethkhar GuardianAngel44 Lethkhar You fail to realise that there are thousands of religions that all make Hell-like threats and forbid you from practising other religions. Pascal's Wager is flawed in that respect. Never heard of Pascal's Wager, don't care about Pascal's Wager. I'm only thirteen. I obviously can't prove it to you since your too stuborn (that isn't either a compliment or a put-down, only a statement of fact), so I'm not going to try anymore. I'm only gonna debate for the fun of it. Go ahead, try any of those thousand religions. See what you get from it. This is the only one I've tried that I've found a sense of purpose and value from. I'm sticking with it. A song that explains this is "My Obsession" by Skillet. I only debate for the fun of it, as well. You did not ask, but I will explain Pascal's Wager in case you felt like finding out: Pascal's Wager is the argument that being an atheist is foolish, you might as well join Christianity. The idea goes that there is nothing to lose with becoming a Christian and everything to gain by getting the possibility of going to heaven. An atheist, on the other hand, has everything to lose by going to hell and nothing to gain. Of course, Pascal probably didn't know much of religions outside of Christianity when he wrote it, and quite frankly he was a bit too close-minded to think of it anyway. I personally think he should've stayed in mathematics. Anyways, the fact is that there are a lot of religions out there that make Hell-like threats, and Pascal's Wager could be applied to any one of those. So Pascal's Wager doesn't really help Christianity's case any. I hate it when people try to argue about something when they know nothing about it.Please, explain to me why my explanation of Pascal's Wager was incorrect. I realise I paraphrased, but I thought I got it basically right. Whoa, no. I was talking about Pascal, not you.GuardianAngel44 Quote: I'm an atheist. I find that to be the most fulfilling and objective path. I think there's a sense of integrity in it. A song that explains this is "Faithless" by Rush. And there isn't a sense of integrity in Christianity? Did I ever say there wasn't? neutral No, it just sounded like it at the time. Ok, I think we're cool. burning_eyes
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:08 pm
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:28 am
Okay, getting back on topic. I've seen that a few people have mentioned Sheol as a place similar to Purgatory but separate from Hell. I thought Sheol was Hell. What's the general consensus here?
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:23 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:31 am
Rev Shrubbery Well, having been diagnosed with chronic depression, I might be able to bring that into this conversation. Hell is not only a separation from God but also a separation from everything except evil. During one of my more painful depressive periods I wrote in a journal that I was 'Separated from everything, even God himself seems to be gone." Of course, I was not separated from God--he remained very much active in my life even though I didn't think so. I also wasn't separated from being able to walk, breathe, have family, the library, &c. Given that the separation from some earthly things plunged me into a suicidal state of mind, I can only imagine what kind of inner and outer torture Hell would be in comparison. I think people who battle with chronic suffering in general are a little more afraid of Hell than those who do not, because there's an inevitable feeling of 'I've sufffered already; why do I have to go through this?' I know that many sucessful people--St Francis, Abraham Lincoln, Gandhi, Buddha, Darwin, and Einstein, just to name a few, endured drastic periods of depression. This caused them to value life all the more, and the value what they had even in the extreme cases of poverty and betrayal. I can relate in the sense that, having endured a period where I THOUGHT I experienced, but did not actually experience, the absence of God, I will do everything in my power to avoid actually having to go through that. I can identify with that so much. When I was fifteen or sixteen, my major depression began. My mom asked, and asked, and asked what was wrong until I finally wrote, "It feels like God left me." I do believe Hell is the absence of God, and that it is infinitely painful spiritually, mentally, and physically. Sometimes I question my salvation, so the thought of Hell terrifies me.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:44 am
Fushigi na Butterfly Okay, getting back on topic. I've seen that a few people have mentioned Sheol as a place similar to Purgatory but separate from Hell. I thought Sheol was Hell. What's the general consensus here? ....well... I think it's the same thing, it's DEFINATLY not purgatory. It literaly meant 'The Grave.' There is anotherHebrew word for Hell, Gehena, which means 'Lake of Fire.' If it's not Hell, then it's a place where the pre-Yeshua sous wait(Without pain) until jugment day... but I'm pretty sure it's Hell.
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