|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:11 am
I was just giving an example. It is probably alot less likely than that even. I'm just saying that it doesn't make a difference in the large sceme of things.
I mean, the way everyone else wants it is that they suffer in prison. If they are inoccent is it better for them to suffer in prison or die?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:34 am
For it:
I'm very eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. I think if you kill someone you deserve the same fate. It's really that simple.
<3
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:20 pm
marshjazz I was just giving an example. It is probably alot less likely than that even. I'm just saying that it doesn't make a difference in the large sceme of things. I mean, the way everyone else wants it is that they suffer in prison. If they are inoccent is it better for them to suffer in prison or die? If they're alive, they still have a chance for parol, or a chance for someone to relook at the case.
Last time I checked, the jails and prisons in the U.S. are called correctional facilities. How is it correcting to kill? What kind of message does that send to the world? What are we correcting by murdering people?
If your 1 and 1000 statistic was 'just an example', I'm forced to wonder if the rest of your information is 'just an example'. You can't make up statistics for an example. Take the time to actually search out what you're saying if you don't know it to be fact. You can't use a fake statistic, made up by you, as an example in a mature, intelligible debate.
The message I get out of the people who are for the death penality is usually along the lines of revenge. Revenge doesn't solve anything, it only feeds hate. Hate far from solves anything, it only creates conflict and problems. Is that what you really want?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:06 pm
Revenge does solve things for some people. For me revenge gives me peace of mind. That is the only type of peace that is achievable. Revenge doesn't solve anything for you, but it does for me.
It is correcting to kill, because it gets rid of the treat. And also achieves some sort of justice for the victim/victim family.
Once again, it was used for demonstration purposes. That one the grand sceme it doesn't matter. I wasn't using it as a statistic. Also, if I am using a real statistic, you'd probably see me link to the source. Unless I forget. If less people are commiting crimes, less innocent people will be killed. By killing everyone who has life sentence/death sentence we discourage crime, therefore lowering the people who commit crimes.
Murder's don't get parol, as far as I know. I wouldn't feel safe if they did. If everyone is convinced that they did it, who would relook at their case? Most cops/CSI/anyone involved in their case are too busy with new cases because of the high crime rate. They don't have time. The only way is if another murder/rape happened in the exact way, they'd relook at the file for inconsitency's and if none appeared, they probably wouldn't even open the case up again.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:53 pm
band4ever101 For it: I'm very eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. I think if you kill someone you deserve the same fate. It's really that simple. <3 Using that logic gets us nowhere because if in fact, a prisoner does get off, someone'll think that they should take the law into their own hands and go ahead and kill the prisoner and we'd have two murderers on our hands.
I don't think revenge solves anything. My iPod was stolen (even though I sorta got an idea about who might've stolen it), and if I took something, anything, of that person's it wouldn'tve have gotten my iPod back. And that's all I really want. If I stole my iPod back and got caught, it'd be kind ahard to explain "stealing it back," and I still probably wouldn't have gotten anything out of it. Yes, that was a pretty bad example but I'm an emotional wreck right now and not thinking straight, but i think you can kinda get the point, if not I'll explain it a different way later.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:23 pm
Yet again. I explain that that is you personally. Stealing back the ipod would do something for me. Of course I wouldn't steal the ipod back, I'd take something else. I hate ipods. Cheap overpriced pieces of crap.
Using that logic we'd have a dozens of prisoners running around on the street. If someone is truely guilty I trust that they will go to jail, and if they don't then they still deserve to die. Period. Killing a killer is different than killing for no reason.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:51 pm
Really, if murder is against the law, then why do cops murder people for murdering?? it's retarded....
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:00 pm
I wrote an essay on this subject.
I believe that the death penalty should be applied on cases with multiple murders; not for one murder (wether intentional or not), or any lesser crime. I think that if that person has had multiple offenses or committed an act of terrorism or the such, then it should be applied.
I've heard of the dp being applied to a rape case. I don't think that's right; I think they should stay in jail for 15+ years.
I also think that if the dp was applied more often, people would be discouraged to commit crimes worthy of capital punishment.
But I live in Canada, where I believe it's currently abolished. So. -shrug-
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:12 pm
marshjazz Revenge does solve things for some people. For me revenge gives me peace of mind. That is the only type of peace that is achievable. Revenge doesn't solve anything for you, but it does for me. It is correcting to kill, because it gets rid of the treat. And also achieves some sort of justice for the victim/victim family. Once again, it was used for demonstration purposes. That one the grand sceme it doesn't matter. I wasn't using it as a statistic. Also, if I am using a real statistic, you'd probably see me link to the source. Unless I forget. If less people are commiting crimes, less innocent people will be killed. By killing everyone who has life sentence/death sentence we discourage crime, therefore lowering the people who commit crimes. Murder's don't get parol, as far as I know. I wouldn't feel safe if they did. If everyone is convinced that they did it, who would relook at their case? Most cops/CSI/anyone involved in their case are too busy with new cases because of the high crime rate. They don't have time. The only way is if another murder/rape happened in the exact way, they'd relook at the file for inconsitency's and if none appeared, they probably wouldn't even open the case up again. I agree with Marsh on this one. Revenge at times brings peace of mind. If your family member was killed...most likely you would want the person who killed them to receieve the same treatment for what they did to that family member. You can't say honestly that if someone killed (for example) your mother...you would just be like "Oh well that sucks" and not mind if the person who did it was still on the street. You would want that revenge for your mother...and for anyone else who could have been murdered by that same person. It gives you peace of mind to know that they can't murder anyone else. I am firm in believing that we need the death penalty. If not for everyone. Atleast for murders, because I don't care who you are. If you kill someone, you deserve the same thing back. <3
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:17 pm
this is always a touchy topic. i couldn't willfully hurt another much less put them to death. i used to be a firm believer in the death penalty, but i once had a lot of anger, i've since learned to forgive.
the way i see it, if someone takes another persons life there is a reason (crime of passion or self defense) or the person is mentally ill and in either case death just isn't the answer. There is also the possibility that this person is nothing more than a natural born killer, there is no remorse, there is no feeling - nothing exists for this person beyond the malicious intent to cause other people pain and suffering. For me this falls under the category of mental illness, even though they may seem normal in every other way and may even possess a relatively high IQ.
i've asked myself what i would do if someone murdered my child and for the sake of argument we'll assume it is in the worst way imaginable - would i wish the person harm? initially yes, probably would i act upon that urge myself? i hope not would i want them put to death? no could i forgive them? i honestly hope so - forgiveness isn't a gift you give to that person, although that may likely be a by-product (in that persons eyes anyway) ... it is a gift you give to yourself. anger & hatred are poison and they eat away at you. time spent in this mortal coil is brief. when death is dealt to those tainted by a lifetime of malicious intent, there will be suffering enough.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:39 pm
I'm in the middle of all of this. I would understand why the instituted the death penalty. They made it as a way to remove that person from society. But as menace that one person is, they don't deserve to die. In killing this person, you've become no better than the convict him or herself. You've also created pain for that person's family, no matter if they're sex offenders, pirates (no not THOSE pirates -_-) or whatever, they still have family or friends who care for them. You cause the same pain to that family as they did to your or anybody elses.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:29 pm
@Band4ever: I never said that if somebody important to me got murderered I'd be like "oh well that sucks" and I wouldn't mind if the person stayed out on the street. In fact, I said quite the opposite. If someone close to me got murderered, I'd be devasted, and I'd want the murderer to be punished severly (I believe I've said this several times and I'm about sick of saying it so people stop arguing that), I just wouldn't want him to be put to death. Putting the murderer to death wouldn't give me any type of closure whatsoever. Especially if he dies before he answers the question, "Why?" I wouldn't want revenge either, because to me, revenge is childish. If they were locked up, I would have peace of mind that they couldn't murder anyone else.
@Ty: I agree with the mental illness. A lot of criminals are sociopaths and have anti-social personality disorder. People are still trying to figure how to cure it but it's going to take time, and if we kill off every prisoner that has this disorder how can we lern anything from it or how to stop future killers?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:06 am
@ Led: Good point. However I think it should be applied to rapist who have had multipule victims.
@Ty: Self deffense doesn't really constitute murder. However crimese of passion are iffy for me. I don't have an opinion on them. While they aren't likely to murder again, they can. And the majority of murders are crimes of passion. I wouldn't be sure how to punish that. I don't consider being "born to kill" a mental illeness. However if the person is mentally ill to the point that they don't know what they were doing then they still deserve to go to jail. Why? They didn't know what they were doing, they are just as likely to "not know what they are doing" again.
@Dan: That is the point of the death penalty. To cause them and the people are around the killer pain. The people around the killer, certainly didn't care about him enough before to stop him from commiting the crime. They must not be that close.
@AaKi: Once more - You think revenge is childish, that doesn't mean the majority of people think it is childish. It is natural for someone to want revenge for someone they are close to.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:53 am
Aakiyana @Band4ever: I never said that if somebody important to me got murderered I'd be like "oh well that sucks" and I wouldn't mind if the person stayed out on the street. In fact, I said quite the opposite. If someone close to me got murderered, I'd be devasted, and I'd want the murderer to be punished severly (I believe I've said this several times and I'm about sick of saying it so people stop arguing that), I just wouldn't want him to be put to death. Putting the murderer to death wouldn't give me any type of closure whatsoever. Especially if he dies before he answers the question, "Why?" I wouldn't want revenge either, because to me, revenge is childish. If they were locked up, I would have peace of mind that they couldn't murder anyone else.
@Ty: I agree with the mental illness. A lot of criminals are sociopaths and have anti-social personality disorder. People are still trying to figure how to cure it but it's going to take time, and if we kill off every prisoner that has this disorder how can we lern anything from it or how to stop future killers? I didn't say that was what you would say exactly. If you read my exact entry again. I said I was using an example. I didn't mean that is what you would actually say. But if you feel more comfortable with a murderer who killed a close family member still on the street free to kill again. That's fine. But the majority don't feel that way. <3
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:20 pm
marshjazz @ Led: Good point. However I think it should be applied to rapist who have had multipule victims. I would say that that's fair to a degree.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|