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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:31 am
Norayr Ok, let's see. Like I said before, rape is a very tricky case for abortion for pro-life (or me at least). Now I haven't been able to go too deep into this subject, but I'll try keep things going. So now that you've given me this response, I'm pretty sure you'd say that abortion is the only reasonable end in this situation. Ok. Say you did run the abortion. The baby's dead and the mother is child-free. This in no way has alleviated the mother of her memory of the rape. If anything at all, she'll remember this just about the same if she had the baby. After all, abortion isn't something you have everyday. Then there's the emotional and psychological trouble the abortion brings. In the society we live, people don't really talk about their troubles and whatnot. So instead of sharing her anxiety, fear, shame, etc, etc. She'll bury all her emotions which later will come back far greater than before. Ok, let's say she keeps the kid, but doesn't put him/her up for adoption. She can raise the kid on her own (but we all know how stressful that can be). If she really needs to take care of something other than the child, she can have her mother look after the kid. And I know that most grandmas love little kids. Even though it may be difficult to accept the rape-baby at first, they would grow fond of the little guy after a while. Now let's say that she does put the kid up for adoption. Forgive my ignorance, but isn't it going to be more important for her to give up her child rather than clinging on saying because of this traumatic experience of rape I had, I'm not going to trust anybody at all with this infant I have? I mean, she's going to have no means of support. So it's going to drag herself and her kid down. So in the best interest of everyone (best interest being keeping both of them alive and reasonably healthy), she'll have to give her child away. It's like one of those bandage moments. If you do it quick enough, it's not going to hurt so much. About that condom comment you made. Sperm/semen isn't a human. It's just the guy's DNA and stuff. So there's no killing of any kind (aside from killing the sperm) happening there. It's when the sperm fertilizes the egg that it's human.
I just know that if I were ever in a situation where I was raped and impregnated, I would not want the question lying in the back of my mind that the child conceived from unwanted sex is out there somewhere. What happens when a woman gives that child up, and finally moves on with her life? That child is going to turn 18 and wonder where the hell his mother is and why she gave him up. So now, the woman is faced with all the problems all over again because she gets a phone call from a teenager she gave up.
I'm not saying that abortion is NOT difficult for a person to deal with. But in the long run, a woman is going to be able to let the situation die if she can just get rid of everything that reminds her of what happened. For a lot of women, the reminder of being raped is ten times worse than the reminder they had an abortion.
As for the condom thing, I was just being a smartass. I could say the same thing about taking birth control, or having tubes tied or snipped.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:39 am
AmErIcAnSyKo Um.. When a woman goes through her menstral cycle, she's disposing of (killing) an innocent (potential) life..
A fetus, I consider to be the same thing. Potential life.
Scientifically, there are different levels of "aliveness" (for lack of a better word..). A plant is alive.. But not as alive as a monkey.
I consider a fetus to be in the plant area.. No conscience.. No feeling.. Not aware.
So if you think killing fetuses is wrong, then think of all those poor innocent blades of grass you cut in half every time you mow your lawn. You damn heartless bastards. D:<
neutral neutral Read it, Xyloid. I want your thoughts on my analysis.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:45 am
I know you were, Vick.
I'm just being annoying with that last part.
So you don't believe at all that good things can come out of something bad?
You're basically going to be antagonizing every aspect of this kid and the situation at hand?
Do you know for a fact that the abortion is really going to help the situation more than the alternative?
EDIT: because I've read many times how the act of abortion has made many young girls commit suicide at its worst.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:47 am
AmErIcAnSyKo AmErIcAnSyKo Um.. When a woman goes through her menstral cycle, she's disposing of (killing) an innocent (potential) life..
A fetus, I consider to be the same thing. Potential life.
Scientifically, there are different levels of "aliveness" (for lack of a better word..). A plant is alive.. But not as alive as a monkey.
I consider a fetus to be in the plant area.. No conscience.. No feeling.. Not aware.
So if you think killing fetuses is wrong, then think of all those poor innocent blades of grass you cut in half every time you mow your lawn. You damn heartless bastards. D:<
neutral neutral Read it, Xyloid. I want your thoughts on my analysis.
I think it's the thought of POTENTIAL human life that makes it human nature to want to preserve it.
Technically, the fetus is just a wad of cellular development that feeds from the mother like a parasite. But after only a matter of days the cell structure is developed enough to feel pain, but since it has no functioning brain or nervous system, it doesn't REGISTER the feeling as pain.
It would be like if you incubated a chicken egg for 3 days and then broke it on the ground. It's proven that plants feel pain as well, but not in the same way we feel it. They don't go 'OW, THAT HURT.' They just have a physical reaction, and a fetus would react the same way.
I would never, NEVER condone an abortion after the baby's brain and nervous system has developed to a point where it can register pain as... well, pain.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:52 am
Norayr I know you were, Vick. I'm just being annoying with that last part. So you don't believe at all that good things can come out of something bad? You're basically going to be antagonizing every aspect of this kid and the situation at hand? Do you know for a fact that the abortion is really going to help the situation more than the alternative? EDIT: because I've read many times how the act of abortion has made many young girls commit suicide at its worst.
I can't say that I know from experience that an abortion is a horrible thing that would send me into fits of suicidal depression. But after being raped, the last thing on a woman's mind is how much more pain could be caused by aborting the child that can only bring back bad memories.
I'm not saying that good things can't come from that child if he is kept, what I am saying is that it's the woman's right to choose if she wants the child or not. If she wants to give it up for adoption, alright. But if she would rather just bury everything that happened with the rape, she should be able to do that as well.
As far as the suicide thing, that is in the case of TEENAGERS. They are already emotional basketcases to begin with, without the added bonus of being a ******** and not wrapping it. Now, I know I'm being harsh right at that moment, but if they can't handle having a child or aborting the child, they shouldn't be having sex to begin with. I'm cruel and rooted to the spot with this opinion.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:07 pm
And that's what brings me to what I initially said.
People have no self-control and aren't ready, just jump into this sorta thing.
Then instead of living up to the consequences, they take the easy way out.
I mean this lack of responsibility proves that they're so immature.
And I stand firm in this. I don't care if I sound like a stubborn mule, it's what I believe.
But, see the problem with that is shortsightedness coupled with selfishness.
Yes, I can understand the woman was hurt. Yes she's going to have some issues dealing with people. Yes she's going to have difficulties with herself. But it's when she recognizes her problem, confronts it, and then overcomes it that she becomes stronger and better adapted. Having self-pity like that, and then something drastic like that is just a drain on the human herself.
Again, it's the woman's body, but then again, it's also the human's body inside her.
And I don't care what science says is human, but that entity inside her, the thing you call a bunch of cells or parasite, is a human.
But then this also opens up the whole debate of what a human is…
What a nice topic for another discussion.
EDIT: It is after all coming out of a human.
You can say the zygote has the potential to be a human. What else would it become? Human's have humans. It's not like you're going to see a snake slither out of her v****a. Humans only reproduce humans, and nothing else. So no matter what stage, it's human.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:28 pm
Truth be told no one will really have a definite opinion on the subject until you're somehow personally faced with it. That's all I'll say about that. I do however feel this topic in general may be a little over many users heads considering the general age for users on Gaia are 15 years of age and younger.
I am in no way saying this isn't a logical topic and well put together, just not something that aught to be talked about among 'children'.
In other words, I think it's time for a debate sub forum or views/opinions.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:32 pm
Ah! My Goddess Truth be told no one will really have a definite opinion on the subject until you're somehow personally faced with it. That's all I'll say about that. I do however feel this topic in general may be a little over many users heads considering the general age for users on Gaia are 15 years of age and younger.
I am in no way saying this isn't a logical topic and well put together, just not something that aught to be talked about among 'children'.
In other words, I think it's time for a debate sub forum or views/opinions. . Hopefully it won't ever have to come to that point. Yea, please do make that subforum. It'd be a nice addition to what we have. But I'm pretty sure we've got a good amount of people well over 15. They just don't feel like coming in. That or they're probably not on.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:36 pm
Norayr Ah! My Goddess Truth be told no one will really have a definite opinion on the subject until you're somehow personally faced with it. That's all I'll say about that. I do however feel this topic in general may be a little over many users heads considering the general age for users on Gaia are 15 years of age and younger.
I am in no way saying this isn't a logical topic and well put together, just not something that aught to be talked about among 'children'.
In other words, I think it's time for a debate sub forum or views/opinions. . Hopefully it won't ever have to come to that point. Yea, please do make that subforum. It'd be a nice addition to what we have. But I'm pretty sure we've got a good amount of people well over 15. They just don't feel like coming in. That or they're probably not on.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:42 pm
I know, I know.
I was making a point too.
Nice title for the subforum.
Could my old topic be moved here as well if I can find and resurrect it?
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:44 pm
Norayr I know, I know. I was making a point too. Nice title for the subforum. Could my old topic be moved here as well if I can find and resurrect it?
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:45 pm
Ah! My Goddess Norayr I know, I know. I was making a point too. Nice title for the subforum. Could my old topic be moved here as well if I can find and resurrect it? Ah! Grazie! Much love. I'll get to bringing it. Maybe two of them.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:58 pm
Norayr And that's what brings me to what I initially said. People have no self-control and aren't ready, just jump into this sorta thing. Then instead of living up to the consequences, they take the easy way out. I mean this lack of responsibility proves that they're so immature. And I stand firm in this. I don't care if I sound like a stubborn mule, it's what I believe. But, see the problem with that is shortsightedness coupled with selfishness. Yes, I can understand the woman was hurt. Yes she's going to have some issues dealing with people. Yes she's going to have difficulties with herself. But it's when she recognizes her problem, confronts it, and then overcomes it that she becomes stronger and better adapted. Having self-pity like that, and then something drastic like that is just a drain on the human herself. Again, it's the woman's body, but then again, it's also the human's body inside her. And I don't care what science says is human, but that entity inside her, the thing you call a bunch of cells or parasite, is a human. But then this also opens up the whole debate of what a human is… What a nice topic for another discussion. EDIT: It is after all coming out of a human. You can say the zygote has the potential to be a human. What else would it become? Human's have humans. It's not like you're going to see a snake slither out of her v****a. Humans only reproduce humans, and nothing else. So no matter what stage, it's human.
Let me put it this way:
When a person gets a cyst or a wart or anything else that bothers them, they get it removed. It's a wad of living human cells that isn't really anything except a wad of human cells.
And that is literally what a fetus is for about three months. It's a wad of human cells. The only reason people get so touchy about killing fetal cells over the cells in a cyst is that the fetal cells can grow into a baby. And the whole thing about subconsciously wanting to protect the species comes into play with abortion. It goes beyond religious beliefs and it goes beyond moral duty, and it goes straight to the point that humans want to preserve the species, just like every other animal on the planet.
@ Amanda : The age thing is a good point, but that is why I specifically said that I'm only dealing with intelligent responses. I'm not going to put up with a 14 year old running in here yelling IT R RONG CAUZE ITSA BABEE. The only people who have posted have had very good points, I think.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:36 pm
Norayr And that's what brings me to what I initially said. People have no self-control and aren't ready, just jump into this sorta thing. Then instead of living up to the consequences, they take the easy way out. I mean this lack of responsibility proves that they're so immature. And I stand firm in this. I don't care if I sound like a stubborn mule, it's what I believe. But, see the problem with that is shortsightedness coupled with selfishness. Yes, I can understand the woman was hurt. Yes she's going to have some issues dealing with people. Yes she's going to have difficulties with herself. But it's when she recognizes her problem, confronts it, and then overcomes it that she becomes stronger and better adapted. Having self-pity like that, and then something drastic like that is just a drain on the human herself. Again, it's the woman's body, but then again, it's also the human's body inside her. And I don't care what science says is human, but that entity inside her, the thing you call a bunch of cells or parasite, is a human. But then this also opens up the whole debate of what a human is… What a nice topic for another discussion. EDIT: It is after all coming out of a human. You can say the zygote has the potential to be a human. What else would it become? Human's have humans. It's not like you're going to see a snake slither out of her v****a. Humans only reproduce humans, and nothing else. So no matter what stage, it's human.
On the point of the raped woman, there have already been many points made. Many people don't simply suck it up and take the hit. They've been hurt, most people that have been raped were by people they trusted. They will go through nine months of pregnancy and hours of labor, almost total destruction of their bodies, and then they will have to fork out the money all alone with no father for a child they did not want to have? Does the woman deserve that kind of pain? Does the woman who was victimized deserve the medical bills for a mans actions? Does the woman deserve to raise a product of unwilling intercourse? Please, God never wanted that for his people, and as an avid studier of religions I will know that. It is why he set up the rules for not having abortion but death of the rapist and large amounts of payment to the raped woman by the rapists family, that certainly kept rapists at bay. Yet now, in this age where we follow only half Christian laws it will always seem to hurt the woman with little to no punishment to the rapist.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:24 pm
PRO-LIFE
The only reason a mother should have an abortion is if she or the baby's life was in crital condition. This should be prescribed by a doctor. Other than that no one should have an abortion. If the mother does not want the child, she can simply go through the nine months an give the baby to an adoption center.
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