Welcome to Gaia! ::

Membership in both guilds is one thing. Running to the other guild to insult someone when you know they can't defend themselves there (yet they can see it) is on a far different and lower level.

That may not have been the reason they joined the PLG in the first place, but that doesn't excuse their actions in this matter at all. Intent and outcome are rarely coincident, after all.

Truth is, certain people used the fact Mipsy isn't a member of the PLG to libel her from within it, knowing full well that it is viewable by the full public and that she couldn't go in and defend herself from their comments. That's akin to writing something about a girl on the wall in the boy's bathroom; she can't go in there and erase it, but anyone can read it.

That's what I take offense to.

SterileNeedles: Stop acting like Mipsy's the only one who has a problem with this, as if it's perfectly acceptable for guild members to slander each other in a place where they can't even defend themselves. I didn't have any reservations about having you banned when I was informed of the incident by another member, but I left it for Mipsy to handle herself. It's kind of hypocritical and too late to b***h about how she couldn't take it up with you personally when you couldn't even extend the same courtesy to her, don't you think?

I've seen cases where people accused her boyfriend of being her mule, made an account used mainly to troll her in the debate thread, and said all sorts of ridiculous s**t based on nothing but assumptions, but did she namedrop and wangst about it in a guild where the offending party could only see but not respond? Don't act like you're an unfortunate victim of OMG TEH DRAMA when you made the conscious choice to add to it. As Nethie would say, "don't let the doorknob sodomize you on the way out."

Attacking an idea in a signature is not the same as attacking a PERSON in a signature. For all that talk about how offensive Mipsy's banners are, no one has yet to say anything to refute them. I've seen pro-life homosexuals talk about how they can't adopt babies because oh noes, the evil choicers are aborting them all. It's also based on the concept of campaigning to have your rights recognized while taking away someone else's at the same time. Exactly how is that NOT reflective of "pro-life homosexuals: taking away women's rights so we can get ours?" When you claim to be a feminist while trying to take away the fundamental right to protect a woman's body, how can you claim to be fighting for equal rights? If you're going to spout the "well I believe a fetus is a person" line, then you're going to have to take into consideration that not even BORN people have the right to infringe on bodily integrity.

Waters: So instead of putting Mipsy back on your ignore list and saving yourself the heartache of reading her posts, you decided to join in on the slander while being one of the most vocal members to preach about how we're too mean and how we need to maintain friendly pro-life/pro-choice relations. Frankly, that is a**-backward. If you're going to accuse Mipsy of severe anger issues for daring to be passionate about about oppression that affects women as a whole, then I don't think I'm wrong in saying that you have severe doormat issues for constantly tip-toeing around pro-lifers in fear of intruding on their sensitivity. Especially when you were once thrown out of their guild to soothe the temper tantrums of a single member.

You did make a huge knee-jerk reaction by getting upset over the lack of abortion restrictions in Canada. They may not exist legally, but I can tell you from personal experience and looking up online clinic information that yes, Oki is correct in pointing out the influence of social stigma. Even popular metropolitan locations make their deadline way at 20 weeks, and there are entire provinces that don't have facilities to accomodate late-term abortions regardless of medical need. Those who can't find a Canadian doctor travel down to the U.S and pay around $5,000. There will always be people who don't discover their pregnancies until later, fetal defects that aren't detected earlier, and people who feel that abortion would be a safer and better alternative than giving birth or being cut open for a C-section, period. Even then, it isn't a flippantly made decision. The fact that 96.7% of all abortions taken place before 16 weeks really says something.

Aiko: This isn't just a case of people getting angry of dual membership, or else I'd be wasting my time tracking down and banning pro-choicers who are also members in the PLG. That doesn't mean I'm going to waste time accepting join requests from pro-lifers either, especially considering what we've experienced in the past. It becomes an entirely different issue when you have people using one guild as a haven to openly attack the members of another guild. If you're not causing any drama by trolling, then obviously this case doesn't apply to you.

And I'll repeat to you what I said to Sterile: stop acting like Mipsy's the only one who has a problem with this, as if it's perfectly acceptable for guild members to slander each other in a place where they can't even defend themselves. Name one instance where she has namedropped and attacked someone in a place where they were able to see what was going on, but were unable to respond. It obviously does make a difference when people can get banned by Gaia moderators for making personal attacks in private guilds. Instead of bringing it up with Mipsy herself or ignoring her, you chose to participate in the slander knowing fully well she couldn't reply. Those are the facts, regardless of how much you'd like to dodge that important detail.


Of course, it doesn't really work when people choose to step over the doormat and still track s**t all over the place. In your case, they threw you out completely which spoke volumes about what they thought of your "purpose." As for diplomacy and politeness? Kind of wasted and hypocritical when you exercise them selectively to join in a discussion and talk behind a member's back. And then you talk about how I excuse certain behaviour. The last time I checked, Mipsy didn't troll in here about pro-lifers she didn't like.


Which doesn't negate the fact that you made an initial generalization without thinking of the complex issues at hand, which was what I addressed.

My fault, which I have apologized for and has been rectified, was in allowing a Flame-y post by someone who is no longer a member here to remain up. My statement was simple observation and speculation as well noting that I have in the past added and removed people (in fact, over a 1000 people) from my ignore list. Don't act like I was name calling. My first(?) post in here is very much similar to my original post which has since been removed.

When the topic of a specific person came up, I mentioned that I believe that person has anger issues. Last I checked (which would be earlier today) such a statement is not Flaming and does not violate Gaia's ToS. I was not intending to offend anyone, but unfortunately my post when seen with the previous posts, did. As such, I did apologize, and will again. I am sorry that my speculation caused any undue harm or mental trauma to anyone, as it was never my intention to cause anyone stress over my thinking they might have some problems.

I am sure that everyone, in here and elsewhere, is mentally healthy, and I retract any statement I have previously made to the contrary. I know that I have many mental issues due to past trauma and that I have been working greatly on these problems. I cannot speak for anyone else, and so I will now publicly state that, so far as I know, everyone in here is a picture of mental health.

If anyone has an issue with me continuing to remain a member here, please tell me -- either in this or my thread, or by PM. I would not wish to cause more drama by being here, and so am more than willing to leave this Guild if people would feel more comfortable with that.

Babe, I ain't got any issues with you.
But the difference is plain.
You went about insulting her in a backhanded manner. You didn't take your problems with her to her, you chose to direct your complaints ... in the PLG.
Mipsy confronts people directly.
While I don't always agree, I certainly can respect the fact that she's willing to face people straight up.

I'm a little disappointed in our guild. I thought we were supposed to be celebrating choice and spreading knowledge not ripping at each other. I prefered when we got along ... or mostly anyway.

No one hates me anymore. Damn job.

I'm sorry to see this has happened.

I don't view the pro-life guild often so I had absolutely no clue this was going on. It's not that I am not interested in "broadening" my horizons in the abortion debate, it's just that my time is precious, I've already gone the "pro-life" route a long time ago, and I despise the religious and sexist conventions expected to hold up that pro-life ideology. Why waste my life getting mad at those same, tired old arguments.

Mipsy, I'm sorry to hear what happened to you. Despite what anyone says, despite any brushes you have with anyone (including me mrgreen ), I have observed you being a well-known long-time member of pro-choice guild, a fair staff member and I am confident that you know how to separate your personal opinion from "modding" (an ability that I don't see in many folk). smile

Remember we all have slip ups in attitude, and bad days. It still doesn't excuse people to be assholes, but knowing that we aren't always perfect hopefully allows us all to change ourselves for the better. As long as we try, that matters.

What watersmoon did in pro-life guild is not socially acceptable no matter what belief system you have. It's gossiping, catty behavior. It's cut-throat. Little that people who engage in those behaviors know is that the side that you tell negative things about another person to will also distrust you. To illustrate, she may be ratting on pro-choice members to pro-lifers, but it won't take pro-lifers long to figure out that she is not very trustworthy and harmonious to talk to and hang out with. In the end, she would likely hurt herself the most because all sides would alienate her before she decides who she wants to align with. That's the thing- I don't think she herself realizes how much she could hurt herself/her reputation when she engaged in said actions.

But since Watersmoon has tried to rectify the situation that we all forced her to confront, I think she should allow herself some time to truly pick a side and stick with it. Many people don't think she's getting helped by being called out now, but just running away by yapping to the opposing side is NOT solving any problems.