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 Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:27 pm
Hey everyone, sorry about the extended leave of absence, I've been vacationing and doing a number of other things. I picked this post becaused it seemed to be the most recent. Although I am generally against gay marriage, I'm not nearly as adamate about it as other topics of morality.
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Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:20 pm
Quote: I find men attractive, yet I know I'm not gay... how do you explain that? I also know I'm not bisexual. So I ask, finding the same sex attractive, isn't that a key to knowing if you're homosexual? If not then no person can be homosexual. Yet still, I don't consider myself gay. There is a difference between recognizing that a man is attractive and being attracted to a man. I see women all the time that I recognize as good looking, but I'd never actually want to date one. Quote: People aren't hurt from two people falling in love with the same sex. People are hurt from the insults that result from it. The reason why homosexuality doesn't work with conservatives for the most part is because they choose to purposely ridicule religion. Now I suppose it's okay to insult a person for being religious, but it's not okay to insult someone for being a homosexual. Haven't you seen all the animosity on these boards against people against gay marriage? I'll be honest, for a time I was okay with gay marriage, when I was about 15-16, but as time went on I decided that the continued bashing of religion was something I couldn't live with I get along with those who don't bash religoin just fine, the problem with the gay activists today is that they are purposely trying to incite those who believe in God against them, they're not trying to lead a change by example but a change by demands. There are many gay people that DON'T ridicule religion. Some of the most religious people in the world are gay. Just because a portion of the people for a cause are against religion, doesn't mean all are. The reason why some gay rights advocates ridicule religion is because so many people try and use it as a weapon to hurt the gay community. Quote: This is probably the worst argument because of the fact that we're completely forgetting about one thing. The only difference in race is color. The difference between sexes, a physical organ. I don't think you'll say that two cars are the different based of the color it was painted, you'd say they are different in the way they are built. Then why is it that many of the same arguments used against gay marriage were also used against interracial marriage? If there is such a huge difference between the two causes then why do sometimes almost identical aguments appear in both? Quote: I'm against anything that has to do with a**l sex. And this argument isn't really about marriage, it's about homosexuality in general. I'm against people thinking they are just born a certain way and can't do a thing about it. I for some reason believe that STD's were put here for a reason. For what reason I don't know... Either way, we'll never see eye to eye. And I'm against people who claim that its a choice, when they have no evidence to back it up. And if gay people say its not a choice, shouldn't that be the most convincing evidence. Obviously gay people have had a lot more experience with the issue than anyone else. Why should the burden of proof be given to gay people why should they have to prove their case to gain equal rights?
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:00 am
Here we are, this would be the thread Free was talking about.
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:41 am
Beware the Jabberwock Here we are, this would be the thread Free was talking about. It's so unfortunate you had to bring this back. I am still against homosexuality, just not against it politically. Anyway, homosexuality is something impossible to prove either way, but I can say that the man who said Homosexuality was incurable in the APA way back when... now believes it is curable if the person DOES want to change. But seriously... who wants to change? We live in a society that constantly tells us not to conform; so instead we stay as we are... Even so, this isn't the point; as long as I don't see any activists coming and calling the Bible "hate speech" and picketing at my church (or any other church for that matter) I've got no harsh words to say to any of them. People have the conscious choice to choose whether they want God or not, but people do not have the conscious choice to choose what temptations affect them. If people are affected by same-sex attractions, it's entirely up to them how they handle it, whether they choose to live for God, or they choose to live their own lifestyle. And no matter what, God still loves them either way, whether they go against Him or not. As a follower of God, I have to remember God gave us the choice to either follow Him, or follow the world, I'm not better than anyone else for following God because I'm still on the same level as everyone else, a born sinner. Christians are not special in anyway; and if they claim they are you have to realize they are no longer following God. Just thought I should put this to rest. Take care all.
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:41 pm
On the subject of "cure" there are many degrees. Elimination, reform, ignorance, supression, the list goes on. I believe in the power of one's will is the ultimate power in the universe. If you dream if you can conceive it, so if you're unhappy about your sexuality you can have it changed by yourself or by others.
Just my input.
Thanks for coming back again. I hate seeing good members dissapear for periods of time.
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:19 pm
I see no reason to allow gay marriage. I am firmly against it for several reasons.
First of all, can you name any moral homosexuals in the media who are not obnoxious? We have wonderful "representations" of the homosexual lifestyle on Queer as Folk, yet we have few shows where homosexuals appear as normal, well-to-do individuals (impressively, NYPD Blue is one of the few that does this). The government should not advocate immoral behavior under any circumstances. And by immoral, I mean by any major religion's standards, because the majority is who they ought to be concerned with.
Second, I do not believe, as a Catholic, that homosexual intercourse is a natural process. I believe that the components of our body are designed for specific functions, and that continuity of the species is a front-runner in this idea.
Finally, the bedrooms should stay out of the government. We accept heterosexuality to be the normal process, as it is the common process in society. If governments are not allowed to make rulings on bedroom behavior, bedroom behavior should not be added to the government's list of concerns.
P.S: If you classify me as an "extremist", then the same can be said about you. To me, advocating anything to the point that you need to mudsling and throw names at someone denotes an extremist, not just someone with different ideals.
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:42 pm
Protagonist I see no reason to allow gay marriage. I am firmly against it for several reasons. First of all, can you name any moral homosexuals in the media who are not obnoxious? We have wonderful "representations" of the homosexual lifestyle on Queer as Folk, yet we have few shows where homosexuals appear as normal, well-to-do individuals (impressively, NYPD Blue is one of the few that does this). The government should not advocate immoral behavior under any circumstances. And by immoral, I mean by any major religion's standards, because the majority is who they ought to be concerned with. Second, I do not believe, as a Catholic, that homosexual intercourse is a natural process. I believe that the components of our body are designed for specific functions, and that continuity of the species is a front-runner in this idea. Finally, the bedrooms should stay out of the government. We accept heterosexuality to be the normal process, as it is the common process in society. If governments are not allowed to make rulings on bedroom behavior, bedroom behavior should not be added to the government's list of concerns. P.S: If you classify me as an "extremist", then the same can be said about you. To me, advocating anything to the point that you need to mudsling and throw names at someone denotes an extremist, not just someone with different ideals. Though I agree that most people who are homosexuals in the media are extremely obnoxious, there are those that do try to live peacefully. I'm morally opposed to gay marriage as you are, but I prefer neutrality simply because as a human I can't judge a person. I also feel that if we are not to allow homosexuality, we should also make it a crime to drink, or to do many of the things people can do now a days simply because they rationalize it. In the Bible, I believe Jesus stated Luke 20:27-38 27Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28"Teacher," they said, "Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 29Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30The second 31and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32Finally, the woman died too. 33Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?" 34Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God's children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' 38He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." I don't believe Marriage is 100% a Biblical institution. However, I believe homosexuality is a sin. According to Jesus, we are not married in heaven, so whatever a person does here on Earth is temporary, a marriage in itself is only binding for the mortal life we live here on Earth, and not the life we have in Heaven. In a sense, I believe that the people who are gay, if they by some chance make it to heaven because of ignorance, but have a true heart that would truly admit repentance, they will become straight in heaven (though I don't believe in sexual orientation). When God made Adam and Eve, it was already claimed in Genesis 2:24 that man should be with woman, anything else is going against God. Adam and Eve were not exactly married, they were unionized by God, an institution greater than marriage. But this is just my perspective.
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:53 pm
Thanks for the verses, I'm going to have to save the one from Luke for later.
Very educational...
I know I've stated it before, but since this thread has been empty for months, and because I hate to make such a small post, I'm going to reaffirm my position:
I believe that homosexual acts are immoral, but I do not believe that the church should come into the state. So I don't believe that gay marriages should be made illegal. However, on the flipside, I believe that the state should keep it's nose out of the church as well, so I don't believe that gay marriages should be made specifically legal either. I think it should be left up to the religions, and the state should give legal marriages to homosexuals.
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:37 am
Protagonist I see no reason to allow gay marriage. I am firmly against it for several reasons. First of all, can you name any moral homosexuals in the media who are not obnoxious? We have wonderful "representations" of the homosexual lifestyle on Queer as Folk, yet we have few shows where homosexuals appear as normal, well-to-do individuals (impressively, NYPD Blue is one of the few that does this). The government should not advocate immoral behavior under any circumstances. And by immoral, I mean by any major religion's standards, because the majority is who they ought to be concerned with.
However, I still disagree with you. If you look on shows such as "America's Next Top Model", you see several very professional gay individuals who are good at their jobs and who make a lot of money. Even Will and Grace has Will, a well-to-do lawyer. He's a little effeminate, but what gay man isn't?
And plus, just to let you know, Queer as Folk is NOT an accurate depiction of gay people. It's like a Gay soap opera-- Dramatically heightened.Quote: Second, I do not believe, as a Catholic, that homosexual intercourse is a natural process. I believe that the components of our body are designed for specific functions, and that continuity of the species is a front-runner in this idea.
No, not really.
I just wanted to show you how ridiculous it looks from my side.
You can be Catholic, Christian, it doesn't matter. I love religion. I just don't love how some people seem to think that they have the right to tell me who I can't marry just because it's against their morals.
I'm glad I live in Canada, where gay marriage is nice and legal, and where people don't look at me, and consider me to be not in my bounds to have the same rights as straight people.
Sex is not JUST for the continuation of the human race, otherwise we would not HAVE condoms, or birth control. Clearly, some people just don't want to continue the human race.Quote: Finally, the bedrooms should stay out of the government. We accept heterosexuality to be the normal process, as it is the common process in society. If governments are not allowed to make rulings on bedroom behavior, bedroom behavior should not be added to the government's list of concerns.
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:40 am
I.Am Thanks for the verses, I'm going to have to save the one from Luke for later. Very educational... I know I've stated it before, but since this thread has been empty for months, and because I hate to make such a small post, I'm going to reaffirm my position: I believe that homosexual acts are immoral, but I do not believe that the church should come into the state. So I don't believe that gay marriages should be made illegal. However, on the flipside, I believe that the state should keep it's nose out of the church as well, so I don't believe that gay marriages should be made specifically legal either. I think it should be left up to the religions, and the state should give legal marriages to homosexuals.
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:28 am
Mcphee First of all, when did the media ever allow for an accurate depiction of all minorities? I mean, really, if you're looking through the media for an extremely positive view of homosexuals, look elsewhere. Does the fact that one must dig further suggest anything? Mcphee However, I still disagree with you. If you look on shows such as "America's Next Top Model", you see several very professional gay individuals who are good at their jobs and who make a lot of money. Even Will and Grace has Will, a well-to-do lawyer. He's a little effeminate, but what gay man isn't? What does a homosexual individual have to gain from acting homosexual outside of the bedroom? It is obnoxious for them to do so. Mcphee And plus, just to let you know, Queer as Folk is NOT an accurate depiction of gay people. It's like a Gay soap opera-- Dramatically heightened. Well, it is one of the few depictions out there. Quote: Second, I do not believe, as a Catholic, that homosexual intercourse is a natural process. I believe that the components of our body are designed for specific functions, and that continuity of the species is a front-runner in this idea. Mcphee Sex is not JUST for the continuation of the human race, otherwise we would not HAVE condoms, or birth control. Clearly, some people just don't want to continue the human race. Post hoc ergo propter hoc. The nature and properties of sex were defined long before the invention of condoms, etc. Mcphee Hm. I don't know exactly what you were trying to say here, but the government SHOULD stay out of bedrooms. When you classify someone's legal, consensual, adult sexual relationship as against God, or wrong, or disgusting, or the marriage of that relationship unlawful, you are setting a precedent for discrimination, pure and simple. That is NOT what the government should be doing. So should a government be making accomodations for a special, minority bedroom type? The laws should be centered around the majority (not saying that the minority should be outlawed by the government, just that they shouldn't get special exceptions). The majority of people are not homosexuals, so laws relating to sexuality and relationships should not be created for homosexuals.
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:36 am
I.Am Thanks for the verses, I'm going to have to save the one from Luke for later. Very educational... I know I've stated it before, but since this thread has been empty for months, and because I hate to make such a small post, I'm going to reaffirm my position: I believe that homosexual acts are immoral, but I do not believe that the church should come into the state. So I don't believe that gay marriages should be made illegal. However, on the flipside, I believe that the state should keep it's nose out of the church as well, so I don't believe that gay marriages should be made specifically legal either. I think it should be left up to the religions, and the state should give legal marriages to homosexuals. I agree with this quote.
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:41 am
Beware the Jabberwock I.Am Thanks for the verses, I'm going to have to save the one from Luke for later. Very educational... I know I've stated it before, but since this thread has been empty for months, and because I hate to make such a small post, I'm going to reaffirm my position: I believe that homosexual acts are immoral, but I do not believe that the church should come into the state. So I don't believe that gay marriages should be made illegal. However, on the flipside, I believe that the state should keep it's nose out of the church as well, so I don't believe that gay marriages should be made specifically legal either. I think it should be left up to the religions, and the state should give legal marriages to homosexuals. Actually there's more going on than that in Canada. The Bible in some districts is now considered hate speech.
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:42 am
FreeArsenal I.Am Thanks for the verses, I'm going to have to save the one from Luke for later. Very educational... I know I've stated it before, but since this thread has been empty for months, and because I hate to make such a small post, I'm going to reaffirm my position: I believe that homosexual acts are immoral, but I do not believe that the church should come into the state. So I don't believe that gay marriages should be made illegal. However, on the flipside, I believe that the state should keep it's nose out of the church as well, so I don't believe that gay marriages should be made specifically legal either. I think it should be left up to the religions, and the state should give legal marriages to homosexuals. I agree with this quote. I do, and don't, agree with it. I don't think homosexual marriages should be legal, period. Whether by state or by church, they shouldn't be allowed anywhere.
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:45 am
Xiterrose FreeArsenal I.Am Thanks for the verses, I'm going to have to save the one from Luke for later. Very educational... I know I've stated it before, but since this thread has been empty for months, and because I hate to make such a small post, I'm going to reaffirm my position: I believe that homosexual acts are immoral, but I do not believe that the church should come into the state. So I don't believe that gay marriages should be made illegal. However, on the flipside, I believe that the state should keep it's nose out of the church as well, so I don't believe that gay marriages should be made specifically legal either. I think it should be left up to the religions, and the state should give legal marriages to homosexuals. I agree with this quote. I do, and don't, agree with it. I don't think homosexual marriages should be legal, period. Whether by state or by church, they shouldn't be allowed anywhere. I wish humans had the intelligence to see how empty the Gay Right's movement really is, but they don't. Nothing against homosexuals, I just find that a lot of their arguments only center upon their own perspective rather than the perception of everyone else. But I must admit, their propoganda tactic really is working, more people now than ever are starting to support gay marriage, it's happened in less than 10 years. In 1995, I doubt any of these things can even be dreamed of.
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