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Tags: World of Darkness, Vampire, Werewolf, Changeling, Promethean 

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Which do you prefer:
Old World of Darkness
90%
 90%  [ 10 ]
New World of Darkness
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 11


sven_the_warrior
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:57 am


You know, I don't play mortals very often. When I do, it's usually a kinfolk in a Wild West game. It's a lot of fun to play a cowboy in the old west, even if you're not a werewolf.

I also find it more challenging. The ordinary challenges that the pack can breeze through would destroy you, so you have to be smarter in order to cope.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:07 pm


Why NWoD is a Good Thing.

Okay. This may seem a little disjointed, I may miss points that have been brought up already or say things that’ve already been said, but I’m writing this at work (where I don’t have access to Gaia), and work is where I write my Essays.

This is for 2 reasons – the first being that it gives me chance to think things through fully, the second is that last time I posted here, it was at 1 in the morning and my girlfriend was ready to kill me. Also, I’m mainly referencing Vampire in this, but that’s merely for the sake of good examples.

Okay, first of all, the “White Wolf made all my books worthless” argument.

I hate this argument, seriously, mainly because it doesn’t make a huge amount of sense. It’s like criticising Sony when they released the PS2 because it meant all the money you’d spent on PSone games was wasted.

Just because they aren’t being officially supported anymore, doesn’t mean they’re worthless, it doesn’t stop you playing them, doesn’t stop you writing campaigns, re-reading old books or trying to track down the last few (infact, as they’re being released cheaply as PDFs, tracking down that odd missing book is now even easier).

I play Wraith, so I’m used to this anyway – by the time I started playing they’d pretty much ended the setting. Never gave me any trouble though (infact, in some ways it helped – there was a wealth of fan-made supplements available, now WW weren’t doing anymore).



Next “They’re forcing me to buy a load of new books to keep playing”

A lot of what I said about the last argument holds true here – you don’t have to buy them, and there’s nothing stopping you playing the OWoD.

Also, have you ever stopped to think what the alternative would entail?
We were due a new edition, that’s undeniable – Revised is 10 years old now, so you’d be buying new Core books for the games, but on top of that, they’d need to re-release all the supplements – I’d need to buy another 12 Clanbooks (13 if they did Ravnos) no question, which would leave me with 3 copies of what’s essentially the same book. That’s a total of 38 books in total, if I pay £10 (about $5) each, that’s £380, £120 for the new ones (and that’s not including Vamp4), and I’d only be paying £80 for the 4 core NWoD books, so it’s cheaper too!



“There’s no Tremere – so NWoD sucks!”

…can I change my mind again over which argument I hate the most?
I mean seriously, if the only way you can think of playing a Untrustworthy, Arcane Vampire is by picking the “Untrustworthy Arcane Vampire Clan”, you’re really not using your imagination, It’s Clan-Stereotyping at it’s worst.

Now I don’t have the books with me (as I mentioned, I’m at work), but I’m pretty sure there’s magic using groups in Requiem (Circle of the Crone or Lancea Sanctum?). That’s the System out the way, and as I’m pretty sure being Untrustworthy and Devious isn’t Clan-exclusive, the Clan section’s pretty much a moot point.

Also, the entire thing reeks of Wanting To Screw Over The Other Players – like playing a Thief in D&D so you can steal everyone else’s equipment. Which I can assure you, wasn’t even funny the first time.



“I preferred the old setting”
Damn right. Me too, but there’s only so much further they could push it – I mean think about it, what with the whole Impending Gehenna thing – in the last 10 years, the Red Star appeared, an Antediluvian rose and a Clan was wiped out. This would give them three options for Vamp4

1: Nothing happens – Gehenna just doesn’t happen, the signs go away or die down. This means the Sabbat collapses (as they’ve nothing to fight against), and one of the main themes is gone.

2: Gehenna does come – Sure, it could be kinda cool if Vamp4 was based Post-Gehenna, but that pretty much involves re-writing the setting anyway, and by that point you’re pretty much playing a completely different game anyway.

3: Gehenna keeps Being Soon – this probably would have been the most likely option, but also the worst – events would need to escalate to keep the mood, which would dramatically change the setting – the Red Star getting much bigger/closer, another Antediluvian or two turning up (probably Tzimitze, which pretty much wipes NY off the map), which leads to the decimation of more Clans, then after a few years they’re forced to end the world Anyway, as it’s constantly raining blood, the Red Star reached earth and there’s only one clan left!

NWoD of course, has the advantage that The End Of The World isn’t a main theme, they’ve not written themselves into a corner this time

Also, a few positive points

The New Book System:
I mean seriously, this is great. I know they’d have done it, even if they hadn’t created NWoD (because they did it with Exalted), but still! I don’t skip half my book because I’ve already read it in a different one. Great stuff!

Less Clans:
I know, I know – when you include all the minor bloodlines there’s more than there’s ever been, but you’ve got to remember – these are optional, for a first time player, having 5 to choose from it much easier than the 13, and, after a bit of experience, they can look at the Bloodlines, maybe choose something else – it’s a gentler learning curve and means it’s easier to bring in new players.

And on top of that, there’s less Clan-Stereotyping – back in the old days, if you wanted to be a Biker you were Brujah, Businessmen were Ventrue, Artists were Toreador – it was all very Cut-and-Paste, but with less options there’s more Lee-way for variation, which is always a good thing.

So. Will I be buying the NWoD books?
Probably not. I’ve got the core ones and they’re interesting, Werewolf I’m especially fond of (and possibly prefer it over Apocalypse), but I’ve spent a LOT of money on WW over the years, and it’s the perfect excuse to stop – there’s a lot of other games out there I like, and I’d much prefer to spread my collection out – pick up some more sourcebooks, Unknown Armies or the Serenity RPG…

Also. Do I have a point?
Nah, not especially, this is just how I feel about this, and mostly written just to kill time at work.

johnmcfloss


sven_the_warrior
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:49 am


You have some fair points about Vampire, but I don't think you'll convince me about werewolf.

Apocalypse is just too damn awesome, and the new version sucks too bad. They make "Gaia's warriors" into sissies that can get beat by vampires. What's up with that?

Part of the fun of werewolf is that they're not on an equal level with vampires. They can destroy them physically, but they're not nearly as well connected. That means when you fight vampires you will always be outnumbered and have the worse position.

I had a pack that was trying to fight it's way to the top of a pentex building. However, the vampire that was running it decided to do things a bit differently.

He placed barricades in the hallway, ones that even the big burly garou couldn't break down easily.

Then he put a bunch of guards, with rifles, and silver bullets behind those barricades, shooting through holes.

They knocked out our Alpha in the first round of firing, and crippled our philidox.

The rag tried to get close to then, ran at the barricade and managed to get below their line of fire, but then he was pinned. Even in Crinos he couldn't get at them through the barricade.

What eventually happened is the leader woke up a bit, got a bright idea, and told the Ahroun what to do. He went to the umbra, walked past the barricade, which had no spiritual form, and went back, right in the middle of the enemy group.
Naturally he had to spend temporary gnosis to do so, because it was a totally weaver infested place, but it worked. They were gone before they could blink.

It's that kind of thing that made the game fun. You're a walking death machine, yes, but that can't be everything. You need to have teamwork and tactics or you're screwed.

It got even trickier later on because once they got on the roof they found that several of their companions had been captured and were being held hostage in a helecopter, which was also shooting at them. They won, eventually, but it was an interesting fight.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:21 am


I think part of the problem with comparing the two, is they're almost entirely different settings - Vampire's pretty much the same type of game, only with different Clans and a couple of tweaks (I cant comment on Mage, I've had the original version for at least 5 years and only just figured out what's actually going on)

Personally, I like the new Werewolf because I love the more Urban feel to it and how it handles Crinos form, but that's more a matter of taste than anything else, so both as equal as eachother

johnmcfloss


sven_the_warrior
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:15 pm


Precisely.

They kill the spirit of the garou. They're rats, not wolves.

Vampire changed the rules, but didn't change the nature of vampires. Werewolves are completely different beasts in the new game. They're not garou anymore, they're something else.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:39 pm


A Pentex-owned building with no nasty wyrm-spirits lying in wait beyond the veil?

That was one lucky pack. smile )

Aienn


johnmcfloss

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:34 pm


Best Pentex building I had was filled with Fomori.
Sure, the Werewolves killed them all, but there's nothing funner than a mutant with a bomb in the heads...
The players decapitated everything they killed from then on it twisted

I think the main thing I like about the new Werewolf, is it's not a replacement, y'know? If I want to play Vampire, it's a definate choice between the two, but if I want to play Werewolf, I just ask "Urban or Gaia" and the choice is clear.

Definatley, now I think about it - it's the whole Not A Replacement thing.

Which may mean I'd like Promethius. That any good?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:00 am


Aienn
A Pentex-owned building with no nasty wyrm-spirits lying in wait beyond the veil?

That was one lucky pack. smile )


Yeah, there were spirits, but they really didn't stand a chance. Neither did the humans, once the Ahroun Circumvented the barrier.

The general rule of thumb with this particular character is that if he can reach it, it's gone. And that certainly applied here. He was the scariest character I've ever seen.

sven_the_warrior
Captain


K.I

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:50 am


I was brought into this world a nWoD player and I will die a nWoD and I just find it weird to play Old system for me, I don't know, but for some reason nWoD just feels better, I LOVE W:tF and I'm not big on Apocalypse or Vtm I like the new stuff and the new system lol. I find it funny that the organization that I'm with; that when I played with the Camarilla guys how different it was but it was fun. I'm an Actor and the way White-wolf makes the game more about social interaction rather than the battle aspect of it well its awesome. Long story short New system is awesome, I like the game better. I also really like that Wolves, Vampires, Changelings, Mages, and Promethean can all scare the piss out of each other. LARPing with Cammi and LARPing with the ITA is amazing and it has fused me to the new system with much love.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:46 am


Larping with ITA? I have to ask what does that stand for or am I just being stupid foreign?

Schutzhund

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Carnamagos
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:28 pm


ITA = Imaginary Theatre Association. They're a bunch from Canada-eh who do LARP and hit anime conventions.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:28 pm


I gotta say I'm one of those wierd people who don't mind which system between old and new (and again - using vampire as it's my focus) I started on Requiem and Masquerade at essentially the same time, and frankly haven't played through anything yet (In another thread I mentioned my inablility to get a IRL game going) so I can't comment on mechanics, however, in terms of storyline, I much prefer the the Reqiem version:

1. No Gehenna. Don't get me wrong, Gehenna was all well and good when WW was first writing their books back in '95, but by the time you get up to millenium when its all supposed to hit the fan, well there goes your game. Requiem seems that much more bleak when you see that the chars have nothing to look forward to but an eternity of the same darkness without end.

2. Fewer Clans. I'll admit, I miss some of the more interesting clans of Masquerade (Malkavian and Tzimce were particularly compelling for me - although I'm a Toreador at heart) and its a shame they're no longer around, but WW left the door wide open for you to go ahead and make your own bloodline to recreate them. Fewer clans means more variety within the clans - which I like. the remaining clans are also far more different, as opposed to some of the more superficial divisions in the old version.

3. No definate creation myth. I didn't really like that in the old version, the existance of the kindred was solely explained by God's curse - Where does that leave those who prefer to leave such entities out of our games? Frankly any god watching over the World of Darkness must be a pretty friggin' crappy one. In the new version, the focus is less on how vampires came about (although for the remaining religious sect i do wish they'd left it with the mark of Cain, instead of the stupid Longinus thing - that was weak.)

That's all I can think of for now, but as I said at the beginning, I don't mind either system - each has its merits and flaws, so I tend to bother less with details and delve more into character.

Gabryl-Kaine


Brandi West

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:16 am


I will only speak for Werewolf.

I only play W:tA.

I do not acknowledge the existence of W:tF (in which the initials are at least, fitting), and I do not like the Cook version.

I only play W:tA.

That's my say on things.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:08 pm


Eh, NWoD, FTW.
I played Apocalypse, its what got me into the WoD, but I didn't stay with it long enough to get hooked with that system. I got a NWoD book, VtR, and ever since then, I've been in the new generation.
Gotta change with the times.

Hellsing666x


NuclearOops

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:03 am


Wow, it's kinda good to see the new system getting some praise.

Personally I'm an OWoD fan, however I do like the balancing edge to the NWoD. This makes cross-overs far more doable.

I'd be happy to see them try to fuse the two systems a little more, I liked the Path system, but I also appreciate blood potency over generation.

At the same time, it'd be nice to get a discipline supplement that contains every discipline with levels over 5. Make it for ST's, not that it'll stop players from looking at it, but it would make having a higher blood potency more worthwhile.
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