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Blind Guardian the 2nd

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:34 pm


KilledbyKarma
It's really the whole 'Well that saves the lives of people he would have killed in the future' kind of thing.


Putting him in prison does that too.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:20 pm


Blind Guardian the 2nd
KilledbyKarma
It's really the whole 'Well that saves the lives of people he would have killed in the future' kind of thing.


Putting him in prison does that too.


It also takes up too much space, and if you ask me, prison is bullshit. My ex girlfriend was raped, the guy went to prison.....for 3 months. If it was up to me he would have been in for a MINIMUM of 10 and castrated before he got there.



Also, about your comment on all the soldiers that died and such, I agree completely, the way this was achieved was completely wrong. If I was the president I would have never ordered my armed forces to run head first into a slaughter like that. More precise bombing runs, some tactical weaponry, drone planes, ect and there would be far far less people dead right now. But Bush thinks these are the old days when you grab your musket and run into battle XD

[BlkCat]


Joshua_Ritter
Crew

Dapper Genius

PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:26 pm


[BlkCat]
Blind Guardian the 2nd
KilledbyKarma
It's really the whole 'Well that saves the lives of people he would have killed in the future' kind of thing.


Putting him in prison does that too.


It also takes up too much space, and if you ask me, prison is bullshit. My ex girlfriend was raped, the guy went to prison.....for 3 months. If it was up to me he would have been in for a MINIMUM of 10 and castrated before he got there.



Also, about your comment on all the soldiers that died and such, I agree completely, the way this was achieved was completely wrong. If I was the president I would have never ordered my armed forces to run head first into a slaughter like that. More precise bombing runs, some tactical weaponry, drone planes, ect and there would be far far less people dead right now. But Bush thinks these are the old days when you grab your musket and run into battle XD

If you want a logistical arguement, the fact is that in America, only major industrialized country with the death penalty, it costs a lot more to go through the appeals process to kill someone then it does to feed and clothe them for the rest of their lives. Several million more. I can't imagine it helps Iraq finantially, as well. As for the rape charge, I agree and disagree. But I don't think in those cases many rapists get the death penalty, so I don't know if the arguement applies.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:38 pm


[BlkCat]
Blind Guardian the 2nd
KilledbyKarma
It's really the whole 'Well that saves the lives of people he would have killed in the future' kind of thing.


Putting him in prison does that too.


It also takes up too much space, and if you ask me, prison is bullshit. My ex girlfriend was raped, the guy went to prison.....for 3 months. If it was up to me he would have been in for a MINIMUM of 10 and castrated before he got there.



Also, about your comment on all the soldiers that died and such, I agree completely, the way this was achieved was completely wrong. If I was the president I would have never ordered my armed forces to run head first into a slaughter like that. More precise bombing runs, some tactical weaponry, drone planes, ect and there would be far far less people dead right now. But Bush thinks these are the old days when you grab your musket and run into battle XD


Rape isn't a matter of prison, it's a matter of proving they did it. Most rape accusations do not result in convictions.

I'm sorry, but what in the blue hell is castration going to do? Yeah, cut his balls off. I'm sure that will make him LOVE society and not lash out again in an even worse way. rolleyes

I think you will find Bush probably had very little in the way the battle was fought. Also, if there was a way of losing less lives, don't you think it would have been done? Are you more qualified than the Commanders currently? Fact is, there are only two ways to fight in a city. Bomb it to s**t, and kill millions of civilians, or send in infantry and minimize civilian casualties. And that's exactly what happened.

Blind Guardian the 2nd


Joshua_Ritter
Crew

Dapper Genius

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:02 pm


Blind Guardian the 2nd
[BlkCat]
Blind Guardian the 2nd
KilledbyKarma
It's really the whole 'Well that saves the lives of people he would have killed in the future' kind of thing.


Putting him in prison does that too.


It also takes up too much space, and if you ask me, prison is bullshit. My ex girlfriend was raped, the guy went to prison.....for 3 months. If it was up to me he would have been in for a MINIMUM of 10 and castrated before he got there.



Also, about your comment on all the soldiers that died and such, I agree completely, the way this was achieved was completely wrong. If I was the president I would have never ordered my armed forces to run head first into a slaughter like that. More precise bombing runs, some tactical weaponry, drone planes, ect and there would be far far less people dead right now. But Bush thinks these are the old days when you grab your musket and run into battle XD


Rape isn't a matter of prison, it's a matter of proving they did it. Most rape accusations do not result in convictions.

I'm sorry, but what in the blue hell is castration going to do? Yeah, cut his balls off. I'm sure that will make him LOVE society and not lash out again in an even worse way. rolleyes

I think you will find Bush probably had very little in the way the battle was fought. Also, if there was a way of losing less lives, don't you think it would have been done? Are you more qualified than the Commanders currently? Fact is, there are only two ways to fight in a city. Bomb it to s**t, and kill millions of civilians, or send in infantry and minimize civilian casualties. And that's exactly what happened.

You forgot the third option, and let me just say, three words: Send the Terminators.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:03 pm


Just wanted to add that even though the quality sucked...I saw the whole thing on youtube <3

[BlkCat]


Blind Guardian the 2nd

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:57 am


[BlkCat]
Just wanted to add that even though the quality sucked...I saw the whole thing on youtube <3


Congratulations. You've now turned real death into a form of entertainment.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:25 am


Blind Guardian the 2nd
[BlkCat]
Just wanted to add that even though the quality sucked...I saw the whole thing on youtube <3


Congratulations. You've now turned real death into a form of entertainment.


*dittos*
*wonders if television programs do that too*

TLB


iolitefire

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:46 pm


All righty, my cultural anthropology side cries out in response to this stuff.

The different views we have on Saddam's death are all pretty different and such. People defend their views based on their own worldview and cultural bias.
You have to keep in mind though that the Iraqi government made the decision to kill Saddam (like someone else already said). Iraq is a country quite different from ours (duh). Their beliefs, history, traditions, and culture are things that we can't always understand.
So you don't believe in the death penalty, well so what? That doesn't mean other people have to not like it too. Maybe in their culture or religion killing criminals is acceptable. Its ok to kill bad man, in fact your supposed to kill bad man. Who are we to say their cultural views are wrong?

Also, I hear the argument that America is the only civilized country that practices the death penalty. Well, we also have one of the most lenient systems too. Have you seen prisons? Three meals a day, television, gym, library, etc. Jeez. There's homeless familys who'd love that.

Yeah, other countries may not do the death penalty, but they can have really nasty punishments that can include whippings, beatings, dirty slimey prisons, etc.

Whether or not you believe in harsh punishments, many countries and cultures have done those kinds of things for thousands of years. It's pretty ethnocentric to expect them to stop because "it isn't right" or because we spit Gandhi quotes at them.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:05 pm


iolitefire
All righty, my cultural anthropology side cries out in response to this stuff.

The different views we have on Saddam's death are all pretty different and such. People defend their views based on their own worldview and cultural bias.
You have to keep in mind though that the Iraqi government made the decision to kill Saddam (like someone else already said). Iraq is a country quite different from ours (duh). Their beliefs, history, traditions, and culture are things that we can't always understand.
So you don't believe in the death penalty, well so what? That doesn't mean other people have to not like it too. Maybe in their culture or religion killing criminals is acceptable. Its ok to kill bad man, in fact your supposed to kill bad man. Who are we to say their cultural views are wrong?

Also, I hear the argument that America is the only civilized country that practices the death penalty. Well, we also have one of the most lenient systems too. Have you seen prisons? Three meals a day, television, gym, library, etc. Jeez. There's homeless familys who'd love that.

Yeah, other countries may not do the death penalty, but they can have really nasty punishments that can include whippings, beatings, dirty slimey prisons, etc.

Whether or not you believe in harsh punishments, many countries and cultures have done those kinds of things for thousands of years. It's pretty ethnocentric to expect them to stop because "it isn't right" or because we spit Gandhi quotes at them.

Yes, but this doesnt allow us to become totally subjective based on culture, nor would we let it. If another culture had a rousing slave trade, would we sit back and say, "Well, that's not what we feel is right, but more power to you." The entire idea of an international law and of a criminal government is that certain things are unacceptable, no matter what.

Joshua_Ritter
Crew

Dapper Genius


Blind Guardian the 2nd

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:30 pm


iolitefire
All righty, my cultural anthropology side cries out in response to this stuff.

The different views we have on Saddam's death are all pretty different and such. People defend their views based on their own worldview and cultural bias.
You have to keep in mind though that the Iraqi government made the decision to kill Saddam (like someone else already said). Iraq is a country quite different from ours (duh). Their beliefs, history, traditions, and culture are things that we can't always understand.
So you don't believe in the death penalty, well so what? That doesn't mean other people have to not like it too. Maybe in their culture or religion killing criminals is acceptable. Its ok to kill bad man, in fact your supposed to kill bad man. Who are we to say their cultural views are wrong?

Also, I hear the argument that America is the only civilized country that practices the death penalty. Well, we also have one of the most lenient systems too. Have you seen prisons? Three meals a day, television, gym, library, etc. Jeez. There's homeless familys who'd love that.

Yeah, other countries may not do the death penalty, but they can have really nasty punishments that can include whippings, beatings, dirty slimey prisons, etc.

Whether or not you believe in harsh punishments, many countries and cultures have done those kinds of things for thousands of years. It's pretty ethnocentric to expect them to stop because "it isn't right" or because we spit Gandhi quotes at them.


Yes, all views are ethnocentric in origin. We're not gonna get rid of that unless you remove oppossing cultures, and to me, that doesn't sound at all desirable. While I respect the point made by cultural relativists, it doesn't provide any solutions to problems, it just points things out.

I never said I don't believe in the death penalty. I just think that in this case, death did nothing except create controversy through media representation.

Who are we to say someone else's views are wrong? You yourself are saying everyone else's views here are wrong because we're not culturally neutral. That is a bias in itself, and the flaw of cultural relativism.

In truth, I don't give a damn what someone else's culture is. I am still entitled to my opinions and views. My view is that Saddam's death did nothing for anyone. And I shall keep this view.

Oh, and I am a Social Anthropologist myself. Just in case you want to know. I study under Adam Kuper and Eric Hirsch at Brunel University, England.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:05 pm


Blind Guardian the 2nd
[BlkCat]
Just wanted to add that even though the quality sucked...I saw the whole thing on youtube <3


Congratulations. You've now turned real death into a form of entertainment.


Quite, it's something that interests me greatly. "Come Sweet Death" <3

[BlkCat]


Moonlight_Blade

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 11:12 pm


2008 will most likely be the turning year for USA, Hopefully we won't be under Martial Law, but I do remember that scary night listening to the TV or radio, I forget which, and hearing "Bush will be going for his 3rd election"

Yes, i know that's against the law, but it's not against the law to throw us under Martial Law is some disaster happens....

I may not post here again, if you want me to, PM me. I just saw this and decided to leave something that scares me.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:08 am


Blind Guardian the 2nd


Yes, all views are ethnocentric in origin. We're not gonna get rid of that unless you remove oppossing cultures, and to me, that doesn't sound at all desirable. While I respect the point made by cultural relativists, it doesn't provide any solutions to problems, it just points things out.

I never said I don't believe in the death penalty. I just think that in this case, death did nothing except create controversy through media representation.

Who are we to say someone else's views are wrong? You yourself are saying everyone else's views here are wrong because we're not culturally neutral. That is a bias in itself, and the flaw of cultural relativism.

In truth, I don't give a damn what someone else's culture is. I am still entitled to my opinions and views. My view is that Saddam's death did nothing for anyone. And I shall keep this view.

Oh, and I am a Social Anthropologist myself. Just in case you want to know. I study under Adam Kuper and Eric Hirsch at Brunel University, England.


I actually never accused you of not favoring the death penalty. I was merely bringing up the death penalty to illustrate a point.
I agree that the media representation of Saddam's death was a bit much. Then again, I'm not much of a fan of the media so all that did was just add to my disgust.
I brought up the idea of cultural relativity to illustrate not a solution, but a point that hadn't been broughten up yet. Sometimes people get so heavy into these discussions that perhaps a different view point may make them look at their views in a different way. That's one of the purposes for these threads.
Now as for me being biased, as anthropologist yourself you should know one of the first rules/lessons: No one is unbiased. We are all colored by our worldview and our culture. I never said I was unbiased, you assumed that in your post.
I never said everyone else's views were wrong either (or that they weren't entitled to have them), that is another assumption you've made. Whether or not I agree with the different views being discussed, I simply pointed out that our views are colored by worldviews and experiences. I questioned how much we could judge things like the death penalty and crime since we only see it through one pair of lenses.
I also found it interesting that you "don't give a damn what someone else's culture is" yet state that you are a social anthropologist. That's kind of like being a teacher and not caring about education. Very interesting indeed.

iolitefire


Woglinde

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:52 am


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