Naomi for starters you in a thread telling christians, not any other religion, that the bible dosn't allow wicca. With that you continue to call some christians hypocrites and thus provoking some. You may not have intended that but since we are all human if you provoke us into acting out of our religion, you should not turn around and call haters. Now for a rebuttal.
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You guys do realize that the true meaning of those words was lost intranslation when converted to english from hebrew . . . I hope you guys know that words such as "divination", "magician", "medium", "spiritist", "Necromancy", "Sorcery", "Astrologer", "witchcraft",
have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MEANINGS in the original version of the bible; as Hebrew words have different meanings than English But of course YOU wouldn't know that unless you knew how to speak hebrew, or at least ATTEMPTED learn the teachings of the actual bible. When it was translated into english alot was changed, cut, and left out. The bible is a book for teaching morals and faith, not for inflicting hate upon other religions. Take a chill pill.
have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MEANINGS in the original version of the bible; as Hebrew words have different meanings than English But of course YOU wouldn't know that unless you knew how to speak hebrew, or at least ATTEMPTED learn the teachings of the actual bible. When it was translated into english alot was changed, cut, and left out. The bible is a book for teaching morals and faith, not for inflicting hate upon other religions. Take a chill pill.
Ok, now can we see proof and not just statments? I want to see what the differance of these meanings are. I want to hear the terms used to describe what is right and wrong. And if your going to say that then I assume you know it. So please explain to me.
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I don't understand why christians (not all, just some) are so hypocrytical, especially when it comes to something that they don't even know about?
He said simply that the bible speaks that it's against witchcraft and divination. Instead of explaing the diffrence of the words you mention n this post, or to tell him what those differences are, you told him that he was a hypocrite and didn't know what he was talking about. This is called provoking.
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So basically "Your" religion says you can't do it, but my religion is fine with it. So . . . why the big problem? My religion does make me conform to the rules and restrictions of your religion, we have our own . . . duh
Again he's saying his religion. The Christian religion. It's directed to christians who beleive magic is ok as long as it's used for good, and Wicca is simply an example. To use the rolling eye and 'duh' are simply enough to provoke some people who have little impatients that they can't help.
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You assume too much. Do you need a hug?
Whether your being serious about that hug or not, think about how he would take that statment.
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lol I'm not even going to touch everything encorporated with the Dead Sea Scrolls, you wanna argue with someone over that. You go PM TeaDidiKai, she knows more about that than probably anyone here on gaia. As for me ::shrugs:: not my thing, don't care. That has nothing to do with MY religion.
So you come on and tell us that they messed up in the translation, do not prove that statement, and then when he came back with this you wanna back off because it has nothing to do with your religion. What happened to the whole "I read on alot of religion" rants you've been stating? Who's being a hypocrite now? (I know I'm provoking, but like I said I don't represent the christians in my statments.)
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XP The bible was written by Man, plain and simple, and the fact that they have left OUT books of the bible, leaves me even more to critisize it.
Please tell me what bibles beside Enoch (Which I learned from Lithanus that it dosn't have nothing to do with becoming a christian) what has been left out? You already failed to counter his deep see scroll comeback so until you explain these things that were left out, you should keep that statment to yourself from now on. Also give me a piece of literature that was written by a god. I guess we can't expect God to put his trust in these people so now he has to write the bible himself?
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That's great, for you. That may be how YOUR god defines YOUR religion. But in MY religion, they are NOT false, their only false to you because your religion says so and that's fine, that's what you follow. But to presume that YOUR religion has presidence over what I believe, well . . . that's just ignorant
Again this is directed to those who want to follow the Christian Faith. Not your faith. And to use the word ignorant goes back to my statments about provoking.
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Oh please do!! I've been waiting this whole time to come to some momentus conclusion . . . but you really so far, haven't made a valad point yet?
Neither have you that is related to this topic. If this is a debate that Wicca is wrong, then you will have a case, but he is debating that it is wrong for Christians.
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((sorry, just thought it was funny to contradict yourself. . . moving on))
Stop saying that he's a hater if you can't stop provoking.
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Every religion, is based on "a relationship" with "God" or the higher being they worship. A connection with the spiritual divine, that's the base roots of any religion.
Actually alot of religions are about worshipping a god for blessings, not having a relatioship.
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You do a good enough job of that yourself
This would get you punched. Maybe not by a guy, but your simply provoking him further.
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Yeah and?
"The nations you will dispossess" = "The Cultures that you will banish/put out/shun."
"Listen to those who practice sorcery and divination." = Once again, the translations of "sorcery" and "divination" are different in Hebrew, than they are in English.
"The lord your GOd has not permitted you to do so" = That's great, The LORD YOUR GOD has not permitted you to do so, that's assuming that YOUR religion FOLLOWS the BIBLE. ::smacks self on forehead:: you dont' get it do you? Not everyone follows christiantity? Only YOUR religion puts restrictions on what you can and cannot do, in my religion, it is perfeclty acceptable, the Bible is not our law, Nature and Peace are our laws
"The nations you will dispossess" = "The Cultures that you will banish/put out/shun."
"Listen to those who practice sorcery and divination." = Once again, the translations of "sorcery" and "divination" are different in Hebrew, than they are in English.
"The lord your GOd has not permitted you to do so" = That's great, The LORD YOUR GOD has not permitted you to do so, that's assuming that YOUR religion FOLLOWS the BIBLE. ::smacks self on forehead:: you dont' get it do you? Not everyone follows christiantity? Only YOUR religion puts restrictions on what you can and cannot do, in my religion, it is perfeclty acceptable, the Bible is not our law, Nature and Peace are our laws
Yes the culture whom they don't want anything to do with. Why follow another religion that contradicts your own? Again you failed to debate his counter so keep the mistakes of translaitions to yourslf. And yes not everyone, that's why this is directed to CHRISTIANS Do you get that? I have no objections to your law. Not by a long shot. It keeps you from coming to my house and shooting me for my statments, but stop feeling like you need to tell us that we can't preach to other christains. (Don't forget this is a christian forum)
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Why does ther have to be any hatred or persecution at all? Why do most christians see this as a big battle? Invoke love and peace, Banish hate. ::shakes head:: If you could step outside yourself, and listen to your words for a moment, But you are too stuck in thick-headed ways
Tell me how you're being any diffrent. Most of your post seem to only piss him off, not prove a point that your religion is ok if your a Non-Christian. While he's debating that if you are, then it is wrong.
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It's not about what's right and wrong, and I'm NOT saying your religion is wrong. It may be perfectly right . . . FOR YOU. That is all I am saying. Your religion, your spiritual path, is for you. Not for everyone. Everyone is different, everyone has different tastes, everyone has different likes and dislikes, just as everyone has different spiritual beliefs and different connections with god/the divine
Yes and this is about one Christian telling other christians, what is not excepted in Christianity.
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I do not wish to bash religion over religion
I'm starting to question this statment.
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I just wish you would see that just because my family follows a different (and more peaceful I might add) set of spiritual guidelines, does not make us evil.
Who the called you evil again?
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Why do you see fit to hate us, even though we preach love, equality, and peace. From what I've seen you even hate buddhists, and their the most peaceful religion on the planet
Stop watching Peter's dad from Family Guy. But seriously, you keep saying some, but your making Christians sound hateful while some may just simply be confused on how to show their faith.
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If a book can drive someone to hate another for no reason at all, than I would say that is more the work of Man and Satan, than it is of God. If your God is one that inforces Hatred on no real grounds, than I do not want to be part of it.
And yet that's not what the Bible was ment to do.
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I follow my heart and I do what is decent and right, being a kind caring human being is god law, just because you "got saved" you think that gives you the right to be a general d**k whenever you please? Try being kinder to they fellow man, and not so pig headed, your the kind of personality that starts wars for no good reason.
Wow, after reading your whole post, and then reading this I realized one this... You are a bigger hypocrite than any he has been on this form. You've been a smart a** this whole time and yet you call him a d**k? You say he started a war for no good reason and yet you come here and spout all those things? When he was directing this to christians. If I didn't work so hard on this rebuttal I would swipe it all away and just tell you that you need to grow up and get your fact straightened. Learn what it means to be peacful before you preach it. If you were to act kind to him during this whole debate I would have seen you as a superior to him, but you failed to do that, you failed to give any proof of your statments, and you failed to show what your religion, if it is as you say, was really about. By that i mean aditude, not words. And yours was just as bad as any cocking and 'holier than thou' 'christiian' (Notice the '') I have ever met.
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Which ever, also remember that christianity/catholicism have their own "forms" of witchcraft. What do you think prayer is? That's all basic witchcraft really is, most spells are a plee to the divine/god for help with a matter. -_-;
Please tell me you pulled this from a good source and not out of your own head? Please of god please tell me.
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And for those of you wondering why a Pagan would even bother to come speak amongst christians of your calliber . . . Here is your answer.
I come because I have a fairly simple, yet intriquite question. What is the need for all this senseless hate? Why, if I am happy in my religion, and at peace with myself and nature (as is the case with the rest of my fellow pagans) Then why are there so many christians dead set against me following my own belief structure?? That's all I want to know.
I'm not trying to convert anyone. Heavens No! Everyone is free to make their own choices and follow their own heart. I just want to know, why is it only acceptible to follow christianity? America is made up of many different cultures, we are not all english. I am Native America and Bohemian/Slavic. . . I don't understand why upon moving here I am forced to give up my belief structure in my own gods. I believe in a god just as you do, but my portrayal of him and the image of which I have in my heart are just different than yours.
And the more I've read of everyones articles here the more I'm finding that this is less and less about Christianity vs. Everyone as it is Conservative vs Liberal. What's wrong with having my own beliefs and wanting to celebrate out in the open as you are aloud to do?
again as my parting quote
"Why am I supposed to burn in your religions 'hell', if my religion doesn't have one?"
and
"Just because your religion says You can't do something, doesn't mean I am must abstain. When my religion encourages it!"
I do not want to argue for the sake of arguing, I just want to know why is there such need for all of this smuggness and sensless hate that solves nothing.
"Warriors for Christ, stand or fight?!?!" Well what the hell are you fighting for, why does there need to be war . . . what's wrong with harmony and peace among people . . . and Americans wonder why the rest of the world takes a harsh disliking to them.
I would just like a non-violent, calm, un-accusative answer. . . one that, hopefully, will enlighten me upon somethign that so far, no one has been able to fullfill. I just don't understand it . . .
I come because I have a fairly simple, yet intriquite question. What is the need for all this senseless hate? Why, if I am happy in my religion, and at peace with myself and nature (as is the case with the rest of my fellow pagans) Then why are there so many christians dead set against me following my own belief structure?? That's all I want to know.
I'm not trying to convert anyone. Heavens No! Everyone is free to make their own choices and follow their own heart. I just want to know, why is it only acceptible to follow christianity? America is made up of many different cultures, we are not all english. I am Native America and Bohemian/Slavic. . . I don't understand why upon moving here I am forced to give up my belief structure in my own gods. I believe in a god just as you do, but my portrayal of him and the image of which I have in my heart are just different than yours.
And the more I've read of everyones articles here the more I'm finding that this is less and less about Christianity vs. Everyone as it is Conservative vs Liberal. What's wrong with having my own beliefs and wanting to celebrate out in the open as you are aloud to do?
again as my parting quote
"Why am I supposed to burn in your religions 'hell', if my religion doesn't have one?"
and
"Just because your religion says You can't do something, doesn't mean I am must abstain. When my religion encourages it!"
I do not want to argue for the sake of arguing, I just want to know why is there such need for all of this smuggness and sensless hate that solves nothing.
"Warriors for Christ, stand or fight?!?!" Well what the hell are you fighting for, why does there need to be war . . . what's wrong with harmony and peace among people . . . and Americans wonder why the rest of the world takes a harsh disliking to them.
I would just like a non-violent, calm, un-accusative answer. . . one that, hopefully, will enlighten me upon somethign that so far, no one has been able to fullfill. I just don't understand it . . .
Hell I agree with some of this people shouldn't have to fight, but it happens. Peace will never be attained. If you want to know what christians fight for then read the bible thouroughly. It can pretty much explain everything for you. But this peace that you seem so hooked on dosn't seem to be your nature, from what i've seen atleast. Your nature is a girl with a smart mouth that feels the need to provoke others and then accuse them of hating when they respond to your provoking. Just as humans do.
Ending, this post has been my opinion of what you've stated. It's not my idea's as a christian, but as a debater. I find that your additude contradicted your preaching. You failed to prove most of your christian related arguments, and you went on to outright insult christians by calling us dicks. Not to mention one argument of yours he was able to disprove and you not only failed to counter, but went speaking about the disproved subject.
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So if anyone can ACTUALLY answer my questions with logic and reason other than, "Because it says so in the bible", then maybe I'll listen and open up a little to regaining my catholic roots. I'm not saying for you to try to convert me, but I'd like to here a good rousing argument to attempt to pursuade me towards christianity, I really do.
Lastly your in a thread that was directed to christains, gave quotes from the bible. I don't think you should go against what your heart says. If it says that a Pagan life is better for you than a Christian life, then by all means have at you. I wish you a good life, but next time you go into a thread directed to Christians, try to represent your own religion better than what you've been showing on these post.
