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 Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:37 am
Quote: Okay. Enough of this stupid 'It's natural so it's good' arguement. Saying that Homosexuality is of God just because it's in the genes is pretty much tantamount to saying that alchoholism, or quite a few instances of drug addiction, or mental defects such as sociopathy or psychopathy are 'of God' because they're in the genes. Scientists don't even know if it's genetic. Homosexuality that is. But nearly all scientists agree you can't change it. I wasn't saying it's natural so it's good. I was just saying either it's love and it's good, or it's not love and it's not good. Quote: The fact that you were born into an unchangeable situation has no relavence whatsoever on this discussion. If we always accepted the things that we couldn't change and 'godly' then, by that logic, then horribly evil things (9/11, Katrina, the Sudanese Genocide) are 'of God'. I wasn't saying that all things we can't change are from God. But Satan just can't force you to do anything. Satan didn't force anyone to attack the world trade center. I don't think Satan was even involved in Katrina. I think it was just warm air and cold air colliding creating a storm and picking up speed over the warm ocean and finally hitting Louisianna and the rest was a result of government incompetency. Genocide is not from God either, but Satan just can't make you do anything. Quote: Want to prove homosexuality is ok? Use another arguement. A genetic predisposition to alcoholism isn't caused by Satan. It's caused by your genetics. Satan can only tempt you to drink once the predisposition is already there. Satan can only tempt. Since Satan cannot tempt you to become attracted to someone, the attractions cannot be from Satan. Satan could tempt you to have sex with someone once the attractions are already there. I was just saying that either it's love and it's from God, or it's not love and it's not from God. I'm positive it's love, but you may be positive of something else.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:40 am
Fushigi na Butterfly If everyone is so accepting of it and lets the person go on in their sinful lifestyle, and it truly is a sin, then yes, that would get them to go to Hell, and they didn't even have the chance to change, cuz Satan is going around, planting his little seeds, his little lies and saying, "This is okay. Love is love, right?" He puts his twist on it, making it seem good, making it seem like it's from God, like a blessing, when it's wrong, not of God, and a one-way ticket down.
That's just my thinking on it. 1 John 4:7-8 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. And your own posts from 1 Corinthians. You can love your family, your friends, and your pastor, in different ways, yes, but regardless of gender. Why should your life mate be any different?
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:48 am
Captain_Theoretical Scientists don't even know if it's genetic. Homosexuality that is. But nearly all scientists agree you can't change it. most of them agree that it is somehow connect to your genes. Whether it's passed down genetically or not. Quote: I wasn't saying it's natural so it's good. I was just saying either it's love and it's good, or it's not love and it's not good. Love is always good. It's the homosexual lust/sex that is wrong. Quote: I wasn't saying that all things we can't change are from God. But Satan just can't force you to do anything. Satan didn't force anyone to attack the world trade center. I don't think Satan was even involved in Katrina. I think it was just warm air and cold air colliding creating a storm and picking up speed over the warm ocean and finally hitting Louisianna and the rest was a result of government incompetency. Genocide is not from God either, but Satan just can't make you do anything. I never said that homosexuality was from The Satan. If anything, I think that I was saying that the logic would mean that God caused those things. Quote: A genetic predisposition to alcoholism isn't caused by Satan. Neither is homosexuality. Doesn't change a thing. Quote: It's caused by your genetics. Satan can only tempt you to drink once the predisposition is already there. Same thing goes for homosexuality. Quote: Satan can only tempt. Since Satan cannot tempt you to become attracted to someone, the attractions cannot be from Satan. Satan could tempt you to have sex with someone once the attractions are already there. Did I say that homosexuality is from The Satan? No. Quote: I'm positive it's love, but you may be positive of something else. I'm also positive that it's love. But, hey, it's not the love that's wrong. Stop talking about The Satan to me. They brought him up, talk about him to them.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:59 am
Quote: Love is always good. It's the homosexual lust/sex that is wrong. Now I'm confused. It's the same amount of lust there would be a in a heterosexual relationship. If homosexual love is not wrong, how can the act of making love be wrong? Quote: I never said that homosexuality was from The Satan. If anything, I think that I was saying that the logic would mean that God caused those things. Well I was not saying that things you cannot change are nessecarily from God. Quote: Did I say that homosexuality is from The Satan? No. I was separately refuting people who have said that. Sorry I'm unclear. Quote: I'm also positive that it's love. But, hey, it's not the love that's wrong. Stop talking about The Satan to me. They brought him up, talk about him to them. It's not love that's wrong, it's making love that's wrong? I don't see how that works. Shouldn't it be all or nothing? It's not wrong to fall in love with someone of the same gender, but it's wrong to express love to someone of the same gender? Anyway if we're going to talk about sin, Satan is going to be brought up.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:10 pm
Captain_Theoretical confused Now I'm confused. It's the same amount of lust there would be a in a heterosexual relationship. If homosexual love is not wrong, how can the act of making love be wrong? Lust is sexual desire outside of marriage. Quote: Well I was not saying that things you cannot change are nessecarily from God. uh... I think there was a misunderstanding here. Quote: I was separately refuting people who have said that. Sorry I'm unclear. Ah, ok then. Quote: It's not love that's wrong, it's making love that's wrong? Well, the lust behind the act of making love. Quote: I don't see how that works. Shouldn't it be all or nothing? See above. Quote: It's not wrong to fall in love with someone of the same gender, but it's wrong to express love to someone of the same gender? There are many ways of expressing love that do not involve sexual desire. Quote: Anyway if we're going to talk about sin, Satan is going to be brought up. That brings up the assumption that The Satan is the driving force behind sin, which would be a false assumption.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:30 pm
Do u know wat it's like to almost be free from homosexuality and see how many ppl support it? I do, and ppl supporting homosexuality just make it harder for me to reach the finish line, to reach freedom. That may be blunt but some of u need a slap of reality.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:49 pm
Imotoku thelovelyLIZ If you vote for something based on religious backing that would take oaway people of other religion rights, how is that not forcing you're religion on others. I don't understand. confused I know people who are gay who hard a perfectly normal upbringing. That's a generalization which is, you know, bad. It's like saying all Christians shove religion down your throats. And I agree with Captain on the devil bit. I acknowledge sin and temptation but I think a lot of people put too much focus on the devil... Most of what we "know" about the devil isn't even from the Bible, but what a bunch of priests in the dark ages made up to try and scare people back to faith. The same way they made up Jesus artifacts. I'm not totally denying his exhistance, but the "devil made me do it" argument really makes me sad. It seems like it's just people who don't want to take the blame for their sin. Suck it up, take them blame, repent, you know? And yeah, on a similar note to what Captain said, they did a psychological test where they gave a bunch of college students beer and they all partied it up and got drunk and tipsy... and then the experimenters told them there wasn't any alchohol in the beer. They think they're drunk, so they act that way. ANYWAY (sorry, I'm rambling again) I really don't think homosexuality is like drug addiction. Drug addiction is purely physical. Drug addiction is not at all just physical. It is just as much mental as physical. That devil made me do it is totally incorrect and a bad reason to give for commiting a crime, wait I need to get back on topic. Okay, I'll give you that XD This is why I shouldn't write fast replies. But drug addiction is a lot more physical than homosexuality. I mean, you don't go "OH MY GOSH! I can't be homosexual anymore! I'm gonna vommit!" You know, you don't have the same physical effects. That's what makes it so hard for some drug addicts, even if there is an amount mental addiction as well. So we're agreed the devil made me do it is a bad excuse. This is off topic, sorry. On topic now, my friend has a friend who's daighter made this comment. I liked this because it wasn't one of those stupid chain mail stories, this was just something my friend happened to tell me via myspace bullitan Quote: my friend Holly sent me this about her 5 year old daughter. "We have a couple that are like grandparents to the kids . They just happen to be 60 y/o gay men . After a phone call from them, Abby was very confused . She asked if they were cousins and I explained that no they were married . She looked at me like I had 8 heads . I explained that sometimes girls marry girls, boys marry boys, but mostly girls and boys marry each other . As I was going to go deeper into the subject with her she told me hold on, I got it . God told Uncle Daves heart to love Uncle Barry . Just like he told your heart to love Daddys . I was amazed ." <33333333 i wish they didnt move to NJ sad So yeah, I kinda liked that.
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:33 pm
Quote: Lust is sexual desire outside of marriage. I don't agree with you. Lust is when you put sexual desire above God. Everyone has sexual desire (besides asexuals) once they've hit puberty. I'm not married, clearly. All love is from God, so if God made a man love another man why would he not want them to get married? Quote: There are many ways of expressing love that do not involve sexual desire. Like I said before, it's not the same. I could hug a girl, in fact I have numerous times, but that woudn't mean anything except that I probably knew her. I've known people who just hug other people as a way of greeting, even when they've just met someone. Sex is special, it's a gift. You might hug a stranger, but you wouldn't have sex with any old random person off the street. (Forget prostitutes in all of this, since that is obviously separate from what God intended for sex). Why would he make it a gift exclusively for heterosexuals when God loves all of us equally?
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:08 pm
Captain_Theoretical I don't agree with you. Lust is when you put sexual desire above God. Everyone has sexual desire (besides asexuals) once they've hit puberty. I'm not married, clearly. Actually, I'd say that you just summed it up better than I. It doesn't really change my arguement though. Quote: All love is from God, so if God made a man love another man why would he not want them to get married? Why do you think God 'made' people be gay? On that matter, whatever happened to free will. Quote: Why would he make it a gift exclusively for heterosexuals when God loves all of us equally? God didn't make gays. Well, I suppose that, technically, He did, considering how He made all things, but He didn't make them gay.
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:40 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Captain_Theoretical I don't agree with you. Lust is when you put sexual desire above God. Everyone has sexual desire (besides asexuals) once they've hit puberty. I'm not married, clearly. Actually, I'd say that you just summed it up better than I. It doesn't really change my arguement though. Quote: All love is from God, so if God made a man love another man why would he not want them to get married? Why do you think God 'made' people be gay? On that matter, whatever happened to free will. Quote: Why would he make it a gift exclusively for heterosexuals when God loves all of us equally? God didn't make gays. Well, I suppose that, technically, He did, considering how He made all things, but He didn't make them gay. I totally agree w/ u on that
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:33 pm
thejesusfreak Cometh The Inquisitor Captain_Theoretical I don't agree with you. Lust is when you put sexual desire above God. Everyone has sexual desire (besides asexuals) once they've hit puberty. I'm not married, clearly. Actually, I'd say that you just summed it up better than I. It doesn't really change my arguement though. Quote: All love is from God, so if God made a man love another man why would he not want them to get married? Why do you think God 'made' people be gay? On that matter, whatever happened to free will. Quote: Why would he make it a gift exclusively for heterosexuals when God loves all of us equally? God didn't make gays. Well, I suppose that, technically, He did, considering how He made all things, but He didn't make them gay. I totally agree w/ u on that Why do people think they are born like that anyways? That seems to be a big argument, but why do they say they are born that way?
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:29 pm
Imotoku Why do people think they are born like that anyways? That seems to be a big argument, but why do they say they are born that way? a start.
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:17 pm
Quote: Actually, I'd say that you just summed it up better than I. It doesn't really change my arguement though. Gay people aren't putting sexual desire above God any more than straight people. Quote: Why do you think God 'made' people be gay? On that matter, whatever happened to free will. I'm sure that if gay people had the free will to wake up and suddenly decide they don't want to be gay anymore and just poof they're straight, many would. That's not the point. The point is, excluding all science, all love comes from God, so therefore gay love must come from God as well. Quote: God didn't make gays. Well, I suppose that, technically, He did, considering how He made all things, but He didn't make them gay. He made people straight didn't he? Did homosexuality just will itself into existence? neutral
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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:50 pm
Captain_Theoretical Gay people aren't putting sexual desire above God any more than straight people. They are if God said that the only acceptable sexual relations are heterosexual ones. Quote: That's not the point. The point is, excluding all science, all love comes from God, so therefore gay love must come from God as well. Despite what the majority of teenagers would tell you, sex =/= love. Haven't I made that clear? Quote: He made people straight didn't he? Did homosexuality just will itself into existence? neutral . Don't believe it? Find me something better.
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:05 pm
Quote: They are if God said that the only acceptable sexual relations are heterosexual ones. Isn't that circular logic? Homosexual sex is a sin because it's lustful because it's a sin? Quote: Despite what the majority of teenagers would tell you, sex =/= love. Haven't I made that clear? You don't think gay people experience anything other than sexual attraction towards each other? confused Quote: This is how. Don't believe it? Find me something better. Doesn't that undermine your logic? If God put a flaw in the genome so that humans would die sooner and it created genetic diseases and homosexuality then homosexuality is from God.
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