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 Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:30 am
Starlock Cougar Draven Earthgod We are of lesser importance than the things which we need to live. Soy, corn, rice and livestock lord over us, though we kill them in droves. Technically, soy, corn, rice, etc., lord over us because we need them to live. If they were sentient... And what if they are? Last time I checked, there is no objective measure of 'sentience' nor can sentience be proven in a fellow human being. Assumed, yes. Proven? Eeeh...
Proof only becomes a problem when you take it to be completely beyond reform, which is never the case in science.
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:16 am
Invictus_88 ochimaru ... And I bet nearly every tool we make is to destroy something with. Ah, you have a point... yet I can also guarantee you that an immense amount of destruction went into making and/or using those products. And you're right Invictus, I am not logical... nor have I ever claimed to be. I am erratic, random, pathetic & humble. I think the main point I was trying to make in this thread, is that humanity needs to be more humble. Some of us act like we own the planet and everything else comes secondary to humanity. Some of us have no regard for life or the environment. Most of us don't even realize how severe of an impact we each have on the environment, with the energy we waste, the garbage we create and the life that we purposefully or ignorantly kill. Being a big fan of the animal and plant kingdom, I have fostered a strong hatred for my kind and our ways. And this includes me. As much as I'd like to become the environmentally friendly hippy that shits in the woods and lives off my own agriculture... I am too acclimated into the 21st Century American lifestyle. It would be interesting to gauge how much destruction I cause every day... between being on the computer all day at work and at home, driving my car, eating processed foods and who knows what else. In fact, that's a great experiment. I think I shall try to figure that out. Not sure how I go about calculating how much coal is used to power my pc all day, but there's surely a way...
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:44 am
ochimaru Invictus_88 ochimaru ... And I bet nearly every tool we make is to destroy something with. Ah, you have a point... yet I can also guarantee you that an immense amount of destruction went into making and/or using those products. And you're right Invictus, I am not logical... nor have I ever claimed to be. I am erratic, random, pathetic & humble. I think the main point I was trying to make in this thread, is that humanity needs to be more humble. Some of us act like we own the planet and everything else comes secondary to humanity. Some of us have no regard for life or the environment. Most of us don't even realize how severe of an impact we each have on the environment, with the energy we waste, the garbage we create and the life that we purposefully or ignorantly kill. Being a big fan of the animal and plant kingdom, I have fostered a strong hatred for my kind and our ways. And this includes me. As much as I'd like to become the environmentally friendly hippy that shits in the woods and lives off my own agriculture... I am too acclimated into the 21st Century American lifestyle. It would be interesting to gauge how much destruction I cause every day... between being on the computer all day at work and at home, driving my car, eating processed foods and who knows what else. In fact, that's a great experiment. I think I shall try to figure that out. Not sure how I go about calculating how much coal is used to power my pc all day, but there's surely a way...
But this is only reached by an assessment of the facts as they truly exist.
> If we are not careful, we will destroy ourselves.
> We are the only creatures intelligent enough to change the future for the better or for the worse.
This comes with a duty, therefore, to exert our intellect and technological power towards creating an enjoyable and sustainable world for ourselves in which human liberty and human progress can continue whilst safeguarding our necessary ecosystem - for without that all else fails.
A massive guilt trip won't achieve anything, and is as counterproductive as holding the view that we should destroy whatever we want. The egoistic human will use their power for bad, the unthinkingly anti-humanist human will say we're so flawed and hopeless that there's nothing we can do.
Both are horrific. We need to accept our clear and amazing abilities, and use them to coherently create a better and more sustainable future. This doesn't mean all going Vegan, that's just a fad. Veganism is in many ways itself unsustainable.
It means buying local produce wherever possible, cutting down on fuel consumption in all areas and working in support of developing countries so that they may experience economic growth without the ecological decimation so common to such industrial expansion.
Primarily: accept that we are supreme, whilst looking at our flaws, and use the former to correct the latter.
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