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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:39 am
I'm not really sure how I stand on religion and science. I just try to keep them separate. Science makes sense, and explains everything, and I like explanations. 3nodding Religion works with science but is also separate from it. I guess. confused I like the theory that the 7 days were really much longer. Billions of years each or something.
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:30 am
Schizophrenic Spork I'm not really sure how I stand on religion and science. I just try to keep them separate. Science makes sense, and explains everything, and I like explanations. 3nodding Religion works with science but is also separate from it. I guess. confused I like the theory that the 7 days were really much longer. Billions of years each or something. i dunno. for me, they mesh seamlessly and perfectly. and one can't really put a number on the days. they could have been a second each, or an eaon.
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:38 pm
I have been involved in this discussion many times before. Before I share my opinion on this manner, I introduce a quote from Albert Einstein:
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
I believe that the Torah had some sort of divine inspiration, but was written down my humans over a period of many years. The Torah was written in a poetic manner, with metaphors and sometimes exaggerations of the truth. This might have been done because humans can have trouble relating to a God that has no physical form. On several occasions, especially in Sepher Sh'mot, the "finger" or "hand" of God is mentioned when God unleashes God's power. (I have issues assigning a gender to God for the aforementioned reason.) Considering that the Torah is composed of poetry and exaggerations of fact in some places, one could say that the world was not created in seven twenty-four hour periods.
But it goes beyond that. Each of the seven 'days' can represent a distinct era in the history of our planet, though they do not each last a fixed period of time. The first 'day', for example, during which light was separated from darkness (the Big Bang, perhaps) lasted billions of years longer than any of the others. This brings us to the fifth 'day,' when fish and birds first appeared. Science has proven that life began in the sea (fish), and also that modern birds began to appear before modern mammals. However,the Torah also mentions a third item is said to have been created on the fifth day: The Taninim G'dolim. I have heard several interesting translations for this. Some people translate this as Leviathan, a mythical serpentine creature that lived in the sea; Leviathan has been mentioned in the folklore of other civilizations as well. However, another translation for this that I have come across is "giant lizards," dinosaurs in in other words. It is quite possible for people of ancient civilizations to have discovered fossils and not understand exactly what they were. For example, it is believed that the legend of the Griffon was created when ancient Greeks discovered the bones of Protoceratops. In conclusion, dinosaurs existed, and the Torah aknowledges their creation.
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Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:18 pm
It says in psalms - "One thousand years for man is all but a day for G-d". And that was minimilising it. It's possible that one day of G-d is equivlant to way more. It is also known that before G-d started the seven days of creation, there were many worlds that were constructed and destroyed, and construted over again.
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:25 am
nathan_ngl It says in psalms - " One thousand years for man is all but a day for G-d". And that was minimilising it. It's possible that one day of G-d is equivlant to way more. It is also known that before G-d started the seven days of creation, there were many worlds that were constructed and destroyed, and construted over again. i wish you would stop bringing up the obscure stuff... sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:28 am
Curiously Live Cat I have been involved in this discussion many times before. Before I share my opinion on this manner, I introduce a quote from Albert Einstein: "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." I believe that the Torah had some sort of divine inspiration, but was written down my humans over a period of many years. The Torah was written in a poetic manner, with metaphors and sometimes exaggerations of the truth. This might have been done because humans can have trouble relating to a God that has no physical form. On several occasions, especially in Sepher Sh'mot, the "finger" or "hand" of God is mentioned when God unleashes God's power. (I have issues assigning a gender to God for the aforementioned reason.) Considering that the Torah is composed of poetry and exaggerations of fact in some places, one could say that the world was not created in seven twenty-four hour periods. But it goes beyond that. Each of the seven 'days' can represent a distinct era in the history of our planet, though they do not each last a fixed period of time. The first 'day', for example, during which light was separated from darkness (the Big Bang, perhaps) lasted billions of years longer than any of the others. This brings us to the fifth 'day,' when fish and birds first appeared. Science has proven that life began in the sea (fish), and also that modern birds began to appear before modern mammals. However,the Torah also mentions a third item is said to have been created on the fifth day: The Taninim G'dolim. I have heard several interesting translations for this. Some people translate this as Leviathan, a mythical serpentine creature that lived in the sea; Leviathan has been mentioned in the folklore of other civilizations as well. However, another translation for this that I have come across is "giant lizards," dinosaurs in in other words. It is quite possible for people of ancient civilizations to have discovered fossils and not understand exactly what they were. For example, it is believed that the legend of the Griffon was created when ancient Greeks discovered the bones of Protoceratops. In conclusion, dinosaurs existed, and the Torah aknowledges their creation. i'm sorry, but i just lost a big chunk of whatever respect i had for you. no offense. stare
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:40 pm
ZonkotheSane i'm sorry, but i just lost a big chunk of whatever respect i had for you. no offense. stare Hey, some of that was pretty good... sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:00 pm
nathan_ngl ZonkotheSane i'm sorry, but i just lost a big chunk of whatever respect i had for you. no offense. stare Hey, some of that was pretty good... sweatdrop It sorta makes sense to me sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:44 am
ZonkotheSane Curiously Live Cat I have been involved in this discussion many times before. Before I share my opinion on this manner, I introduce a quote from Albert Einstein: "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." I believe that the Torah had some sort of divine inspiration, but was written down my humans over a period of many years. The Torah was written in a poetic manner, with metaphors and sometimes exaggerations of the truth. This might have been done because humans can have trouble relating to a God that has no physical form. On several occasions, especially in Sepher Sh'mot, the "finger" or "hand" of God is mentioned when God unleashes God's power. (I have issues assigning a gender to God for the aforementioned reason.) Considering that the Torah is composed of poetry and exaggerations of fact in some places, one could say that the world was not created in seven twenty-four hour periods. But it goes beyond that. Each of the seven 'days' can represent a distinct era in the history of our planet, though they do not each last a fixed period of time. The first 'day', for example, during which light was separated from darkness (the Big Bang, perhaps) lasted billions of years longer than any of the others. This brings us to the fifth 'day,' when fish and birds first appeared. Science has proven that life began in the sea (fish), and also that modern birds began to appear before modern mammals. However,the Torah also mentions a third item is said to have been created on the fifth day: The Taninim G'dolim. I have heard several interesting translations for this. Some people translate this as Leviathan, a mythical serpentine creature that lived in the sea; Leviathan has been mentioned in the folklore of other civilizations as well. However, another translation for this that I have come across is "giant lizards," dinosaurs in in other words. It is quite possible for people of ancient civilizations to have discovered fossils and not understand exactly what they were. For example, it is believed that the legend of the Griffon was created when ancient Greeks discovered the bones of Protoceratops. In conclusion, dinosaurs existed, and the Torah aknowledges their creation. i'm sorry, but i just lost a big chunk of whatever respect i had for you. no offense. stare sorry about that. knee-jerk reaction sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:46 am
Suicidal Marshmallow nathan_ngl ZonkotheSane i'm sorry, but i just lost a big chunk of whatever respect i had for you. no offense. stare Hey, some of that was pretty good... sweatdrop It sorta makes sense to me sweatdrop that's the point, isn't it. stare
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:53 pm
ZonkotheSane Suicidal Marshmallow nathan_ngl ZonkotheSane i'm sorry, but i just lost a big chunk of whatever respect i had for you. no offense. stare Hey, some of that was pretty good... sweatdrop It sorta makes sense to me sweatdrop that's the point, isn't it. stare You could go into a more detailed explanation... Some of it made sense, while some of it I can understand why it troubled you. Like my rabbi always says: "Kol hamosif goreah" and "Lo katuv? Lo nahon!".
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:26 pm
Well, I do admit some of what I said is speculation. There is no way to confirm that some of the of the things mentioned in that are completely accurate. For example, it is not known exactly what the Taninim G'dolim were. Dinosaurs just seem like the most reasonable translation of this phrase in my opinion. We have not found any proof whatsoever of the existance of the Leviathan, unless you believe that Loch Ness Monster stuff.
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Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:30 pm
I think it would be funny if the Leviathan was Nessie xd
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:43 am
Donovinhs Knight I think it would be funny if the Leviathan was Nessie xd I would think that's just plain stupid xd
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:44 am
Donovinhs Knight I think it would be funny if the Leviathan was Nessie xd nessie's got nothing on leviatan. hell, leviatan can't fit in loch ness.
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