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 Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:57 pm
I'll clarify what Tomer said alittle. The Rasag - Researching the belief:  The Rasag, or "Rabbi saadia Ha'gaon", was born in diltch (eygpt) in 882. He was a great rabbi, and was very well learned in the sciences of his time. He was also very good with scripture and the hebrew language. The Rasag lead the opinion that if someone wants to reach true belief, he should research it, but first he has to come to an understanding that everything in the torah is true, word for word. In other words, before you start questioning the religion, you first must accept with blind belief that it is all true. Afterwards, you may research it, find out the reasoning and meanings behind it, but you have to have a good strong base of blind belief, lest you come to the wrong conclusions, and turn against the truth. If you find something that doesn't match - the research was incorrect, because you don't contradict the Torah - EVER.  The Rihal - Reseach is not for everyone, blind is best:The Rihal, or "Rabbi Yehuda the Levi", was born in Toledo (In spain) in the year 1075. He was a great rabbi, and doctor. He was also a great singer. He is is known for his book: "the koozari". Rihal lead the opinion that pure blind belief is better, and it is wise never to question the torah, hence you might come to incorrect conculsions, because not all of us are able to research correctly. However, if one feels he cannot stand alone with blind belief because he is a curious person, and asks many questions, he should go research, but should be carefull with what he conculdes. It is important to realise that no matter what, the Torah comes first, everything is true, and if your research reveals it is incorrect, you should either stop, or find a way around it, because the torah is living truth, and it is impossible to find something that slights any of it.  Both of them agree however, that you must first accept the torah as true, word for word, everything happened - and it matters, ALOT. All the different streams in judaism start from there, how the research is done, and what base you stand on. If you don't start from a point of understanding that everything happened, you don't have the real grasp on judaism.
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Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:34 pm
Donovinhs Knight Are reconstructionists also those "jews" who dont circumcise?
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:00 am
thank you, nathan, for your nice comment 3nodding , but i guess that u don't have to explain what i said all the time sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:01 am
rock_action Donovinhs Knight Are reconstructionists also those "jews" who dont circumcise? Oh...ok... damn...these jews I keep hearing about must be a very tiny group cause so far I have heard anyone say their group name stressed And blowing out those candles is just plain rwood talk2hand
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:29 am
Donovinhs Knight pure...irritating...makes me wanna strangle all with a pearl neckla monofilament. always go with monofilament.
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:34 am
famusamu Reconstructionist Judaism appears to be a form of the 'New Age' religions. According to Wikipedia.com, Reconstructionist Judaism is a movement of Judaism with a very liberal set of beliefs: 1.) an individual's personal autonomy should generally override traditional Jewish law and custom, yet also take into account communal consensus, 2.) modern culture is accepted, 3.) traditional rabbinic modes of study, as well as modern scholarship and critical text study, are both valid ways to learn about religious texts, 4.) non-fundamentalist methods of teaching about Jewish principles of faith are acceptable, and no Jew needs to accept all, or any, principles of faith, 5.) rejection of belief that the Jews are the only chosen people. 6.) miracles and theism are generally not accepted. and this is judaism how....?
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:42 am
Thank you for the info Tomer and Nathan! 3nodding
I liked the pretty pictures and dividers, by the way mrgreen blaugh
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:42 am
nathan_ngl I'll clarify what Tomer said alittle. The Rasag - Researching the belief: The Rasag, or "Rabbi saadia Ha'gaon", was born in diltch (eygpt) in 882. He was a great rabbi, and was very well learned in the sciences of his time. He was also very good with scripture and the hebrew language. The Rasag lead the opinion that if someone wants to reach true belief, he should research it, but first he has to come to an understanding that everything in the torah is true, word for word. In other words, before you start questioning the religion, you first must accept with blind belief that it is all true. Afterwards, you may research it, find out the reasoning and meanings behind it, but you have to have a good strong base of blind belief, lest you come to the wrong conclusions, and turn against the truth. If you find something that doesn't match - the research was incorrect, because you don't contradict the Torah - EVER. The Rihal - Reseach is not for everyone, blind is best:The Rihal, or "Rabbi Yehuda the Levi", was born in Toledo (In spain) in the year 1075. He was a great rabbi, and doctor. He was also a great singer. He is is known for his book: "the koozari". Rihal lead the opinion that pure blind belief is better, and it is wise never to question the torah, hence you might come to incorrect conculsions, because not all of us are able to research correctly. However, if one feels he cannot stand alone with blind belief because he is a curious person, and asks many questions, he should go research, but should be carefull with what he conculdes. It is important to realise that no matter what, the Torah comes first, everything is true, and if your research reveals it is incorrect, you should either stop, or find a way around it, because the torah is living truth, and it is impossible to find something that slights any of it. Both of them agree however, that you must first accept the torah as true, word for word, everything happened - and it matters, ALOT. All the different streams in judaism start from there, how the research is done, and what base you stand on. If you don't start from a point of understanding that everything happened, you don't have the real grasp on judaism. fyi, this was all before rambam published the ani maamin, the 13 principles of faith. additionally, the works naftali mentioned were written before the works of rambam, rashi, the baalei tosefos, and other commentaries. without these commentaries, much of torah, both tanach and talmud, is extremely difficult to understand, and one would require a near perfect knowledge of all relevant materials in order to make sense of anything. faith was only preferable to research because research was so difficult that it would often confuse and mislead. however, since we have explanatory commentaries today (which themselves are not so easy to understand), the controversy of blind faith vs research is moot. but i'm no posek.
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:22 pm
ZonkotheSane famusamu Reconstructionist Judaism appears to be a form of the 'New Age' religions. According to Wikipedia.com, Reconstructionist Judaism is a movement of Judaism with a very liberal set of beliefs: 1.) an individual's personal autonomy should generally override traditional Jewish law and custom, yet also take into account communal consensus, 2.) modern culture is accepted, 3.) traditional rabbinic modes of study, as well as modern scholarship and critical text study, are both valid ways to learn about religious texts, 4.) non-fundamentalist methods of teaching about Jewish principles of faith are acceptable, and no Jew needs to accept all, or any, principles of faith, 5.) rejection of belief that the Jews are the only chosen people. 6.) miracles and theism are generally not accepted. and this is judaism how....? Ummm... they read Torah? And say things resembling traditional prayers, and sometimes even the prayers themselves? And the congregants are Jewish? Yeah.... *actually agrees with Zonko in skepticism about Reconstructionists*
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:23 pm
Donovinhs Knight I think that it could have happened if we have timing and numbers off both in the torah and in history with things or it could be, like a more secular opinion is, is that a large flood did happen in that region and that they took all the animals that they knew of *awaits a possible cold stare from someone*
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:24 pm
nathan_ngl I'll clarify what Tomer said alittle. The Rasag - Researching the belief: The Rasag, or "Rabbi saadia Ha'gaon", was born in diltch (eygpt) in 882. He was a great rabbi, and was very well learned in the sciences of his time. He was also very good with scripture and the hebrew language. The Rasag lead the opinion that if someone wants to reach true belief, he should research it, but first he has to come to an understanding that everything in the torah is true, word for word. In other words, before you start questioning the religion, you first must accept with blind belief that it is all true. Afterwards, you may research it, find out the reasoning and meanings behind it, but you have to have a good strong base of blind belief, lest you come to the wrong conclusions, and turn against the truth. If you find something that doesn't match - the research was incorrect, because you don't contradict the Torah - EVER. The Rihal - Reseach is not for everyone, blind is best:The Rihal, or "Rabbi Yehuda the Levi", was born in Toledo (In spain) in the year 1075. He was a great rabbi, and doctor. He was also a great singer. He is is known for his book: "the koozari". Rihal lead the opinion that pure blind belief is better, and it is wise never to question the torah, hence you might come to incorrect conculsions, because not all of us are able to research correctly. However, if one feels he cannot stand alone with blind belief because he is a curious person, and asks many questions, he should go research, but should be carefull with what he conculdes. It is important to realise that no matter what, the Torah comes first, everything is true, and if your research reveals it is incorrect, you should either stop, or find a way around it, because the torah is living truth, and it is impossible to find something that slights any of it. Both of them agree however, that you must first accept the torah as true, word for word, everything happened - and it matters, ALOT. All the different streams in judaism start from there, how the research is done, and what base you stand on. If you don't start from a point of understanding that everything happened, you don't have the real grasp on judaism.
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:34 pm
sh0rtandsw3et89 Donovinhs Knight I think that it could have happened if we have timing and numbers off both in the torah and in history with things or it could be, like a more secular opinion is, is that a large flood did happen in that region and that they took all the animals that they knew of *awaits a possible cold stare from someone* ...
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:01 pm
ZonkotheSane nathan_ngl I'll clarify what Tomer said alittle. The Rasag - Researching the belief: The Rasag, or "Rabbi saadia Ha'gaon", was born in diltch (eygpt) in 882. He was a great rabbi, and was very well learned in the sciences of his time. He was also very good with scripture and the hebrew language. The Rasag lead the opinion that if someone wants to reach true belief, he should research it, but first he has to come to an understanding that everything in the torah is true, word for word. In other words, before you start questioning the religion, you first must accept with blind belief that it is all true. Afterwards, you may research it, find out the reasoning and meanings behind it, but you have to have a good strong base of blind belief, lest you come to the wrong conclusions, and turn against the truth. If you find something that doesn't match - the research was incorrect, because you don't contradict the Torah - EVER. The Rihal - Reseach is not for everyone, blind is best:The Rihal, or "Rabbi Yehuda the Levi", was born in Toledo (In spain) in the year 1075. He was a great rabbi, and doctor. He was also a great singer. He is is known for his book: "the koozari". Rihal lead the opinion that pure blind belief is better, and it is wise never to question the torah, hence you might come to incorrect conculsions, because not all of us are able to research correctly. However, if one feels he cannot stand alone with blind belief because he is a curious person, and asks many questions, he should go research, but should be carefull with what he conculdes. It is important to realise that no matter what, the Torah comes first, everything is true, and if your research reveals it is incorrect, you should either stop, or find a way around it, because the torah is living truth, and it is impossible to find something that slights any of it. Both of them agree however, that you must first accept the torah as true, word for word, everything happened - and it matters, ALOT. All the different streams in judaism start from there, how the research is done, and what base you stand on. If you don't start from a point of understanding that everything happened, you don't have the real grasp on judaism. fyi, this was all before rambam published the ani maamin, the 13 principles of faith. additionally, the works naftali mentioned were written before the works of rambam, rashi, the baalei tosefos, and other commentaries. without these commentaries, much of torah, both tanach and talmud, is extremely difficult to understand, and one would require a near perfect knowledge of all relevant materials in order to make sense of anything. faith was only preferable to research because research was so difficult that it would often confuse and mislead. however, since we have explanatory commentaries today (which themselves are not so easy to understand), the controversy of blind faith vs research is moot. but i'm no posek. and i'm glad you don't...
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:20 pm
tsshark and i'm glad you don't... gee, thanks rolleyes
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:30 pm
ZonkotheSane tsshark and i'm glad you don't... gee, thanks rolleyes you welcome... smile
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