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Hmmmm...what kind of scars would a Bhood wolf get, that any other wolf out there couldn't also somehow end up with? Also scars CAN fade over time, so that might be an issue? *hoorahs that her old burn scars are almost invisible now*

I think one of the big draws to the pack WAS the cloaks first, then the plot/concept. what would have the same superficial visual draw to newcomers unfamiliar with the concept as the cloaks did?

I can see the merits of either, but I think I'm going to have to say that I still prefer the skulls (or bones in general). To me, at least, they just speak more to the clan. The significance of being willing and able to kill another wolf for the clan feels stronger (in my opinion) than being willing to accept permanent scars. Though of course, such scars would make it impossible NOT to be recognized as a clan wolf no matter where they went, thus further isolating them and helping to keep them from potentially defecting. But I'll get back to that. The act of killing for one's bones would wean out any weak members of the pack - and really, what use do they have for weaklings - as well as leave a pretty serious mental/emotional scar...not that anyone who grows up with the clan can be considered the least bit normal.

Back to the distinctiveness of the scars. The very fact that the scars are so distinctive whereas a skull or bones could be set aside temporarily could be a bit of a problem. If the outside world starts recognizing those scars, it could be dangerous for pup snatchers - particularly those like Rorret who like to form a relationship with the families before snatching the pups. People start recognizing the scars, they start getting wise to them, maybe start driving any snatchers they see away before they can get close, maybe do more. A dead pup snatcher is a useless one.

But whichever way we go - scars or bones - I still really want to see the clan symbol incorporated.

Everyone's making such wonderful points about everything ;3; I hadn't thought too much on the necessity of pupnappers needing to remain anonymous, like Nyx said, and Bombazine, I really like your idea of there being a choice between scar or skull, instead of smacking them together into one big mess. The pupnappers would definitely have to have an option that is easily removable, for all the reasons Nyx said, and for the more dangerous/possible deserters, a nice big scar to tie them to the pack for the rest of their lives. Rorret is an excellent example of why a scar would be a bad idea for someone in his profession. For those who feel less inclined to sticking with the pack... let's take my Soren as an example: the boy is a hollow shell of an animal, and would kill as many wolves as he was told to without batting an eye. Heck, he ate his mother and sister - a pack custom, which I personally think would take away from the anguish of having to kill another wolf. Just having a fancy set of jewelry would not be enough to keep him from wandering off if he thought he'd profit from leaving pack territory. A scar, however, would at least give him second thoughts. Not the pain of the scar, exactly, but knowing that it would cause problems for him would be enough to keep him from inspecting the grass on the other side of the fence.

I would prefer that both options are at least around the same size/complexity, so that choosing one or the other doesn't come down to superficial reasons (ex. the scar looks boring and plain but the bone jewelry looks super fancy and rad). And my opinion is that in order to get one of these edits, the player must RP with their wolf a certain number of times - just to make sure the owner is serious about remaining with the pack before giving them a perk that wolves in other packs do not get. I love the BHood, but I don't want them to get all the special privileges XD And I, too, want to see the pack symbol used in one way or another - perhaps have it carved into the bone?

Hey guys, sorry for the long absence -- life got kind of hectic for a while.

But, okay. I am loving all the feedback and especially loving that all of you are weighing in with such excellent points. I will need to discuss things with the artist folks to see what they're comfortable with as well, so nothing is set in stone, but here is what I think makes the most sense.

I conferred with Zarath (he's very opinionated) and the way we see it is thus:

-- Zarath is very much a fan of ceremony and ritual. I think there is definite value in having both rituals (a killing and a maiming/scarification), and Zarath believes that both should be endured by all members. In part to be thorough, but also to foster a real sense of cohesiveness and stamp out any sense of favoritism or jealousy ("Why did he get to do X when I had to do Y?"). He says that the pack should suffer all pain and joy together.

(Mildly irrelevant side note: Once upon a time, when I played basketball, I had a coach who was particularly hardcore -- an ex Marine drill sergeant, in fact. One of the things he did that left a lasting impression on all of us was that when one person did something wrong, all of us were punished for it. So if one person had to run laps, all of us ran laps. Zarath subscribes to exactly that type of philosophy)

-- From what I'm hearing, it seems to me that the appeal of the scarification is primarily IC/characterization-motivated, not so much aesthetic (although it certainly could be aesthetic). From a visual perspective, what I like about the skull/etc. idea is that it is cohesive -- you can OOCly look at any Shadowclan wolf and immediately recognize them as such, like you can now with the cloaks -- and it would look consistent on all wolves (not getting lost in complex markings or clashing with colors etc).

-- With that in mind, here is what I propose: What if we implemented bone jewelry of whatever type as the lineart edit you earn through RP, but the scar was located in a place that was not visible on the lines? Most specifically, on the underbelly. My reasoning is thus:

----> We would all know it was there, IC-ly, without worrying about it on the lines
----> When you were forced into submission/had to go belly-up to authority, it would be there for all to see (and thus intensify your shame)
----> It would be easily hidden to any outsider, so your identity could remain secret
----> It would have an extra layer of significance: You show submission to no one outside the pack. (as a motto, of sorts - about fealty, loyalty, etc.)
-----> You get one symbol that you can remove for stealth purposes, and one that stays close to you at all times.
-----> It's also a signifier of trust. You roll belly-up and become vulnerable; you could be eviscerated just as easily. But you trust your brother with your life implicitly. Thus the ritual is as much about being scarred in a permanent way as it is about showing your unwavering devotion/trust.
----> Finally, belly fur is thinner than it is elsewhere on the body, making such a scar more visible.

I was only semi-joking when I suggested (with enthusiastic support from Firdaws) that they undergo a ritualized castration. Zarath cannot deny the utility of such a maneuver. It would certainly prevent some treachery (after all, aside from Rotiart, didn't the original contest also put....Betzalel, was it?...in a precarious situation with a female as well?)

Tossing that out there. But regardless of whether the maiming is that, erm, intimate or not -- I do think the compromise outlined above will basically satisfy all of the opinions I've heard here.

Second order of business!

With the volcanic eruption and subsequent change in territories, I'm thinking (as I mentioned on the map thread) that it might make sense for the Shadowclan to become nomads rather than holding down a single territory. Here's my thought process:

-- It's harder to lose track of pack members if you're not always sending them out alone or in small groups for pack business. The less time they spend traveling far and wide, the less likely they are to vanish.

-- As cannibals, it makes sense that they'd roam to keep up with their prey.

-- It's hard to maintain a sense of secrecy and mystique if your territory can ever be found. If you're always on the move, it's that much easier to vanish into the night.

-- This way, they can equally terrorize packs all over the map, making it easier to facilitate pup-napping schemes and whatnot.

I just think they'd overall be a lot spookier and able to live up to their reputation if they had total mobility.

Final thought for the night
(because this post wasn't tl;dr enough already)

I'm thinking that they take utmost advantage of the chaos and disorder of all those packs breaking apart, moving, etc. Bomba and I already have plans for our other fledgling pack to be hit hard by them (and there's a contest we need to put together related to that btw, don't let me forget), but I think there's plenty of room to add some more. What better time to come together and remember what it's all about? So if you have some wolves you want to get terrorized in the chaos, we can put that together -- even if it's just plotted, not RPed, knowing that the pack got to spend some time bonding and even strengthening in the cataclysm is valuable to them I think.

That said, I have some writing to do as I've got in my head a pretty decent way to wrap things up from the old meta and bring things to a satisfactory enough close that we can start over without *too* much trouble. I just need to sit down and write it all out. I feel the gears in my head working now that I'm dusting off my muse, so I might even be able to get it done this week, if I'm not totally consumed by wedding planning before then.

And, phew. That was a really long post. If you made it this far, have a cookie!

*noms her cookie she grabbed earlier this morning and saved for a snack* emotion_omnomnom

The Brotherhood being nomadic makes perfect sense to me. Like I feel they always should have been, minus the previous mentions of dens for raising the pups, but yeah...feels like a natural change to me, so no complaints.

I like the thought put into the belly scarring, both IC and OOC for the artists. Solves a number of concerns that were raised earlier (artist edits, IC ability to conceal the scar from outsiders, etc...) I'm with Nyx, wondering if old members are going to have to repeat all these new rites as well.

Which brings up another concern of mine. I'm still trying to figure out where Fallyn fits in with this radical new shift in power. I tried to suggest a gradual change in atmosphere around him that's maybe been occurring for some time, allowing him to ease in and begin fitting in, at least as 'one of his brothers' more than before when he kept his distance. Course, I can't do that alone, as that deals with how the rest of his brothers would treat him as well. He'd be content at first to just sorta...slip into being 'one of the boys' like any other.

Course, after this young upstart takes over and maybe the secret about where he actually came from comes to light...who knows what point Fallyn might have reached by then? Maybe he has his own supporters. Maybe trouble...

Lol, I dunno, future drama is always fun to think about. rofl

I'm so excited to see so many people interested in the brotherhood! I can get more rp/plots with Itzal and other pack members. *wiggles excitedly*

I also want to say that the nomad idea would be great. The idea of them being able to spread the fear and rumors of the pack will be fun.

I believe that whatever they use to distinguish themselves from other wolves should have the marking found on the hoods.

Updates Redux

A couple other notes as new information has been gleaned since last night smile

After intense negotiations with Kaelyndra, wherein she patiently listened to me be absurdly fussy and then found a way to make things fit into this brave new shop world's rules (because Kae is a problem solver), the final edits have been determined:

All Brotherhood wolves will, as discussed, carry scars on their bellies, from their rites of initiation.

They will have the pack symbol emblazoned on their foreheads, in war paint.

And they will wear a necklace around their throats made from the vertebrae of the wolf they killed on their initiation quest.

These changes are final and non-negotiable.

However these changes do come with an extra bit of good news! Because it has occurred to me that all of this war-painting and necklace-stringing has got to be time-consuming. That's a job somebody's gonna have to have. So I'll be opening up an artist rank for the pack.

Speaking of ranks. With a new world and a new alpha, all ranks are going to be once more up for grabs. I'll open those up to applications at a later date.

o/ Glad to hear it.

I definitely would love to snag an RP with Elapse sometime. I've always wondered about he and Rorret's relationship. By default, I imagine Elapse is the closest to a parent he (or any of the brotherhood wolves) have ever had. In my head, I always figured Rorret admired him somewhat -- like, he realized how much power he actually has (being the first real contact with the young'uns) and that's what led Rorret to choose the omega lifestyle for himself. Very curious. hmm.