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The best I can say on that is that there are weapon bonuses in some systems were the size of the weapon dictates the bonus. Converting it into terms of our guild:
0- senbon
1- kunai
2- Tanto
3- Wakazashi
4- Katana/Longsword
5- Nodachi
6- No idea for this category in this guild
7- Cleaver sword
8- Kubriki Hocho

Anyways, same system should go, they give up an attack or two and get the option to use Str+weapon Bonus+Wis+2per 10 in ninjutsu INSTEAD of dodge bonus for the turn. That would be a fair technique I suppose.


I know we don't have a distance system, but most people go by an honor system around here and if there is dispute, let the mods handle it.

It should just be that the selected target for defense is protected from any attack that they are aware of. Meaning that sneak attacks are still valid when they are used so long as the defending party doesn't pass his awareness check.


Well the nice thing about the initiative order is that it starts over and over again. So in that scenario B would have to watch A get thrashed, but could prepare to prevent that from happening again on McBadGuy's turn.

And to relent means to allow a person to do something to your character. I.E. you don't have to roll to let somebody push your character out of harms way unless you are really adamant about taking the attack instead of them.



Ever heard of Jet Li? The guy is tiny as all hell and yet is one of the greatest martial arts masters on the planet. Size doesn't matter in a grapple if you grapple the person the right way. Watch MMA fights, they tend to always go for the same kind of holds, the ones that turn the body against itself. The human body is finicky in that it doesn't like to let some parts bend when others are bent. Thats the real world perspective on it. Even if the 300 lb gorilla has the size advantage, if you got him into the right hold he would have to put himself into a great amount of pain to even think about getting out. People in the kink community do the same thing with predicament bondage, you tie up a person in such a way that they can rotate between two positions, but in position 1 their right arm is in pain and in position 2 their left legs feels like its being torn off. This forces them to try and stay in the middle, but that exerts effort and strains the muscles which inevitably leads to the limb falling into position 1 or two and makes matters worse.

Long story short, argument is invalid.

In World of Darkness grappling goes like this.

Turn 1: I grapple you, but no damage is done. You have no defense and cannot do reflexive actions, if you take any actions you relent to my grapple and don't get a chance to break it that turn.
Turn 2: After retesting to see if the opponent could escape on their turn I still have them grappled. I can now take one of several options. I can disarm them, I can damaged them, I can wrestle them to the ground, I can start to tie them up.
Every turn after you repeat step 2.

In this guild it would translate to:
Turn 1: I grapple you. You lose your dex bonus to your DB, but no damage is done.
Turn 2: I can choose one of the following options.
Damage you with weapon skill or taijutsu
Disarm you
Wrestle you to the ground (Makes their wisdom mod no longer count towards DB either)
Tie you up, adding a +1 per 10 ranks in Sleight of Hand to the difficulty of the grapple. If repeated 5 ties the victim is tied up and considered paralyzed and helpless until they can pass an escape artist check with the DC being your sleight of hand check.

Downsides of grapple. The grappler forfeits his dex bonus to Dodge as well until he breaks the grapple off.

Also, fun fact:
Blocking exist

D20 plus weapon skill isn't weak. That makes Masa's block rating between 34-52. Maybe add in strength mod on top of that or something, but that is pretty good.

Hiru's block formula is just Attack Melee reshuffled. So if we go by that, it is weak.

Hmm, as well as using Str Mod? Because that is Level + 3 mods + Weapon Skill bonus + Dice Roll?... I think blocking should be Base Save as well, since it kinda makes blocking kinda under the same territory of Reflex and such, since which seem similar if you think about it. Blocking is for those who can't dodge... So it's a Base Save...

They already kinda have that in that in this systems. It's under defensive fighting. You sacrifice pretty much all your attack rolls and you add them (for each attack turn) to your db so it gradually gets lower. But you can only attack once.

-.- That isn't what saving throws are for though. In d20, saving throws are generally to prevent further damage. A fort save versus poison to neutralize it or a massive damage check to stay conscious after a heavy blow. A reflex check normally only lets you avoid half of the damage from AOE attacks and traps unless you have a feat as well, but is also used when you fall just short of a check to make sure that you don't fall into the pit of spikes. Will saves normally negate mind control spells and such.

A strength save has never existed in d20 because it doesn't need to.
Stats need to be balanced. If strength can serve as both a means to attack (with some of the best weapons) and a way to defend, people will be stomping around in their god mod boots and only be making Str-con based characters. As it stands now, one has to factor in the other stats to get around this. And yes, dex based weaponry exist, but it is generally weaker or has to rely on ammo.

I really think that if this is something that people want to be introduced that abilities need to be left out. Weapons Skill, Weapon Size, and Base Attack Bonus should be enough to use in order to make something that is what the people want.

Stats exist for a reason and they tend to balance eachother, so trying to make dex and wisdom no longer a factor for people that use block is making it so that they can neglect that stat. Then we will have 2 stats that go neglected, possibly three, and all of the character start to become clones.

Where the ******** that that equation come from?

Lets take an average roll of 10 + 30 Weapon skill + 10 level + 14 DB = 64 <
WHERE?