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 Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:32 am
X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony No, i'm not one for the prosperity gospel or the poverty gospel, It all comes back to the cross, Christ called us to pick up our cross and follow him. Does it say you have to give up everything you own, no, but it does talk about repenting of your sins and having god be number one in your life, nothing comes before him. It's a slightly radical statement Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ. it's a postmodern society kind of deal. How does it not deal with america? The world is evil, that's what it comes down to. Italy has it worse than us as far as postmodernism goes, but in places like china where they're persecuted it looks different. I love this country, and I'd gladly die for it, we fly our flag high at my house, and i wear a red white and blue biker shirt on occasion. This isn't about america, it's about Christ coming first, which is a rare thing to see in america, even in a church.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:38 am
X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony No, i'm not one for the prosperity gospel or the poverty gospel, It all comes back to the cross, Christ called us to pick up our cross and follow him. Does it say you have to give up everything you own, no, but it does talk about repenting of your sins and having god be number one in your life, nothing comes before him. It's a slightly radical statement Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ. it's a postmodern society kind of deal. How does it not deal with america? There's one of those things for me to, the ones that I'm sick and tired for. I can't stand it when I see a person with depression and brokenness in their eye, if you've been there you know the look in someone's eyes of they want the pain to end, they want to die, that they can't handle it anymore. Each time i see that i want to scream, and I can't stay silent, I can't stand around when i catch that look.
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:51 am
Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony X - Citation Needed - X Blood_Testimony Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ. it's a postmodern society kind of deal. How does it not deal with america? There's one of those things for me to, the ones that I'm sick and tired for. I can't stand it when I see a person with depression and brokenness in their eye, if you've been there you know the look in someone's eyes of they want the pain to end, they want to die, that they can't handle it anymore. Each time i see that i want to scream, and I can't stay silent, I can't stand around when i catch that look. This would not apply only to Americans or American Christians or the American Dream. Yes, some people have built up huge amounts of wealth and don't give any or give only what the IRS says they have to. Others give a lot of what they can without themselves winding up in a dumpster. It is only your gross misrepresentation of how things really are that is comparing every American and to a more staunch position, every American Christian to the people who say that the rich should not be taxed ever and that the poor and middle class should lose any benefits that they have just so that they aren't dying in the streets like vermin. Will you retract these generalizations or keep going with your highly overused rhetoric about how much America is a horrible place?
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:29 am
Blood_Testimony Splendid Sailor Venus This is where I had to sit down and really think about it. I love my collections of stuff and I love my family too. But what's really important to me? I started asking myself what I would do, or how I would react to losing each of these. Well, when it came to each of my things, I figured I could just replace it at convenience, and that there was no real impact on whether it was important or not. Even if the house burns down, I'd just have to build or buy another one. Not that big a deal really. But when it comes to family, or other people I love, losing them is actually hurtful, and I would chose loosing everything before losing my family, so I think I'm straight on that issue. I still admit, I love my stuff, but I came to realize true love and material love are and should be two different things. And material love should never trump the love of others. Even as an athesit I can see that. And the concept of God in the matter isn't really all that foreign to me. Loving my father is a concept that hits quite close to home actually. And I know a lot of Christians who are well off. Some own their own businesses. Many of them value that it is more important to teach a man to fish, than to just give him a fish. They may have a lot of money, but the way they see it (and I agree with them) is that just giving away money is lazy, and is not the work God wants them to do. They use their money to take care of their family and as a means to carry out God's work. Because of their money, they can travel far and wide, and everywhere their business goes, so does the gospel they carry. And they share that gospel everywhere they go. They use their money to make some offerings, sure. They have given gifts to total strangers, but in doing so, they have invoked curiosity in those strangers. They show them they are generous, but they do so in speaking of the Lord. It makes clear to those whom they are giving that their actions are a part of something bigger. The free handout is usually followed by a teaching or lesson of God, and in most cases the person being gifted becomes quite interested. Some walk away with what they got, not interested in anything else, but I think people see the example they are making in their actions, and they are attracted to what they see God doing in their lives. It's then that the teaching how to fish prospect comes into play. They will invite people to church and start sharing what a Godly life is to people. It's actually done a number on turning people's lives around for the better, and I'm grateful to have been a witness to that. Here's another thing for you though that starts to hit home Mathew 6:25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food and the body more important than clothes? Kinda getting to the point of saying hey you're going to be poor, don't rely on money for comfort or survival, but rely on god. And to giving up your family Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple What do you think? The Luke quote is in reference to his disciples then, most of whom had pagan relatives. And religion has always run deep. Christ was commanding them not to stay on a path of sin and death to appease their family or friends but to follow His word. Being raised in a Christian family I am commanded to "honor my mother and father". Hating them, then, would be un-Christ-like.
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:55 am
Blood_Testimony Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ. joel osteen preaches prosperity because he prospers. that's just what he knows. I have mixed feelings towards televangelists (even my girl, Joyce) only because I hope people are reading everything they don't talk about. I've been going to some churches for years and they most certainly have not covered any and everything written in the Bible, which is a disservice. I know the Gospels back and forth, but what about the historical significance of the shorter books, or the non-Gospel books of the New Testament? A "real" Christian should get to kno the Word forwards backwards and sideways, but it's trying hen people rely on the preached gospel of pastors, ut don't pick up the Book, and when they do it's one of the same 15 books that they always looked at.
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:17 am
Gjornia X A "real" Christian should get to kno the Word forwards backwards and sideways, but it's trying hen people rely on the preached gospel of pastors, ut don't pick up the Book, and when they do it's one of the same 15 books that they always looked at. I have to disagree. Being among the Christians who realize that the Bible was written through men by God then translated, re-translated, and modernized by humans, I don't trust everything in the bible. Some parts do contradict other parts and there are parts that are missing. A "real" Christian is simply somebody who believes in Jesus Christ and accepts him as their savior and, as such, the son of God. A "good" Christian knows the words in the bible and can help teach others. But to me, the best kind of Christian is the kind that knows the bible and can both speak and listen to God. Maybe not in the literal sense of being able to hear God speaking all the time, but there's always that feeling a person gets when they know what God wants them to do. Learning to listen to that is, to me, the most important thing to do as a Christian. However, all that is mere opinion and speculation. What it all boils down to, what the most important thing really is, is simply to accept Jesus Christ as your savior and the son of God. He is our path to salvation.
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Lord Alucard Ere Casanova
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:23 am
Gjornia X Blood_Testimony Parts of america, some churches have adopted a gospel that is not what christ taught, some are prevalent in california, Joel olsteen never talks about sin and has a prosperity gospel which is nothing like what christ taught us, America has squabbles in its churches like they were having in corinth and in lots of the churhes back in the first century and it's not working. We may be having an issue with us both having different definitions of the american dream, but one thing christ didn't call us to be was comfortable. We are called to be like christ. joel osteen preaches prosperity because he prospers. that's just what he knows. I have mixed feelings towards televangelists (even my girl, Joyce) only because I hope people are reading everything they don't talk about. I've been going to some churches for years and they most certainly have not covered any and everything written in the Bible, which is a disservice. I know the Gospels back and forth, but what about the historical significance of the shorter books, or the non-Gospel books of the New Testament? A "real" Christian should get to kno the Word forwards backwards and sideways, but it's trying hen people rely on the preached gospel of pastors, ut don't pick up the Book, and when they do it's one of the same 15 books that they always looked at. I'm with you there for the most part, though the point for pastors is to always give it all, and never water it down. Some places like in china they don't have access to all the information in the bible and don't know any context, but the beautiful part is that when they get the chance, they jump on it and give all they have to put it into their hearts. But the entire message is tied to the cross, so you can't just have the other books, but you'd want to have all of it, and keep digging. I've been in one chapter for about 2 hours before i needed get something done, and there was more to get out of it smile The real deal is to hunger and thirst for god's word with all we are and believe it and follow it with all we are.
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:03 pm
Lord Kilo Von Mortenson I have to disagree. Being among the Christians who realize that the Bible was written through men by God then translated, re-translated, and modernized by humans, I don't trust everything in the bible. Some parts do contradict other parts and there are parts that are missing. A "real" Christian is simply somebody who believes in Jesus Christ and accepts him as their savior and, as such, the son of God. A "good" Christian knows the words in the bible and can help teach others. But to me, the best kind of Christian is the kind that knows the bible and can both speak and listen to God. Maybe not in the literal sense of being able to hear God speaking all the time, but there's always that feeling a person gets when they know what God wants them to do. Learning to listen to that is, to me, the most important thing to do as a Christian. However, all that is mere opinion and speculation. What it all boils down to, what the most important thing really is, is simply to accept Jesus Christ as your savior and the son of God. He is our path to salvation. I can agree with your "real Christian" response. But knowing the Bible is just as important. It's how God reveals himself in matters big and small. To me, the Bible isn't contradicting. There are editions that obscure the meaning in transliteration, but thank goodness for the internet and their sites with the dozens of different translations. I know I have personal prayer topics and my Bible study group makes us look at EVERY passage that talks about it. And then understanding it in context and how it relates to other scriptures. It's a lot of hard work, but doing that--though arduous--is a sure way for me to not get confused. Anyone here heard of the rule of first mention. That sometimes helps.
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:06 pm
Oh, and to answer the question in the title: Yes, there are American Christians who are Christians. There are a few who aren't and sort of do it to be "fashionable" (if that makes sense), but it's obvious through their actions and spirit. Also, never trust blanket statements about groups of people. Really, has any ever been right?
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:06 pm
I think that more American Christians (and Christians in any other country that is very wealthy and where Christianity is hardly challenged, if at all) have struggle with their walk than Christians in countries that are not as fortunate because it's easy for us to become complacent. It's said that it's easier for humans to find God when we've become desperately in need of him: if we have things easy in our lives, we often become confident in our own wills and powers and therefore trust less in God. When a person doesn't always have food or shelter, or are constantly persecuted or challenged for their faith, they more readily cling to God and His power. However, that does not mean that everyone fits either bill.
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Lord Alucard Ere Casanova
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:23 pm
Gjornia, I know the bible can be a very useful tool, but I only see it as that much. In terms of metal (being a blacksmith this is the best example I can think of) I see our version of the bible as copper while the original text is stainless steel. I hope that's not offensive, I just want to explain I don't mean to give the impression that the bible is useless or otherwise no good. I've used it countless times in explaining parts of Christianity to people and I've read it through as well, although I haven't memorized it. I just think it would mean more to me if I knew for a fact that what I was reading was the original text, that stainless steel that I can't get my hands on.
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:32 pm
Lord Kilo Von Mortenson Gjornia, I know the bible can be a very useful tool, but I only see it as that much. In terms of metal (being a blacksmith this is the best example I can think of) I see our version of the bible as copper while the original text is stainless steel. I hope that's not offensive, I just want to explain I don't mean to give the impression that the bible is useless or otherwise no good. I've used it countless times in explaining parts of Christianity to people and I've read it through as well, although I haven't memorized it. I just think it would mean more to me if I knew for a fact that what I was reading was the original text, that stainless steel that I can't get my hands on. You may have a point here. Just from reading some older books, from say the 1700's, or 1800's, I can see how later adaptions of the same books can differ quite a bit, and even the delivery or importance of the words can vary. I can only guesstimate that the Bible in its original stories, books, and scriptures probably was the very stainless steel you've mentioned. And I agree that there seems to be nothing that totally detracts from the ultimate lessons... oh wait... better example. 3nodding heart You know when you watch a foreign film and the language, voice impact and delivery is just spot on... and then it gets dubbed in poorly lip-synced garbage english and you're still getting the same story but somehow the delivery is a bit less meaningful. Well, maybe... or maybe I'm just rambling.
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:24 am
Lord Kilo Von Mortenson Gjornia, I know the bible can be a very useful tool, but I only see it as that much. In terms of metal (being a blacksmith this is the best example I can think of) I see our version of the bible as copper while the original text is stainless steel. I hope that's not offensive, I just want to explain I don't mean to give the impression that the bible is useless or otherwise no good. I've used it countless times in explaining parts of Christianity to people and I've read it through as well, although I haven't memorized it. I just think it would mean more to me if I knew for a fact that what I was reading was the original text, that stainless steel that I can't get my hands on. There's the closest you can get without having to learn Greek or Hebrew. All translations of the Bible are based either directly on the Vulgate or the notes of the Vulgate. Trouble with even having the "original texts" is that there are many expressions that get lost when translated to English, either because of being "lost in translation" or because the expression is long lost over the course of time. The meaning of expressions such as "hit the road" or "hold your horses" will be long lost in future time especially if it's translated in a different language. Even if you did find a "Stainless Steel" version of the texts of the Bible what would one do with it and hope to find? This is not an attack but an honest question. In case you'd like to know, the oldest edition of the Bible that is currently being used is the Ethiopian Bible within the Coptic Orthodox Church. Edit: While we are on the subject there was not one Christianity but many Christianities. Each Christianity had it's own set of scriptures it held in high regard. So even if you found a Stainless Steel copy of the Bible, you would have to wonder who's stainless steel copy of the Bible is the correct one. Next the idea of having a canon (Bible) did not become mainstream in Christianity until around 145ish CE. In Judaism, it was after 70 CE because with the destruction of the second temple and the threat of Christianity, is where we get a standard canon of Jewish Scriptures. We have to our first heretic Marcion for introducing this concept into Christianity. Other sects of Christianity followed his example of creating canons to rival his theology. Example of changing expressions: The expression "hard hearted" today means someone that is uncaring right? Well back then it meant someone that was not only uncaring but who was pig headed and closed minded. Why? Because the people back then believed that the mind was located in the heart. This stems back to why the Egyptians would save the hearts but toss out the brains. Because they believed that is where the mind was located. These are some things to think about when reading texts.
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:19 pm
I am a very American and Christian and I definitely believe that in America it is true that many people go through the motions of church, baptism, and worship without truly loving God in their hearts. Even adults as well as teenagers and children never fully recognize what it is to accept the love and sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
The Idea of the American Dream is the ability to come from nothing and to be successful in your own accomplishments. Not having to be born into money or power. It really matters what your personal definition of success is. Not to make tons of money.
The Bible in my opinion does not contradict itself. You have to remember that The Bible was written by many different people, some of them writing there books 30 years after the actual event occured. What's important is the moral that you take from it and not the exact wording. It has been written in many different languages and versions changing over time.
The importance of my message is that being American does not mean ignorant or Anti-Christ. I also believe you can be Christian with and without a church. I was without a church for around a year. I found a great church that makes me excited to go there. I was fortunate enough to be raised in a Christian home, but I have friends who are not as fortunate. I am proud to say that my friend and I have brought our friend to Christ, it is possible. For Christians without a church patience is a virtue and your church will come. I agree that many churches are not focused on Christ.
An issue is that children raised in Christian homes sometimes do not come to know Christ because they believe they accepted him at young age and never really did. You can usually tell when the continue to have negative words and behavior. Other kids are just never told about him and the concept is scary for them. So when people approach them they reject the unknown. These are all sad realities but if you are truly someones friend you will improve there lives with the truth about God. Make disciples!
“Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” This is the first and greatest commandment.”-Matthew 22:37-38
“But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners Christ died for us.” -Romans 5:8
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Lord Alucard Ere Casanova
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Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:12 am
Splendid Sailor Venus You know when you watch a foreign film and the language, voice impact and delivery is just spot on... and then it gets dubbed in poorly lip-synced garbage english and you're still getting the same story but somehow the delivery is a bit less meaningful. Well, maybe... or maybe I'm just rambling. That may be exactly what I mean, Venus, thank you. I actually have a movie just like that. It's in Chinese and stars Jet Li who does his own voice in Chinese, but for some reason seems to have somebody else speak for him in English even though he speaks English very well. Knowing his voice in both languages I can't watch the English version. It just isn't right. Rmc, thank you for the links. I'll save them for when I'm more awake. There are scrolls held within the Vatican and those are the ones I want to read. Many of the stories within our bibles came from those scrolls, or so I've been told. If only I had the time, energy, and some assurance that I could someday read those scrolls I would be delighted to learn whatever languages are required as well as the history of those languages to better understand terms used on the scrolls. As for what I'd do with it, I'd read and learn of course. Then attempt to share what I learn with others, just as so many others have. I know I wouldn't be the first to walk such a path, but that doesn't matter. And, of course, I certainly wouldn't hope to be the last to do so. For me a large part of the point in learning is being able to share the knowledge with others and help them to learn as well, in return I often find I learn more by teaching than I did when studying because not only do I better memorize what I already know I also learn allot about my peers and fellow scholars.
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