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 Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:16 pm
Super-Sui I dont know much about the other character but i have a lot of very good reasons why ichigo sucks. 1) Ichigo's zanpakuto has only 2 special abilities, it makes him fast and he can use Getsuga Tenshou. And now my problems with these two techniques. 1.1) Ichigo's so called 'amazing' speed is constantly outmatched after he rescues Rukia from Soul Society by nearly every opponent he faces. 1.2) The Getsuga Tenshou unless used at very close range either misses or does no damage at all yet again after he rescues Rukia. And when it does hit, Ichigo is usualy exhausted and his opponent can always still fight back! 2) The power levels in bleach got messed up when ichigo gained an inner hollow. Ok i understand a shinigami turning into a full hollow with Ichigo's power it would be strong but! He fights Ulquiorra and gets killed TWICE! in the same way! and second time he dies he becomes the hollow and kills Ulquiorra The 4TH Espada. My point is Byakuya and Kenpachi can kill Espada number 0 (the strongest Espada) with little effort and Ichigo has to die twice to beat the 4th? the essential make-up of him as a character is messed up. 3) No surprises at all, the most annoying thing about him. He is always the same, his sword was constantly released in shikai (yet it had no special power except Getsuga Tenshou) then he learned Bankai which he then used in every single fight from then on. Most annoyingly of all he never learns any new powers even in Bankai! He has a Hollow mask but all that does is make him stronger, he is just the same person with a mask and different voice his fights are immensely boring because he has nothing new to show. I look forward to seeing his opponents powers then hope the fight ends quick before he has one of his huge poinltess conversations with them
1) Concerning his powers:
He has been a Shinigami for what, maybe a year now, tops? I think if anyone with his potential was given three days to learn Bankai and stuff, they could only come up with one move. While Renji did learn more, he does spend at least 20x more of his spare time training, no?
1)Concerning his out-of-whack-scales:
Yes, Espada Four killed him twice. After he had worked his way through the Menos Forest, Desert, and the Privaron Espada, Dordionii. If he didn't match up then, thats understandable. He was tired on his first try. The second try resulted in his death after the Fourth Espada completed one of the most powerful moves of his Final Form. If Ichigo, not yet in his Final form was NOT killed then, you would be compleining how he didn't die then, now wouldn't you.
3) His Boringnesss:
Aren't all the characters just repeating themselve's essetially? You don't get bored of other Bleach characters, the only difference is then either being newer than Ichigo, or having more attacks. The usefullness of a character's power doen't come from the amount of attacks, put the effectiveness. You say Ichigo's Getsuga isn't really worth it? He defeated Dordionii with a single slash of it with his mask on for pete's sake!
Thank you for your time.
GO ICHI!
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:33 am
YummyBiscuits Super-Sui I dont know much about the other character but i have a lot of very good reasons why ichigo sucks. 1) Ichigo's zanpakuto has only 2 special abilities, it makes him fast and he can use Getsuga Tenshou. And now my problems with these two techniques. 1.1) Ichigo's so called 'amazing' speed is constantly outmatched after he rescues Rukia from Soul Society by nearly every opponent he faces. 1.2) The Getsuga Tenshou unless used at very close range either misses or does no damage at all yet again after he rescues Rukia. And when it does hit, Ichigo is usualy exhausted and his opponent can always still fight back! 2) The power levels in bleach got messed up when ichigo gained an inner hollow. Ok i understand a shinigami turning into a full hollow with Ichigo's power it would be strong but! He fights Ulquiorra and gets killed TWICE! in the same way! and second time he dies he becomes the hollow and kills Ulquiorra The 4TH Espada. My point is Byakuya and Kenpachi can kill Espada number 0 (the strongest Espada) with little effort and Ichigo has to die twice to beat the 4th? the essential make-up of him as a character is messed up. 3) No surprises at all, the most annoying thing about him. He is always the same, his sword was constantly released in shikai (yet it had no special power except Getsuga Tenshou) then he learned Bankai which he then used in every single fight from then on. Most annoyingly of all he never learns any new powers even in Bankai! He has a Hollow mask but all that does is make him stronger, he is just the same person with a mask and different voice his fights are immensely boring because he has nothing new to show. I look forward to seeing his opponents powers then hope the fight ends quick before he has one of his huge poinltess conversations with them
1) Concerning his powers:
He has been a Shinigami for what, maybe a year now, tops? I think if anyone with his potential was given three days to learn Bankai and stuff, they could only come up with one move. While Renji did learn more, he does spend at least 20x more of his spare time training, no?
1)Concerning his out-of-whack-scales:
Yes, Espada Four killed him twice. After he had worked his way through the Menos Forest, Desert, and the Privaron Espada, Dordionii. If he didn't match up then, thats understandable. He was tired on his first try. The second try resulted in his death after the Fourth Espada completed one of the most powerful moves of his Final Form. If Ichigo, not yet in his Final form was NOT killed then, you would be compleining how he didn't die then, now wouldn't you.
3) His Boringnesss:
Aren't all the characters just repeating themselve's essetially? You don't get bored of other Bleach characters, the only difference is then either being newer than Ichigo, or having more attacks. The usefullness of a character's power doen't come from the amount of attacks, put the effectiveness. You say Ichigo's Getsuga isn't really worth it? He defeated Dordionii with a single slash of it with his mask on for pete's sake!
Thank you for your time.
GO ICHI!It's not that he's not powerful he's just the most uninteresting character ever lol. You have made valid points and i agree with a lot of what you said thanks for sharing your oppinion smile (as you can probbaly tell i will debate without getting angry at other people's oppinions, everybody is different biggrin ) it is true he killed the priviron espada Dordionii but they were the old sucky espada that got kicked out when Aizen created the others that became like 100x stronger than the originals lol and concidering Ichigo would have been completely weak and pathetic if it werent for the power of the Hogyoku constantly making his ambition to save his friends come true.. gota say i feel sorry for the old espada that werent created by Aizen their home got taken away by arrancar that cheated to become Espada xD
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:10 am
You are right on the account the Privaron are the weaker version of the Espada. That is the main reason I prefer to Role-play Espada instead of watching them. Espada should work for it, not just be chosen by a douche and then cheat there way up.
But I respect you more for your first paragraph there. Just epic. Dbate isn't about getting angry, but about Voicing your opinion. Many have forgotten that, even in national Debate teams. Thank you for that man.
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:20 am
Well, I for one think Ed is soo much more better than Ichi.
xp
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:16 am
Upon consideration, I would like to point out that Ichigo's battle scene's are less entertaining that Ed's. I mean honestly, the best part of Ichigo's battle scenes are when the "If yah wanna see some action" music pops up, and then when it dies down the scene gets boring again. The rest are just boring, 'top this' maneuvers, as Kami-Aizen Lampshades during his fight with the Big Three (you know who they are).
I see Ichigo's power ups after the SS to be Tite's lame attempts in order to level up Ichigo into a being that can face Aizen, Tite's Mary Sue. Face it, Bleach can never top its first season, EVER. Do you ever get excited to see Ichigo fight someone? I know I don't, cause we all know he'll just nearly die for the umpteenth time and then someone Tite will write hima way out.
Ed, on the other hand, is already at the peak of his game, and with the help of his friends faces nicely balanced badniks. Which brings up another point, Ichigo employs very little teamwork. In fact, I have the feeling that the last time he was directly helped in battle was when Uryu strapped Ichigo's sword to his head.
And let's face it: who doesn't want the ability to clap your hands together, stomp them down to the ground, and make things happen? mrgreen
(Another point just occurred to me: Ichigo seems to have something against saving his love interest; remember the hundred episodes where Rukia was lying down dying in a castle somewhere, whilst Ichigo was saving Ginger Boobs from Mr. Kitty?)
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:44 pm
Dionysus or Bacchus Upon consideration, I would like to point out that Ichigo's battle scene's are less entertaining that Ed's. I mean honestly, the best part of Ichigo's battle scenes are when the "If yah wanna see some action" music pops up, and then when it dies down the scene gets boring again. The rest are just boring, 'top this' maneuvers, as Kami-Aizen Lampshades during his fight with the Big Three (you know who they are). I see Ichigo's power ups after the SS to be Tite's lame attempts in order to level up Ichigo into a being that can face Aizen, Tite's Mary Sue. Face it, Bleach can never top its first season, EVER. Do you ever get excited to see Ichigo fight someone? I know I don't, cause we all know he'll just nearly die for the umpteenth time and then someone Tite will write hima way out. Ed, on the other hand, is already at the peak of his game, and with the help of his friends faces nicely balanced badniks. Which brings up another point, Ichigo employs very little teamwork. In fact, I have the feeling that the last time he was directly helped in battle was when Uryu strapped Ichigo's sword to his head. And let's face it: who doesn't want the ability to clap your hands together, stomp them down to the ground, and make things happen? mrgreen (Another point just occurred to me: Ichigo seems to have something against saving his love interest; remember the hundred episodes where Rukia was lying down dying in a castle somewhere, whilst Ichigo was saving Ginger Boobs from Mr. Kitty?) 1: there is a certain type of entertainment in seeing someone who supposed to be superpowerful getting slapped through a building 2: Not really, we already know who's gonna win 3: Gather together to save friend in a place where you will probably die. Split up 5 episodes later. Twice 4: Amputees, that's just taunting them 5: ...I'm not getting into that 6: Filler, FMA:B has little (although the first anime could be considered all filler) Bleach on the other hand has What 5 Filler arcs? Atleast it's ending soon.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:14 am
Shadowlord9k Dionysus or Bacchus Upon consideration, I would like to point out that Ichigo's battle scene's are less entertaining that Ed's. I mean honestly, the best part of Ichigo's battle scenes are when the "If yah wanna see some action" music pops up, and then when it dies down the scene gets boring again. The rest are just boring, 'top this' maneuvers, as Kami-Aizen Lampshades during his fight with the Big Three (you know who they are). I see Ichigo's power ups after the SS to be Tite's lame attempts in order to level up Ichigo into a being that can face Aizen, Tite's Mary Sue. Face it, Bleach can never top its first season, EVER. Do you ever get excited to see Ichigo fight someone? I know I don't, cause we all know he'll just nearly die for the umpteenth time and then someone Tite will write hima way out. Ed, on the other hand, is already at the peak of his game, and with the help of his friends faces nicely balanced badniks. Which brings up another point, Ichigo employs very little teamwork. In fact, I have the feeling that the last time he was directly helped in battle was when Uryu strapped Ichigo's sword to his head. And let's face it: who doesn't want the ability to clap your hands together, stomp them down to the ground, and make things happen? mrgreen (Another point just occurred to me: Ichigo seems to have something against saving his love interest; remember the hundred episodes where Rukia was lying down dying in a castle somewhere, whilst Ichigo was saving Ginger Boobs from Mr. Kitty?) 1: there is a certain type of entertainment in seeing someone who supposed to be superpowerful getting slapped through a building 2: Not really, we already know who's gonna win 3: Gather together to save friend in a place where you will probably die. Split up 5 episodes later. Twice 4: Amputees, that's just taunting them 5: ...I'm not getting into that 6: Filler, FMA:B has little (although the first anime could be considered all filler) Bleach on the other hand has What 5 Filler arcs? Atleast it's ending soon. 1. Not when it happens in every fight scene concerning Ichigo. 2. But you already know how he is going to win; Tite's gonna give him yet another power up and yet another reason for fighting. Boooring. 3. Whilst in Bleach it's episode after episode of one man stand offs . . . that don't end in the episode they were started in, one thing that FMAB does quite well. 4. Ed's an amputee himself, and I don't see him complaining. 5. So you do not deny that Ichigo's just a fifteen year old male after all??? 6. So true; though, frankly, the Ayamagi arc is my FAVORITE season of bleach, including non-filler.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:55 am
Dionysus or Bacchus Shadowlord9k Dionysus or Bacchus Upon consideration, I would like to point out that Ichigo's battle scene's are less entertaining that Ed's. I mean honestly, the best part of Ichigo's battle scenes are when the "If yah wanna see some action" music pops up, and then when it dies down the scene gets boring again. The rest are just boring, 'top this' maneuvers, as Kami-Aizen Lampshades during his fight with the Big Three (you know who they are). I see Ichigo's power ups after the SS to be Tite's lame attempts in order to level up Ichigo into a being that can face Aizen, Tite's Mary Sue. Face it, Bleach can never top its first season, EVER. Do you ever get excited to see Ichigo fight someone? I know I don't, cause we all know he'll just nearly die for the umpteenth time and then someone Tite will write hima way out. Ed, on the other hand, is already at the peak of his game, and with the help of his friends faces nicely balanced badniks. Which brings up another point, Ichigo employs very little teamwork. In fact, I have the feeling that the last time he was directly helped in battle was when Uryu strapped Ichigo's sword to his head. And let's face it: who doesn't want the ability to clap your hands together, stomp them down to the ground, and make things happen? mrgreen (Another point just occurred to me: Ichigo seems to have something against saving his love interest; remember the hundred episodes where Rukia was lying down dying in a castle somewhere, whilst Ichigo was saving Ginger Boobs from Mr. Kitty?) 1: there is a certain type of entertainment in seeing someone who supposed to be superpowerful getting slapped through a building 2: Not really, we already know who's gonna win 3: Gather together to save friend in a place where you will probably die. Split up 5 episodes later. Twice 4: Amputees, that's just taunting them 5: ...I'm not getting into that 6: Filler, FMA:B has little (although the first anime could be considered all filler) Bleach on the other hand has What 5 Filler arcs? Atleast it's ending soon. 1. Not when it happens in every fight scene concerning Ichigo. 2. But you already know how he is going to win; Tite's gonna give him yet another power up and yet another reason for fighting. Boooring. 3. Whilst in Bleach it's episode after episode of one man stand offs . . . that don't end in the episode they were started in, one thing that FMAB does quite well. 4. Ed's an amputee himself, and I don't see him complaining. 5. So you do not deny that Ichigo's just a fifteen year old male after all??? 6. So true; though, frankly, the Ayamagi arc is my FAVORITE season of bleach, including non-filler. 1: point taken 2: yeah 3: pretty much what I meant 4: point taken 5: ... 6: yeah, I like this arc
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:13 am
So like I had said Earlier, While I lean more towards Bleach (As a result of seeing Bleach first), The two anime hero's suck. Ed would get killed by Ichigo,and since Ichigo just... sucks, through transition of the suck, Ed sucks.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:30 am
Pesronally I can only say Ichigo, if anything at all cause I only know as much about Ed that was in a magazine I read.... which wasn't really much.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:36 am
I would have to go with Ed cuz he is just soooooo funny but kicks a**.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:47 am
I really can't offer out an opinion. I've only seen Bleach out of the two... And I fudgen love it.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:13 pm
YummyBiscuits So like I had said Earlier, While I lean more towards Bleach (As a result of seeing Bleach first), The two anime hero's suck. Ed would get killed by Ichigo,and since Ichigo just... sucks, through transition of the suck, Ed sucks. So, because Ed is a balanced and somewhat believable hero (after all, he was known to be exceptionally gifted since his early childhood, unlike Ichigo . . . who only saw ghosts until the plot caught up with him), you are going to say he loses to Ichigo . . . the hero that continually 'dies'.
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:21 pm
*wipes sweat off forehead* This has been a good debate so far! Because I am lazy, I am going to open up a poll to decide the winner. After all, this is a oligar democra autocracy (run by a crazy person). So get out there and vote. And please, don't vote right off the bat, but read the arguments this guild has brought up and decide from them.
Oh, and if the pol results seemed skewed, a compilation of data will compiled and a winner will be chosen that way: by what the hard facts given by you guys say. Yah know what, we'll just do the poll for fun, and the winner will be chosen by the facts presented. Yep, sounds good!
Poll closes in x days!
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:19 am
YummyBiscuits But...THEY...BOTH...SUUUUCCCCCKKKKKK.
There is no debate between the two, as both characters are simply...Ugh. They make RP characters you guys, debate over those peeps. rofl I disagree wholly with that statement when it comes to Ichigo. Though, yes, he does need a few more attacks and a little more power balance, the reason why he doesn't have that many attacks and why his Shikai and Bankai are the way that they are is because he has a melee based Zanpakuto.
Melee types do not have a lot of special powers, focusing mainly on the brute force aspects of combat more then Kido use. Byakuya's Zanpakuto is technically in-between the Kido type and Projectile types, which gives him those deadly abilities of his. It just depends on the elemental properties of the character involved.
Besides, more often then not, you will find that main characters are somewhat dumbed down or given more restrictions to allow the other characters in the series to rise, to allow them to be recognized and thus not make the main character all that the show cares about, which is how it should be. If you make the main character sublimely awesome, not only is it not realistic, it steals light from the other characters.
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