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 Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:13 pm
RurouniZakku xxEternallyBluexx RurouniZakku xxEternallyBluexx ...you know the probably in that statement shows it takes faith to believe in evolution too? I know there's a good reason: God did it. You know why we're extraordinary? We're a complex result. We aren't just dirt or matter, but we have energy at our core. There is no reason to expect this would happen anyway or to say it isn't extraordinary we're here, okay? And as for Hoyle's fallacy, we're not calculating the odds of a recorded and observed event. We're calculating the odds for something for which other possibilities remain. To look at the likelihood that of the event therefore makes sense, because then you can see of the other possibilities are more likely. If we are a complex result, it only increases the improbablitity that we shouldn't have come into being. Not taking evolution into account. If Earth had been closer to the sun, we would never have formed, because intelligent life would become impossible. If we were a were a little bit farther away, life would be to cold, and we would not have formed. In both scenarios, the gravity would have been different, and the earth would be out of its axis. In fact, the probability that Earth would even have an orbit at such a perfect spot. It's not the hand of god. As long as there's a possibility that it can happen, in some universe, it happened. What created those universes? How do we know they exist? People have seen evidence of God through personal experience, but no one has ever seen these places. And what jump-started the Big Bang? The time before the big bang is believed to have had the four forces compressed together, when the pressure became to much, it went off. It wasn't really a "big bang", thats just a name, it actually happened rather slowly. As it went off went off the forces started to separate, and life was inhospitable. Thats the best I can describe it without quoting Hawkins, or Michio Kaku. I think I may go and try and take another swing at the Universe in a Nutshell (a book I have about it. I tried it in 8th grade, but it was a little heavy for me)....I need a bit more of an explanation... And what of the first two questions? Well, as for who created the universes, we can't prove that anyone created it, but we have theories on how they were created. as for the second question, every possibility exists in one parallel universe, no matter the odds against it. Its believed that the laws of physics could be different in any of these universes. Or you just know the guy who did it. ^_^ But why should other universes exist, who or what created them, and what proff do we have of them?
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:14 pm
xxEternallyBluexx And you don't think animals get thinned out and inbreed in the wild? Sure they do, and that's why they die out. Cheetahs are one such example. There's hardly any genetic diversity left, that's why they're in such trouble. xxEternallyBluexx How does a one-celled bacteria supply all the genetic material for the world? The genetic material accumulates over periods time.
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:19 pm
Artto xxEternallyBluexx And you don't think animals get thinned out and inbreed in the wild? Sure they do, and that's why they die out. xxEternallyBluexx How does a one-celled bacteria supply all the genetic material for the world? The genetic material accumulates over periods time. Then why do we still have such a variety? Where does the new material come from? (Don't say mutations, because there's hardly enough of them for that to work, and you'd have to have them appear at key moment, like plant life showing up when animal life does, or male and female forming together within the same lifetime)
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:38 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Artto xxEternallyBluexx And you don't think animals get thinned out and inbreed in the wild? Sure they do, and that's why they die out. xxEternallyBluexx How does a one-celled bacteria supply all the genetic material for the world? The genetic material accumulates over periods time. Then why do we still have such a variety? Where does the new material come from? (Don't say mutations, because there's hardly enough of them for that to work, and you'd have to have them appear at key moment, like plant life showing up when animal life does, or male and female forming together within the same lifetime) Selective mating... for instance say there is a species of lizards that are preyed upon by a certain type of bird. the lizards come in three sizes, one thats bigger with longer legs that are better to run with and the smaller ones are batter at hiding so the medium sized ones are going to be more attractive to mate with because they combine the best of both world... There are other examples i learned about in biology And in reference to the other conversation I want to point out that if there is a different universe for every possibility than there is at least one in which every opinion that any one person believes in is true... which means there is one in which Eternally Blue is right..... I know that doesn't help us figure out which one this is but I thought it was an interesting point.
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Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:50 pm
Blue, think of it like this- Breeding is like a copying machine. You're printing out a paper 10 million times a day. Every once in a while, a letter gets changed. One letter. A small glitch in the system. These papers are then put onto their own copiers and are copied millions of times each. Again, once in a while, there's a different letter. Given a year, you may expect 20 or so new words. Given ten million years, do you think you'll even recognize the paper anymore?
Or do it with a song- Once out of every five million downloads, a song changes by one note by mistake. This song is copied and downloaded millions of times a day and is updated daily by the newer version. Given a few hundred years, will it be the same song?
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:48 am
xxEternallyBluexx Then why do we still have such a variety? Because a lot of time has passed. Quote: Where does the new material come from? (Don't say mutations, because there's hardly enough of them for that to work, and you'd have to have them appear at key moment, like plant life showing up when animal life does, or male and female forming together within the same lifetime) Yes it does come from mutations. Small mutations, which are much more common. Large mutations are almost never beneficial to an organism. I think you have the misconception that evolution works in huge leaps. A new species doesn't come about because of a single huge mutation. Usually, 2 populations get separated, and gradually start to drift apart, until they are no longer able to interbreed, effectively becoming two separate species.
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:52 pm
Artto xxEternallyBluexx Then why do we still have such a variety? Because a lot of time has passed. Quote: Where does the new material come from? (Don't say mutations, because there's hardly enough of them for that to work, and you'd have to have them appear at key moment, like plant life showing up when animal life does, or male and female forming together within the same lifetime) Yes it does come from mutations. Small mutations, which are much more common. Large mutations are almost never beneficial to an organism. I think you have the misconception that evolution works in huge leaps. A new species doesn't come about because of a single huge mutation. Usually, 2 populations get separated, and gradually start to drift apart, until they are no longer able to interbreed, effectively becoming two separate species. Is there any record of this happening? Have we watched two species do this?
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:58 pm
divineseraph Blue, think of it like this- Breeding is like a copying machine. You're printing out a paper 10 million times a day. Every once in a while, a letter gets changed. One letter. A small glitch in the system. These papers are then put onto their own copiers and are copied millions of times each. Again, once in a while, there's a different letter. Given a year, you may expect 20 or so new words. Given ten million years, do you think you'll even recognize the paper anymore? Or do it with a song- Once out of every five million downloads, a song changes by one note by mistake. This song is copied and downloaded millions of times a day and is updated daily by the newer version. Given a few hundred years, will it be the same song? Are there that many copies being made though? Plus the piling up theory doesn't work because how do you develop something complex like an eye? Do you develop it cell by cell? You have to start somewhere and it has to help the organism survive within the first generation that develops it. Note: If anyone can go on and outline how an eye, or a heart or any other complex system develops, step-by-step, I'll be very impressed. :3
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:01 pm
Itachi_Hare xxEternallyBluexx Artto xxEternallyBluexx And you don't think animals get thinned out and inbreed in the wild? Sure they do, and that's why they die out. xxEternallyBluexx How does a one-celled bacteria supply all the genetic material for the world? The genetic material accumulates over periods time. Then why do we still have such a variety? Where does the new material come from? (Don't say mutations, because there's hardly enough of them for that to work, and you'd have to have them appear at key moment, like plant life showing up when animal life does, or male and female forming together within the same lifetime) Selective mating... for instance say there is a species of lizards that are preyed upon by a certain type of bird. the lizards come in three sizes, one thats bigger with longer legs that are better to run with and the smaller ones are batter at hiding so the medium sized ones are going to be more attractive to mate with because they combine the best of both world... There are other examples i learned about in biology And in reference to the other conversation I want to point out that if there is a different universe for every possibility than there is at least one in which every opinion that any one person believes in is true... which means there is one in which Eternally Blue is right..... I know that doesn't help us figure out which one this is but I thought it was an interesting point. That's micro-evolution, but I don't think anyone's shown how micro-evolution stacks up into macro-evolution. Nope. If God's in command He created everything, but if not, then everything is random chance and we really are nothing more then glowing dust specks.
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:13 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Is there any record of this happening? Have we watched two species do this? Yes. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:15 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Itachi_Hare xxEternallyBluexx Artto xxEternallyBluexx And you don't think animals get thinned out and inbreed in the wild? Sure they do, and that's why they die out. xxEternallyBluexx How does a one-celled bacteria supply all the genetic material for the world? The genetic material accumulates over periods time. Then why do we still have such a variety? Where does the new material come from? (Don't say mutations, because there's hardly enough of them for that to work, and you'd have to have them appear at key moment, like plant life showing up when animal life does, or male and female forming together within the same lifetime) Selective mating... for instance say there is a species of lizards that are preyed upon by a certain type of bird. the lizards come in three sizes, one thats bigger with longer legs that are better to run with and the smaller ones are batter at hiding so the medium sized ones are going to be more attractive to mate with because they combine the best of both world... There are other examples i learned about in biology And in reference to the other conversation I want to point out that if there is a different universe for every possibility than there is at least one in which every opinion that any one person believes in is true... which means there is one in which Eternally Blue is right..... I know that doesn't help us figure out which one this is but I thought it was an interesting point. That's micro-evolution, but I don't think anyone's shown how micro-evolution stacks up into macro-evolution. Nope. If God's in command He created everything, but if not, then everything is random chance and we really are nothing more then glowing dust specks. What's so bad about that. I kind of like the idea of being glowing dust specks.
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:07 pm
xxEternallyBluexx RurouniZakku xxEternallyBluexx RurouniZakku xxEternallyBluexx ...you know the probably in that statement shows it takes faith to believe in evolution too? I know there's a good reason: God did it. You know why we're extraordinary? We're a complex result. We aren't just dirt or matter, but we have energy at our core. There is no reason to expect this would happen anyway or to say it isn't extraordinary we're here, okay? And as for Hoyle's fallacy, we're not calculating the odds of a recorded and observed event. We're calculating the odds for something for which other possibilities remain. To look at the likelihood that of the event therefore makes sense, because then you can see of the other possibilities are more likely. If we are a complex result, it only increases the improbablitity that we shouldn't have come into being. Not taking evolution into account. If Earth had been closer to the sun, we would never have formed, because intelligent life would become impossible. If we were a were a little bit farther away, life would be to cold, and we would not have formed. In both scenarios, the gravity would have been different, and the earth would be out of its axis. In fact, the probability that Earth would even have an orbit at such a perfect spot. It's not the hand of god. As long as there's a possibility that it can happen, in some universe, it happened. What created those universes? How do we know they exist? People have seen evidence of God through personal experience, but no one has ever seen these places. And what jump-started the Big Bang? The time before the big bang is believed to have had the four forces compressed together, when the pressure became to much, it went off. It wasn't really a "big bang", thats just a name, it actually happened rather slowly. As it went off went off the forces started to separate, and life was inhospitable. Thats the best I can describe it without quoting Hawkins, or Michio Kaku. I think I may go and try and take another swing at the Universe in a Nutshell (a book I have about it. I tried it in 8th grade, but it was a little heavy for me)....I need a bit more of an explanation... And what of the first two questions? Well, as for who created the universes, we can't prove that anyone created it, but we have theories on how they were created. as for the second question, every possibility exists in one parallel universe, no matter the odds against it. Its believed that the laws of physics could be different in any of these universes. Or you just know the guy who did it. ^_^ But why should other universes exist, who or what created them, and what proff do we have of them? The "proof' we have of parallel worlds, is that they have been proven true through the laws of physics. Though their is no way to experimentally prove that they exist, it's believed that we will within a few centuries. A reason for the sprouting of a new universe has been defined as when a different possibility occurred in anything that happens in our or any other universe. Though the chances of a creator are incalculable at this time, we have no proof that anything creates the universes, but that comes back to what brought about our universe.
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:41 pm
xxEternallyBluexx divineseraph Blue, think of it like this- Breeding is like a copying machine. You're printing out a paper 10 million times a day. Every once in a while, a letter gets changed. One letter. A small glitch in the system. These papers are then put onto their own copiers and are copied millions of times each. Again, once in a while, there's a different letter. Given a year, you may expect 20 or so new words. Given ten million years, do you think you'll even recognize the paper anymore? Or do it with a song- Once out of every five million downloads, a song changes by one note by mistake. This song is copied and downloaded millions of times a day and is updated daily by the newer version. Given a few hundred years, will it be the same song? Are there that many copies being made though? Plus the piling up theory doesn't work because how do you develop something complex like an eye? Do you develop it cell by cell? You have to start somewhere and it has to help the organism survive within the first generation that develops it. Note: If anyone can go on and outline how an eye, or a heart or any other complex system develops, step-by-step, I'll be very impressed. :3 We see this in light-sensitive membranes. Many aquatic creatures have them- They detect light but little else. It takes only a little bit more development to get a refined eye, namely seeing shapes- then depth, and then color. Being able to sense light helps the creature detect motion around it, such as incoming predators. However, the idea that the change must benefit the organism is a fallacy- The change must simply survive. If it is a negative change, such as being born on fire, the creature obviously isn't going to pass it on. If it's a neutral change, like a slight variation in color, it could very well pass it on. If it's a beneficial change such as being able to detect light, it is most likely to be passed on, as the creature will survive to do so. It's not so much that the creatures change to survive, it's the opposite- Whatever survives makes up the change, as it survived to do so.
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:45 pm
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 pm
Artto xxEternallyBluexx Is there any record of this happening? Have we watched two species do this? Yes. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html Huh...I'm gonna reply back after I think about it a bit, okay?
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