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What do you think about images of the Prophet Muhammad?
  There should be absolutely no images of him
  I would personally never depict him, but I don't get angry if other people do
  It depends. Tasteful ones are okay, offensive ones are not
  I think they're all fine. It's freedom of speech.
  I have no idea...
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Bharatiyaa_ larki

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:11 pm


Artto
Bharatiyaa_ larki
No, in fact it's unfair to do things that you Know is offensive to a group of people.


Almost anything can be offensive to some group of people.

Bharatiyaa_ larki
But if I draw an offensive picture of a jew with an extremely large nose or a black with big lips is that freedom of speech?


That is freedom of speech, but is also racist. Exactly how that is comparable to this:

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

is beyond me.


but what you are doing is wrong
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:22 pm


Bharatiyaa_ larki
but what you are doing is wrong


Why? Because it somehow offends you? That doesn't make it wrong.

Artto


divineseraph

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:21 pm


Endure Error
divineseraph


If the problem is worshiping our own drawings and depictions, I've already confronted this. We could also worship trees and stones and animals as they are, really. The entire argument is a slippery slope based on what we MIGHT do. How does this make the depiction of animate things evil inherently?

Your argument is inherently flawed by the objective rules of logic. Mine is flawed based only on what MAY happen to SOME people.


People don't really worship inanimate objects because they DON'T have a soul. Animals are animate, that's why we don't depict them either. Humans are VERY likely to be lead astray; that's because we were created weak. It makes it evil because people don't worship things that aren't alive because people can't assign power to them (even when people do worship inanimate objects they assign them a soul which is the same as personifying/animating them which is what we're avoiding overall). It's evil to worship anything besides the One & Only God because He is the only One that is Praiseworthy.
It's all about being reasonable, logical, & knowledgeable. That doesn't mean ignore feelings because when you consider something to be right in all those aspects, they feel to be the truth. How could that be flawed? You're trying to find weakness in my argument, but your counterpoint hasn't proved anything nor has it disproved what I've said. Go ahead & say what you will, but proof is always necessary.


What? Seriously?

You're ASSUMING that people will worship drawings and animals. If animals are not inherently evil because people MAY worship them, then neither are drawings. Seriously.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:20 pm


Artto
Bharatiyaa_ larki
but what you are doing is wrong


Why? Because it somehow offends you? That doesn't make it wrong.


But any generous person with compassion would not want to hurt another person.. whether it is with pictures, or guns, etc.

Bharatiyaa_ larki

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Bharatiyaa_ larki

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:32 pm


divineseraph
Endure Error
divineseraph


If the problem is worshiping our own drawings and depictions, I've already confronted this. We could also worship trees and stones and animals as they are, really. The entire argument is a slippery slope based on what we MIGHT do. How does this make the depiction of animate things evil inherently?

Your argument is inherently flawed by the objective rules of logic. Mine is flawed based only on what MAY happen to SOME people.


People don't really worship inanimate objects because they DON'T have a soul. Animals are animate, that's why we don't depict them either. Humans are VERY likely to be lead astray; that's because we were created weak. It makes it evil because people don't worship things that aren't alive because people can't assign power to them (even when people do worship inanimate objects they assign them a soul which is the same as personifying/animating them which is what we're avoiding overall). It's evil to worship anything besides the One & Only God because He is the only One that is Praiseworthy.
It's all about being reasonable, logical, & knowledgeable. That doesn't mean ignore feelings because when you consider something to be right in all those aspects, they feel to be the truth. How could that be flawed? You're trying to find weakness in my argument, but your counterpoint hasn't proved anything nor has it disproved what I've said. Go ahead & say what you will, but proof is always necessary.


What? Seriously?

You're ASSUMING that people will worship drawings and animals. If animals are not inherently evil because people MAY worship them, then neither are drawings. Seriously.


What she is trying to say is that drawings of humans and animals are consider haraam (forbidden), because those drawings don't have souls. In Islam, drawing a human or an animal or any living object is like trying to copy the creation of Allah, and no one can come close to God, Allah. If you can't give it a soul, then it is not your business to try and create something similar to His creation. Now, drawing and creating art itself is not Haraam, only if they're human or animals. This is why in the Quran you'll see geometrical art and calligraphy rather then pictures of Jesus or The Virgin Mary in the Bible. And besides, none of us were around that time period anyway.. so why falsely create an image of someone or something?


Abu Hurairah (RA) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"Allah said: "’Who would be more unjust than the one who tries to create the like of my creatures? Let them create an atom, or let them create a grain or let them create a barley corn.’" (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

They also reported from Aisha (RA) that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allah’s creation."

Also reported by them from Ibn Abbas (RA) that I heard Allah’s Messenger (SAW) saying:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is additionally narrated from Ibn Abbas (RA) in a Marfu’ Hadith:

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

Muslim reports from Abu Haiyaj (Al-Asadi) that Ali (RA) said to him:

"Should I not despute you on a mission on which I was sent by Allah’s Messenger (SAW)?: Deface all the pictures which you come across and demolish all the high graves to the level of earth."

The Ruling Concerning Picture Making

Picture making is to make a representation of a living, willing, moving animal, such as a human, horse, animal and so forth. The ruling concerning that is that such representation or depiction is forbidden. The evidence for that is what is found in numerous Hadith. In Sahih, Al-Bukhari and Muslim, it is recorded from Ibn Masud that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people with the severest punishment on the Day of Judgment are the picture makers."

Ibn Umar (RA) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people who make these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection.

It will be said to them, ‘Give life to what you have created.’"

This was also recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim. Muslim also recorded from Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said,

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

It is recorded by Muslim on the authority of Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is also recorded on the authority of Abu Talha from the Prophet (SAW) who said,

"The angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or statues." (Muslim)

These Hadith and others are general for every kind of representation, whether it has a shadow, like a figure, or if it does not have a shadow, which is like a drawing on a wall, paper, clothing and so forth. It is confirmed that the Prophet (SAW) entered the Ka’bah and it contained pictures and he asked for a pitcher of water and he began to efface them, saying,

"May Allah destroy those who make pictures of what they do not create." (Confirmed and Recorded by Al-Tayalisi and Dhiya al-Maqdisi)

An exception to this ruling during this time is money containing the picture of kings as well as passports and identification cards. Due to the need and necessity of these items, it is allowed to carry them according to need. And Allah (SWT) knows best. -Shaikh Ibn Jibreen
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:00 pm


Bharatiyaa_ larki
Artto
Bharatiyaa_ larki
but what you are doing is wrong


Why? Because it somehow offends you? That doesn't make it wrong.


But any generous person with compassion would not want to hurt another person.. whether it is with pictures, or guns, etc.


If I'm going to try and not offend anyone ever again, then I better just shut up and not express my opinions any more.

Artto


Bharatiyaa_ larki

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:08 am


Artto
Bharatiyaa_ larki
Artto
Bharatiyaa_ larki
but what you are doing is wrong


Why? Because it somehow offends you? That doesn't make it wrong.


But any generous person with compassion would not want to hurt another person.. whether it is with pictures, or guns, etc.


If I'm going to try and not offend anyone ever again, then I better just shut up and not express my opinions any more.


I'm not saying not to express your opinions, but be mindful of other people's feelings.. it's called respect
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:15 am


Bharatiyaa_ larki
I'm not saying not to express your opinions, but be mindful of other people's feelings.. it's called respect


I can't respect something that I think is stupid. And I don't think anyone could/should respect something that they find stupid. Politely shutting up hinders debate and criticism, even if the criticism is in form of ridicule. And I don't mind anyone making fun of me or my beliefs.

The whole issue here is the reaction we got from the muslim world, when those famous caricatures were published. And the constant threats some muslims make when people don't follow their rules.

Do you see any Jews rioting because people eat shellfish? It's the same ******** thing.

Artto


Bharatiyaa_ larki

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:38 pm


Artto
Bharatiyaa_ larki
I'm not saying not to express your opinions, but be mindful of other people's feelings.. it's called respect


I can't respect something that I think is stupid. And I don't think anyone could/should respect something that they find stupid. Politely shutting up hinders debate and criticism, even if the criticism is in form of ridicule. And I don't mind anyone making fun of me or my beliefs.

The whole issue here is the reaction we got from the muslim world, when those famous caricatures were published. And the constant threats some muslims make when people don't follow their rules.

Do you see any Jews rioting because people eat shellfish? It's the same ******** thing.


It's not the same, because shellfish is not their prophet.. it's just a food.. and it's not that you can't respect Islam.. you don't want to respect Islam. You think I'm stupid? You just don't want to accept something that is different. I think Christianity is stupid, but I don't go around bashing the religion, because I understand the fact that it's still something that people believe in. I respect the religion. So, you bringing up the face that Jews aren't rioting because people are eating shellfish is NOT the same thing at all.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:01 pm


Bharatiyaa_ larki
divineseraph
Endure Error
divineseraph


If the problem is worshiping our own drawings and depictions, I've already confronted this. We could also worship trees and stones and animals as they are, really. The entire argument is a slippery slope based on what we MIGHT do. How does this make the depiction of animate things evil inherently?

Your argument is inherently flawed by the objective rules of logic. Mine is flawed based only on what MAY happen to SOME people.


People don't really worship inanimate objects because they DON'T have a soul. Animals are animate, that's why we don't depict them either. Humans are VERY likely to be lead astray; that's because we were created weak. It makes it evil because people don't worship things that aren't alive because people can't assign power to them (even when people do worship inanimate objects they assign them a soul which is the same as personifying/animating them which is what we're avoiding overall). It's evil to worship anything besides the One & Only God because He is the only One that is Praiseworthy.
It's all about being reasonable, logical, & knowledgeable. That doesn't mean ignore feelings because when you consider something to be right in all those aspects, they feel to be the truth. How could that be flawed? You're trying to find weakness in my argument, but your counterpoint hasn't proved anything nor has it disproved what I've said. Go ahead & say what you will, but proof is always necessary.


What? Seriously?

You're ASSUMING that people will worship drawings and animals. If animals are not inherently evil because people MAY worship them, then neither are drawings. Seriously.


What she is trying to say is that drawings of humans and animals are consider haraam (forbidden), because those drawings don't have souls. In Islam, drawing a human or an animal or any living object is like trying to copy the creation of Allah, and no one can come close to God, Allah. If you can't give it a soul, then it is not your business to try and create something similar to His creation. Now, drawing and creating art itself is not Haraam, only if they're human or animals. This is why in the Quran you'll see geometrical art and calligraphy rather then pictures of Jesus or The Virgin Mary in the Bible. And besides, none of us were around that time period anyway.. so why falsely create an image of someone or something?


Abu Hurairah (RA) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"Allah said: "’Who would be more unjust than the one who tries to create the like of my creatures? Let them create an atom, or let them create a grain or let them create a barley corn.’" (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

They also reported from Aisha (RA) that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allah’s creation."

Also reported by them from Ibn Abbas (RA) that I heard Allah’s Messenger (SAW) saying:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is additionally narrated from Ibn Abbas (RA) in a Marfu’ Hadith:

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

Muslim reports from Abu Haiyaj (Al-Asadi) that Ali (RA) said to him:

"Should I not despute you on a mission on which I was sent by Allah’s Messenger (SAW)?: Deface all the pictures which you come across and demolish all the high graves to the level of earth."

The Ruling Concerning Picture Making

Picture making is to make a representation of a living, willing, moving animal, such as a human, horse, animal and so forth. The ruling concerning that is that such representation or depiction is forbidden. The evidence for that is what is found in numerous Hadith. In Sahih, Al-Bukhari and Muslim, it is recorded from Ibn Masud that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people with the severest punishment on the Day of Judgment are the picture makers."

Ibn Umar (RA) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people who make these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection.

It will be said to them, ‘Give life to what you have created.’"

This was also recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim. Muslim also recorded from Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said,

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

It is recorded by Muslim on the authority of Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is also recorded on the authority of Abu Talha from the Prophet (SAW) who said,

"The angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or statues." (Muslim)

These Hadith and others are general for every kind of representation, whether it has a shadow, like a figure, or if it does not have a shadow, which is like a drawing on a wall, paper, clothing and so forth. It is confirmed that the Prophet (SAW) entered the Ka’bah and it contained pictures and he asked for a pitcher of water and he began to efface them, saying,

"May Allah destroy those who make pictures of what they do not create." (Confirmed and Recorded by Al-Tayalisi and Dhiya al-Maqdisi)

An exception to this ruling during this time is money containing the picture of kings as well as passports and identification cards. Due to the need and necessity of these items, it is allowed to carry them according to need. And Allah (SWT) knows best. -Shaikh Ibn Jibreen

First off, I am an artist, and usually when I make something I try to depict it as real as I can. I know I can't compare to God, but that's not the point-the point for me is to try to make something that is beautiful and expresses something about me. The rule applies whether I'm drawing a portrait or writing a poem or a story. To me, outlawing drawing an animal or human is like saying you can't sing a song about a person, or write an autobiography. I understand it's where your religion is coming from, but I am gonna say it seems stupid to me.

I mean, Islam has roots in Judaism, right? Well, in Exodus God has them craft an Ark with angels on top of it. I really doubt He has a problem with lifeforms being depicted in art, so long as they don't become an idol like the Golden Calf.

xxEverBluexx

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Bharatiyaa_ larki

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:10 pm


xxEternallyBluexx
Bharatiyaa_ larki
divineseraph
Endure Error
divineseraph


If the problem is worshiping our own drawings and depictions, I've already confronted this. We could also worship trees and stones and animals as they are, really. The entire argument is a slippery slope based on what we MIGHT do. How does this make the depiction of animate things evil inherently?

Your argument is inherently flawed by the objective rules of logic. Mine is flawed based only on what MAY happen to SOME people.


People don't really worship inanimate objects because they DON'T have a soul. Animals are animate, that's why we don't depict them either. Humans are VERY likely to be lead astray; that's because we were created weak. It makes it evil because people don't worship things that aren't alive because people can't assign power to them (even when people do worship inanimate objects they assign them a soul which is the same as personifying/animating them which is what we're avoiding overall). It's evil to worship anything besides the One & Only God because He is the only One that is Praiseworthy.
It's all about being reasonable, logical, & knowledgeable. That doesn't mean ignore feelings because when you consider something to be right in all those aspects, they feel to be the truth. How could that be flawed? You're trying to find weakness in my argument, but your counterpoint hasn't proved anything nor has it disproved what I've said. Go ahead & say what you will, but proof is always necessary.


What? Seriously?

You're ASSUMING that people will worship drawings and animals. If animals are not inherently evil because people MAY worship them, then neither are drawings. Seriously.


What she is trying to say is that drawings of humans and animals are consider haraam (forbidden), because those drawings don't have souls. In Islam, drawing a human or an animal or any living object is like trying to copy the creation of Allah, and no one can come close to God, Allah. If you can't give it a soul, then it is not your business to try and create something similar to His creation. Now, drawing and creating art itself is not Haraam, only if they're human or animals. This is why in the Quran you'll see geometrical art and calligraphy rather then pictures of Jesus or The Virgin Mary in the Bible. And besides, none of us were around that time period anyway.. so why falsely create an image of someone or something?


Abu Hurairah (RA) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"Allah said: "’Who would be more unjust than the one who tries to create the like of my creatures? Let them create an atom, or let them create a grain or let them create a barley corn.’" (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

They also reported from Aisha (RA) that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allah’s creation."

Also reported by them from Ibn Abbas (RA) that I heard Allah’s Messenger (SAW) saying:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is additionally narrated from Ibn Abbas (RA) in a Marfu’ Hadith:

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

Muslim reports from Abu Haiyaj (Al-Asadi) that Ali (RA) said to him:

"Should I not despute you on a mission on which I was sent by Allah’s Messenger (SAW)?: Deface all the pictures which you come across and demolish all the high graves to the level of earth."

The Ruling Concerning Picture Making

Picture making is to make a representation of a living, willing, moving animal, such as a human, horse, animal and so forth. The ruling concerning that is that such representation or depiction is forbidden. The evidence for that is what is found in numerous Hadith. In Sahih, Al-Bukhari and Muslim, it is recorded from Ibn Masud that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people with the severest punishment on the Day of Judgment are the picture makers."

Ibn Umar (RA) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people who make these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection.

It will be said to them, ‘Give life to what you have created.’"

This was also recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim. Muslim also recorded from Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said,

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

It is recorded by Muslim on the authority of Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is also recorded on the authority of Abu Talha from the Prophet (SAW) who said,

"The angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or statues." (Muslim)

These Hadith and others are general for every kind of representation, whether it has a shadow, like a figure, or if it does not have a shadow, which is like a drawing on a wall, paper, clothing and so forth. It is confirmed that the Prophet (SAW) entered the Ka’bah and it contained pictures and he asked for a pitcher of water and he began to efface them, saying,

"May Allah destroy those who make pictures of what they do not create." (Confirmed and Recorded by Al-Tayalisi and Dhiya al-Maqdisi)

An exception to this ruling during this time is money containing the picture of kings as well as passports and identification cards. Due to the need and necessity of these items, it is allowed to carry them according to need. And Allah (SWT) knows best. -Shaikh Ibn Jibreen

First off, I am an artist, and usually when I make something I try to depict it as real as I can. I know I can't compare to God, but that's not the point-the point for me is to try to make something that is beautiful and expresses something about me. The rule applies whether I'm drawing a portrait or writing a poem or a story. To me, outlawing drawing an animal or human is like saying you can't sing a song about a person, or write an autobiography. I understand it's where your religion is coming from, but I am gonna say it seems stupid to me.

I mean, Islam has roots in Judaism, right? Well, in Exodus God has them craft an Ark with angels on top of it. I really doubt He has a problem with lifeforms being depicted in art, so long as they don't become an idol like the Golden Calf.


I too am an artist, but I don't draw pictures of people or animals. And yes, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are similar, but they are also very different. You know what, I don't care ... If you want to continue to draw pictures of animals and humans go ahead. Who am I to tell you what to do, we are both only human. I'll leave the judging to Allah.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:08 pm


Bharatiyaa_ larki
xxEternallyBluexx
Bharatiyaa_ larki
divineseraph
Endure Error
divineseraph


If the problem is worshiping our own drawings and depictions, I've already confronted this. We could also worship trees and stones and animals as they are, really. The entire argument is a slippery slope based on what we MIGHT do. How does this make the depiction of animate things evil inherently?

Your argument is inherently flawed by the objective rules of logic. Mine is flawed based only on what MAY happen to SOME people.


People don't really worship inanimate objects because they DON'T have a soul. Animals are animate, that's why we don't depict them either. Humans are VERY likely to be lead astray; that's because we were created weak. It makes it evil because people don't worship things that aren't alive because people can't assign power to them (even when people do worship inanimate objects they assign them a soul which is the same as personifying/animating them which is what we're avoiding overall). It's evil to worship anything besides the One & Only God because He is the only One that is Praiseworthy.
It's all about being reasonable, logical, & knowledgeable. That doesn't mean ignore feelings because when you consider something to be right in all those aspects, they feel to be the truth. How could that be flawed? You're trying to find weakness in my argument, but your counterpoint hasn't proved anything nor has it disproved what I've said. Go ahead & say what you will, but proof is always necessary.


What? Seriously?

You're ASSUMING that people will worship drawings and animals. If animals are not inherently evil because people MAY worship them, then neither are drawings. Seriously.


What she is trying to say is that drawings of humans and animals are consider haraam (forbidden), because those drawings don't have souls. In Islam, drawing a human or an animal or any living object is like trying to copy the creation of Allah, and no one can come close to God, Allah. If you can't give it a soul, then it is not your business to try and create something similar to His creation. Now, drawing and creating art itself is not Haraam, only if they're human or animals. This is why in the Quran you'll see geometrical art and calligraphy rather then pictures of Jesus or The Virgin Mary in the Bible. And besides, none of us were around that time period anyway.. so why falsely create an image of someone or something?


Abu Hurairah (RA) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"Allah said: "’Who would be more unjust than the one who tries to create the like of my creatures? Let them create an atom, or let them create a grain or let them create a barley corn.’" (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

They also reported from Aisha (RA) that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allah’s creation."

Also reported by them from Ibn Abbas (RA) that I heard Allah’s Messenger (SAW) saying:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is additionally narrated from Ibn Abbas (RA) in a Marfu’ Hadith:

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

Muslim reports from Abu Haiyaj (Al-Asadi) that Ali (RA) said to him:

"Should I not despute you on a mission on which I was sent by Allah’s Messenger (SAW)?: Deface all the pictures which you come across and demolish all the high graves to the level of earth."

The Ruling Concerning Picture Making

Picture making is to make a representation of a living, willing, moving animal, such as a human, horse, animal and so forth. The ruling concerning that is that such representation or depiction is forbidden. The evidence for that is what is found in numerous Hadith. In Sahih, Al-Bukhari and Muslim, it is recorded from Ibn Masud that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people with the severest punishment on the Day of Judgment are the picture makers."

Ibn Umar (RA) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people who make these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection.

It will be said to them, ‘Give life to what you have created.’"

This was also recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim. Muslim also recorded from Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said,

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

It is recorded by Muslim on the authority of Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is also recorded on the authority of Abu Talha from the Prophet (SAW) who said,

"The angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or statues." (Muslim)

These Hadith and others are general for every kind of representation, whether it has a shadow, like a figure, or if it does not have a shadow, which is like a drawing on a wall, paper, clothing and so forth. It is confirmed that the Prophet (SAW) entered the Ka’bah and it contained pictures and he asked for a pitcher of water and he began to efface them, saying,

"May Allah destroy those who make pictures of what they do not create." (Confirmed and Recorded by Al-Tayalisi and Dhiya al-Maqdisi)

An exception to this ruling during this time is money containing the picture of kings as well as passports and identification cards. Due to the need and necessity of these items, it is allowed to carry them according to need. And Allah (SWT) knows best. -Shaikh Ibn Jibreen

First off, I am an artist, and usually when I make something I try to depict it as real as I can. I know I can't compare to God, but that's not the point-the point for me is to try to make something that is beautiful and expresses something about me. The rule applies whether I'm drawing a portrait or writing a poem or a story. To me, outlawing drawing an animal or human is like saying you can't sing a song about a person, or write an autobiography. I understand it's where your religion is coming from, but I am gonna say it seems stupid to me.

I mean, Islam has roots in Judaism, right? Well, in Exodus God has them craft an Ark with angels on top of it. I really doubt He has a problem with lifeforms being depicted in art, so long as they don't become an idol like the Golden Calf.


I too am an artist, but I don't draw pictures of people or animals. And yes, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are similar, but they are also very different. You know what, I don't care ... If you want to continue to draw pictures of animals and humans go ahead. Who am I to tell you what to do, we are both only human. I'll leave the judging to Allah.

I know they're very different, but something should carry through. You can't say you worship the same God when nothing in the religion stays the same.

And I will continue to draw pictures of humans and animals, just as I would write of them and sing of them. I am not a Muslim, and I have no reason to follow any of your laws unless they agree with the laws of the Bible.

xxEverBluexx

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Bharatiyaa_ larki

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:50 pm


xxEternallyBluexx
Bharatiyaa_ larki
xxEternallyBluexx
Bharatiyaa_ larki
divineseraph


What? Seriously?

You're ASSUMING that people will worship drawings and animals. If animals are not inherently evil because people MAY worship them, then neither are drawings. Seriously.


What she is trying to say is that drawings of humans and animals are consider haraam (forbidden), because those drawings don't have souls. In Islam, drawing a human or an animal or any living object is like trying to copy the creation of Allah, and no one can come close to God, Allah. If you can't give it a soul, then it is not your business to try and create something similar to His creation. Now, drawing and creating art itself is not Haraam, only if they're human or animals. This is why in the Quran you'll see geometrical art and calligraphy rather then pictures of Jesus or The Virgin Mary in the Bible. And besides, none of us were around that time period anyway.. so why falsely create an image of someone or something?


Abu Hurairah (RA) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"Allah said: "’Who would be more unjust than the one who tries to create the like of my creatures? Let them create an atom, or let them create a grain or let them create a barley corn.’" (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

They also reported from Aisha (RA) that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allah’s creation."

Also reported by them from Ibn Abbas (RA) that I heard Allah’s Messenger (SAW) saying:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is additionally narrated from Ibn Abbas (RA) in a Marfu’ Hadith:

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

Muslim reports from Abu Haiyaj (Al-Asadi) that Ali (RA) said to him:

"Should I not despute you on a mission on which I was sent by Allah’s Messenger (SAW)?: Deface all the pictures which you come across and demolish all the high graves to the level of earth."

The Ruling Concerning Picture Making

Picture making is to make a representation of a living, willing, moving animal, such as a human, horse, animal and so forth. The ruling concerning that is that such representation or depiction is forbidden. The evidence for that is what is found in numerous Hadith. In Sahih, Al-Bukhari and Muslim, it is recorded from Ibn Masud that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people with the severest punishment on the Day of Judgment are the picture makers."

Ibn Umar (RA) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people who make these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection.

It will be said to them, ‘Give life to what you have created.’"

This was also recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim. Muslim also recorded from Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said,

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

It is recorded by Muslim on the authority of Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is also recorded on the authority of Abu Talha from the Prophet (SAW) who said,

"The angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or statues." (Muslim)

These Hadith and others are general for every kind of representation, whether it has a shadow, like a figure, or if it does not have a shadow, which is like a drawing on a wall, paper, clothing and so forth. It is confirmed that the Prophet (SAW) entered the Ka’bah and it contained pictures and he asked for a pitcher of water and he began to efface them, saying,

"May Allah destroy those who make pictures of what they do not create." (Confirmed and Recorded by Al-Tayalisi and Dhiya al-Maqdisi)

An exception to this ruling during this time is money containing the picture of kings as well as passports and identification cards. Due to the need and necessity of these items, it is allowed to carry them according to need. And Allah (SWT) knows best. -Shaikh Ibn Jibreen

First off, I am an artist, and usually when I make something I try to depict it as real as I can. I know I can't compare to God, but that's not the point-the point for me is to try to make something that is beautiful and expresses something about me. The rule applies whether I'm drawing a portrait or writing a poem or a story. To me, outlawing drawing an animal or human is like saying you can't sing a song about a person, or write an autobiography. I understand it's where your religion is coming from, but I am gonna say it seems stupid to me.

I mean, Islam has roots in Judaism, right? Well, in Exodus God has them craft an Ark with angels on top of it. I really doubt He has a problem with lifeforms being depicted in art, so long as they don't become an idol like the Golden Calf.


I too am an artist, but I don't draw pictures of people or animals. And yes, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are similar, but they are also very different. You know what, I don't care ... If you want to continue to draw pictures of animals and humans go ahead. Who am I to tell you what to do, we are both only human. I'll leave the judging to Allah.

I know they're very different, but something should carry through. You can't say you worship the same God when nothing in the religion stays the same.

And I will continue to draw pictures of humans and animals, just as I would write of them and sing of them. I am not a Muslim, and I have no reason to follow any of your laws unless they agree with the laws of the Bible.


I JUST said that they are similar *face palms* and ok, your will, you wanna keep drawing pictures go ahead.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:20 pm


Bharatiyaa_ larki
xxEternallyBluexx
Bharatiyaa_ larki
xxEternallyBluexx
Bharatiyaa_ larki
divineseraph


What? Seriously?

You're ASSUMING that people will worship drawings and animals. If animals are not inherently evil because people MAY worship them, then neither are drawings. Seriously.


What she is trying to say is that drawings of humans and animals are consider haraam (forbidden), because those drawings don't have souls. In Islam, drawing a human or an animal or any living object is like trying to copy the creation of Allah, and no one can come close to God, Allah. If you can't give it a soul, then it is not your business to try and create something similar to His creation. Now, drawing and creating art itself is not Haraam, only if they're human or animals. This is why in the Quran you'll see geometrical art and calligraphy rather then pictures of Jesus or The Virgin Mary in the Bible. And besides, none of us were around that time period anyway.. so why falsely create an image of someone or something?


Abu Hurairah (RA) narrated that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"Allah said: "’Who would be more unjust than the one who tries to create the like of my creatures? Let them create an atom, or let them create a grain or let them create a barley corn.’" (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

They also reported from Aisha (RA) that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:

"The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allah’s creation."

Also reported by them from Ibn Abbas (RA) that I heard Allah’s Messenger (SAW) saying:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is additionally narrated from Ibn Abbas (RA) in a Marfu’ Hadith:

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

Muslim reports from Abu Haiyaj (Al-Asadi) that Ali (RA) said to him:

"Should I not despute you on a mission on which I was sent by Allah’s Messenger (SAW)?: Deface all the pictures which you come across and demolish all the high graves to the level of earth."

The Ruling Concerning Picture Making

Picture making is to make a representation of a living, willing, moving animal, such as a human, horse, animal and so forth. The ruling concerning that is that such representation or depiction is forbidden. The evidence for that is what is found in numerous Hadith. In Sahih, Al-Bukhari and Muslim, it is recorded from Ibn Masud that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people with the severest punishment on the Day of Judgment are the picture makers."

Ibn Umar (RA) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said,

"The people who make these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection.

It will be said to them, ‘Give life to what you have created.’"

This was also recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim. Muslim also recorded from Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said,

"Whoever makes a picture in this world will be charged with putting a soul (life) in it and he will never be able to do it."

It is recorded by Muslim on the authority of Ibn Abbas (RA) that the Prophet (SAW) said:

"All the picture makers would be in the fire of Hell. A soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell."

It is also recorded on the authority of Abu Talha from the Prophet (SAW) who said,

"The angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or statues." (Muslim)

These Hadith and others are general for every kind of representation, whether it has a shadow, like a figure, or if it does not have a shadow, which is like a drawing on a wall, paper, clothing and so forth. It is confirmed that the Prophet (SAW) entered the Ka’bah and it contained pictures and he asked for a pitcher of water and he began to efface them, saying,

"May Allah destroy those who make pictures of what they do not create." (Confirmed and Recorded by Al-Tayalisi and Dhiya al-Maqdisi)

An exception to this ruling during this time is money containing the picture of kings as well as passports and identification cards. Due to the need and necessity of these items, it is allowed to carry them according to need. And Allah (SWT) knows best. -Shaikh Ibn Jibreen

First off, I am an artist, and usually when I make something I try to depict it as real as I can. I know I can't compare to God, but that's not the point-the point for me is to try to make something that is beautiful and expresses something about me. The rule applies whether I'm drawing a portrait or writing a poem or a story. To me, outlawing drawing an animal or human is like saying you can't sing a song about a person, or write an autobiography. I understand it's where your religion is coming from, but I am gonna say it seems stupid to me.

I mean, Islam has roots in Judaism, right? Well, in Exodus God has them craft an Ark with angels on top of it. I really doubt He has a problem with lifeforms being depicted in art, so long as they don't become an idol like the Golden Calf.


I too am an artist, but I don't draw pictures of people or animals. And yes, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are similar, but they are also very different. You know what, I don't care ... If you want to continue to draw pictures of animals and humans go ahead. Who am I to tell you what to do, we are both only human. I'll leave the judging to Allah.

I know they're very different, but something should carry through. You can't say you worship the same God when nothing in the religion stays the same.

And I will continue to draw pictures of humans and animals, just as I would write of them and sing of them. I am not a Muslim, and I have no reason to follow any of your laws unless they agree with the laws of the Bible.


I JUST said that they are similar *face palms* and ok, your will, you wanna keep drawing pictures go ahead.

My point is the rules don't seem to carry through, though they should if they're the same religion. And we've already established that I would keep drawing what God doesn't outlaw, so what are we arguing about? I'm starting to wonder if we've just gone back and forth because we don't like each other's religions. XD

xxEverBluexx

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Bharatiyaa_ larki

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:25 pm


xxEternallyBluexx
Bharatiyaa_ larki
xxEternallyBluexx
Bharatiyaa_ larki
xxEternallyBluexx

First off, I am an artist, and usually when I make something I try to depict it as real as I can. I know I can't compare to God, but that's not the point-the point for me is to try to make something that is beautiful and expresses something about me. The rule applies whether I'm drawing a portrait or writing a poem or a story. To me, outlawing drawing an animal or human is like saying you can't sing a song about a person, or write an autobiography. I understand it's where your religion is coming from, but I am gonna say it seems stupid to me.

I mean, Islam has roots in Judaism, right? Well, in Exodus God has them craft an Ark with angels on top of it. I really doubt He has a problem with lifeforms being depicted in art, so long as they don't become an idol like the Golden Calf.


I too am an artist, but I don't draw pictures of people or animals. And yes, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are similar, but they are also very different. You know what, I don't care ... If you want to continue to draw pictures of animals and humans go ahead. Who am I to tell you what to do, we are both only human. I'll leave the judging to Allah.

I know they're very different, but something should carry through. You can't say you worship the same God when nothing in the religion stays the same.

And I will continue to draw pictures of humans and animals, just as I would write of them and sing of them. I am not a Muslim, and I have no reason to follow any of your laws unless they agree with the laws of the Bible.


I JUST said that they are similar *face palms* and ok, your will, you wanna keep drawing pictures go ahead.

My point is the rules don't seem to carry through, though they should if they're the same religion. And we've already established that I would keep drawing what God doesn't outlaw, so what are we arguing about? I'm starting to wonder if we've just gone back and forth because we don't like each other's religions. XD


They're NOT the same religion, they're similar.. but NOT the same..
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