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 Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:12 pm
LordNeuf Behatzlacha-S You see, the thing is, Divash, is that I've just lived between 15-20 (internet safety right there!) years of my life calling myself a Jew, believing it all, praying to Hashem, trying to stay kosher when possible, going to shul... and now I feel like that's been ripped from me and I don't have a religion any more. I have faith, sure. I still believe. But suddenly I've realised that even my own dad doesn't think I'm Jewish. Now, instead of being the full thing, I'm B'nei Noach? Was my soul even at Mount Sinai?? Am I meant to be a Jew, or is this a big wake up call?? Pardon me French, but what the f*ck am I? One of us as far as I'm concerned. On that note, if anyone declares themselves a follower and a believer of HASHEM, G-D of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Anyone who hears the call to prayer and answers the call, Anyone who calls out the Shema as an act of devotion, Anyone who keep the traditions and intends to teach it to their children, Are as Jewish as I am. ARE SO MUCH MORE JEWISH THAN I AMBecause I know LOTS of Jews who do not, yet they are still Jews. And if that's wrong, then I don't want to be right. So I can QFT it.
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:55 pm
kingpinsqeezels I don't think Neuf is trying to say that a non-practicing Jew isn't Jewish to him. But consider those who can call themselves Jewish because their mother was while still only doing the bare minimum (and sometimes following another religion completely). At the same time, however, their are goyim who fully comprehend and practice Jewish Law but can't be considered Jewish just because their mother wasn't. I see where Neuf is coming from. Behatz, I think you know deep down exactly where you stand religiously, especially if you've been wanting to be a Jew your whole life. Don't let your father's hurtful words hinder your faith and spirituality. QFT again.
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:01 pm
ScionoftheBlade In Medias Res IV ScionoftheBlade LordNeuf See the real issue is I want to raise my kids Jewish and there's a very good chance I am not going to marry Jewish. I don't want anyone telling my kids they're "mud-blood Jews" because their mom wasn't part of the tribe while they were in Hebrew School. It's hard enough to be Jewish without someone telling you you're not Jewish enough to go to Yeshiva. It's wonderful that you want to raise your kids jewish, but honestly the mudblood concept is somewhat insulting. You say you want to raise them jewish yet you are removing a major aspect of Judaism before your starting. There is exactly one prerequisite to being born jewish, a jewish mother. Not all Jews agree with you. Aren't you the kid who thought that Judaism is Jewdiasm? How the hell is my mother not being Jewish removing a major aspect of Judaism? Are you forgetting that the whole bloodline through the mother aspect of Judaism is actually quite recent? Yes my flaw in spelling a word in English is clearly an example of how little I know. The mother thing isn't recent. It's as old as Sinai and according to Ramban and many other Mifarshim the a portion of the debate between Joshua and his brothers. (Rashba holds as old a Avraham, ergo Avrahams children when he remarried hagar were not any more jewish the esav or Yishmael. Although this is a complicated opinion, its easier to simply understand since sinai)
Fact: During the Babylonian Exile, THOUSANDS OF YEARS AFTER SINAI, Jewish men started marrying, well, shiksas. It was okay because Jewwishness was PATRILINEAL. Their children were still more or less assimilated Jewish, but it still left the Jewish women in a bad position, having to marry gentile men and have gentile children. This was a problem.
To fix this and encourage marrying Jewish women, the formerly patrilineal system turned matrilineal.
If they hadn't changed it, from a Jewish perspective I would be SCREWED.
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:13 pm
And Kingpin, the weird thing is that I've considered myself Jewish from birth, but that just got ripped away from me. I just... I can't call myself a Gentile. It's not who I am. My whole life, I've been a Jew. How the hell can I suddenly be anything else, even a convert??
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:16 pm
Behatzlacha-S And Kingpin, the weird thing is that I've considered myself Jewish from birth, but that just got ripped away from me. I just... I can't call myself a Gentile. It's not who I am. My whole life, I've been a Jew. How the hell can I suddenly be anything else, even a convert?? Remember, it's forbidden to ask someone if they're a convert. I hope you got my PM heart
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:21 pm
Behatzlacha-S And Kingpin, the weird thing is that I've considered myself Jewish from birth, but that just got ripped away from me. I just... I can't call myself a Gentile. It's not who I am. My whole life, I've been a Jew. How the hell can I suddenly be anything else, even a convert?? I'm sorry, why are you suddenly not a Jew? Didn't you say you were last week? And all those months before then when I met you last December? Is it because of this discussion?
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:25 pm
Yeah, I got your PM, IMR. Thanks for the kind words. Lumanny the Space Jew I'm sorry, why are you suddenly not a Jew? Didn't you say you were last week? And all those months before then when I met you last December? Is it because of this discussion? This is because I found out the whole: "Oh, don't worry, you don't really need a Jewish mother to be Jewish" line I've been feeding myself since I could talk just fell flat on my face when my own father told me he didn't think I was a Jew.
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:26 pm
kingpinsqeezels Neuf I have to ask, but please don't take this wrong. Why is it that you care enough to raise your children Jewish but not enough to find a Jewish girl? Most people, while tolerant at heart, start to get iffy when it comes to their children and religion. I'm not saying you couldn't find a girl who could care less if your children were Jewish or Pagan, I just don't want you to be surprised if there are a few rifts involved. Ya don't really pick who you fall in love with. It just happened and well... I'm not gonna break her heart because of what other people think of the kids we may or may not have.
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:32 pm
There, after several edits and one redaction. I don't have to lock the thread anymore. Remember kids 
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Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:26 am
LordNeuf kingpinsqeezels Neuf I have to ask, but please don't take this wrong. Why is it that you care enough to raise your children Jewish but not enough to find a Jewish girl? Most people, while tolerant at heart, start to get iffy when it comes to their children and religion. I'm not saying you couldn't find a girl who could care less if your children were Jewish or Pagan, I just don't want you to be surprised if there are a few rifts involved. Ya don't really pick who you fall in love with. It just happened and well... I'm not gonna break her heart because of what other people think of the kids we may or may not have. He's right. I mean, I'm currently a Ravak myself, but when you love a gentile girl, you love a gentile girl. If I were to really, truly fall in love with one, I'd definately marry her and have kids.
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Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:27 am
LordNeuf There, after several edits and one redaction. I don't have to lock the thread anymore. Remember kids But Scion said far worse things, they just didn't involve explatives.
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Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:46 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew But Scion said far worse things, they just didn't involve explatives. Not to my learned eye he didn't. He had a disagreement with IMR, that's all. He's allowed to disagree and stand by his opinions.
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:25 pm
LordNeuf kingpinsqeezels Neuf I have to ask, but please don't take this wrong. Why is it that you care enough to raise your children Jewish but not enough to find a Jewish girl? Most people, while tolerant at heart, start to get iffy when it comes to their children and religion. I'm not saying you couldn't find a girl who could care less if your children were Jewish or Pagan, I just don't want you to be surprised if there are a few rifts involved. Ya don't really pick who you fall in love with. It just happened and well... I'm not gonna break her heart because of what other people think of the kids we may or may not have. No, I understand that. smile
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:07 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew During the Babylonian Exile, THOUSANDS OF YEARS AFTER SINAI, Jewish men started marrying, well, shiksas. The word "shiksa" is the feminine form of "sheygetz," and both translate to "insect." It's not the nicest thing to call someone who isn't Jewish. I know that you'd never say this if you knew what it meant, because you are a really great person who wouldn't knowingly hurt someone. So now you know what it means. Behatzlacha-S: If you've felt Jewish your whole life, and want to be Jewish still, speak to your rav about your options. Not one of us here -- no matter how much we like you, no matter how much we try to help -- can give you any concrete assistance. Your rav can. Figure out what you really and truly want, and then go get it! Don't let anyone, anything, any force, keep you away from that which your soul desires, whatever that may be.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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