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 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:44 pm
I read a series on Wicca and read about the difficulty between Christianity and Wicca and found it very sad. I mean I got what people are trying to get at when they say to not do it anymore because they are only worried about you and have only experinced christianity or whatever their religion is and they're scared. They only care about you, but those people just need to learn to accept that it's a religion that they choose and you are the only one that can choose what religion you practice. Nobody can really force someone to practice this one religion.
Even though I'm christian I still accept people no matter what religion they practice. I find that the real friendships are the ones where they aren't based on religion but on how you treat each other. If I found out that a friend was a wiccan then I would deal with it and not judge them on that. People just need to understand that Wicca isn't a horrible religion like everyone thinks. From what I've read and what I believe is that Wicca is very a very peaceful religion.
But I do have a question though. Is it true that whatever you send out to the universe, comes back to you threefold?
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:40 pm
Time for me to make some comments Quote: Morgandria's Info-Dump Wicca is:an Orthopraxic, Oathbound, Initiatory, Mystery-based, Experiential, Coven-based, Fertility-focused, Dithesitic Witch-cult whose members are all Clergy within a Lineaged Tradition. A mouthful, if there every was one! Let's break it down farther into individual components. Orthopraxic:There are two kinds of religion. One is orthodoxic - meaning 'correct belief'. If you believe the right things, you qualify as a member of that faith. The second is orthopraxic - literally, this is 'right practice'. If you know the right way to do things within that faith, and you do them, you're a member of that faith. Wicca is Orthopraxic. What allows a person to qualify as Wiccan is knowing the correct practices: how to use the tools, hw to properly cast and consecrate a circle, how to invoke Deity, etc. If you change any of this orthopraxy far enough from its' core, then it ceases to be Wicca. Only initiated Wiccans will know this proper practice, because.... Oathbound:
...Wicca is oathbound.
What this means is every person who has become a Wiccan, in the proper way, has sworn an oath never to reveal the orthopraxy of Wicca unless that other person is 'a proper person, properly prepared.' This means, in essence, that a coven will only teach the orthopraxy to those who have been 'properly prepared', ie. have become an initiate, and have sworn the very same oath.
This oath is fearsome. It is not undertaken lightly, and those who break it are cast out and reviled, for good reason. Because of this, even people who choose to leave Wicca, are still expected to uphold this oath.
The oath also means you may not publish Wiccan practices in books, or other media, where it would be viewed by non-initiates.
No book at the bookstore, no website online, has ever had a single scrap of actual Wiccan material.
What you generally see are generic pagan teachings, with a vague Wiccan flavour - we call it 'outer court'. Outer-court teachings vary from coven to coven, but they're the basic info taught to a Seeker as a foundation to learn Wicca on after initiation. It isn't and shouldn't be considered Wicca in and of itself - but it is still useful.
Why do people publish things in the name of Wicca, when it isn't? Simple: money. People want Wicca, so they give them what they want. 9 times out of 10 those people are in no position to realize they've been misinformed or misled.
Initiation, Mystery-based, and Experiential:
We'll tackle these three together.
Initiation is VERY important in Wicca. Without this event - without experiencing this ritual - you'll never fully understand Wicca, even if you were to somehow gain access to Wiccan material without being an initiate. Without initiation, you have no access to the Mysteries.
Mystery-based paths have existed for thousands of years. A Mystery is just an experience that changes your perception and understanding of events and objects and energies - and there are plenty out there that are easily available to everyone. A Mystery is always the same event: what varies is how an individual experiences them. Even experiencing a sunset will be a different Mystery every time, depending on environmental conditions, season, location, and the person themselves.
Some Mysteries, however, are shaped and built around specific events, to build a consistent framework for the experience - historically, the Eleunesian Mysteries come to mind. The Wiccan Mysteries are the same way. The ritual, done properly, by people qualified to perform it, builds this framework. Each initiate will have a slightly different experience - but the Mysteries themselves are the same, inside that framework. Obviously, if you change the framework, you will access Mysteries, but they will not be the Wiccan Mysteries.
Without experiecing the Wiccan Mysteries properly, you will always lack the proper context to understand the orthopraxy of Wicca. It's why you can't be a Wiccan alone, you can't teach yourself, and you can't learn it from a book or online. Without that initiatory experience of the proper Mysteries, you're lacking a key that will allow you to unlock the meaning and understanding of the rituals practiced by Wiccans.
Initiation is always practiced cross-gender. A woman is initiated by a man, and a man by a woman. If you run across someone who says they were initiated by someone of the same sex as them, it was not a valid Wiccan initiation.
Coven-based:
One can't be a Wiccan alone. Aside from the fact that one can't self-initiate...
The rites of Wicca, recorded in the Book of Shadows each coven keeps a hand-copied version of, basically define what Wicca is. These rites were never meant to be practiced alone. They're based on having a full coven of initiates to perform properly.
Solitary Wiccans really don't exist. You can have initiated Wiccans who are unable to practice with their covens: they moved, they're away, they got sick, etc. But what they do on their own is neo-pagan witchcraft, heavily flavoured by Wicca, performed by a Wiccan - it's not proper Wiccan practice.
And finding an actual, lineaged coven (we'll talk about lineage later) can be a lot of work - travel, time, money, energy. And those sacrifices to attend a group are expected. It's considered normal. People who complain about not finding a coven in their area so they can learn properly, are typically looked at with some disdain, especially by those Wiccans who travel considerable lengths to their own covens.
Fertility-focused:
Wicca is a fertility cult. It's not a Nature cult, or an 'earth-based' path. We don't worship Nature. We honour fertility! Fertility is one specific aspect of Nature; so while we may see and appreciate fertility reflected in the cycles of Nature.
And naturally, fertility means sex. It's very difficult to have one without the other. Wicca does contain sexual context, and activity, within its' rites. Many people assume that means actual intercourse, but there are many levels of sexual activity - and indeed, a non-Wiccan would probably miss some of the sexual nature that Wiccan ritual contains (even in an outer-court situation), because it can be incredibly subtle, or easily overlooked if you're lacking the contextual knowledge initiates have.
Wicca is not a good faith for anyone who has issues being openly sexual with other people. Wicca's sexual basis is also why Wicca does not initiate minors - and in fact refuses to even start teaching the basics to a person until they are 18. This is not open to interpretation or debate: it is a part of the laws of the Wica, which are known as the Ardanes.
Ditheistic:
Wiccans believe in a pair of deities, a God and a Goddess. Wicca is, contrary to many depictions, a hard polytheistic religion. Wiccans believe that their gods are distinct and individual - not facets or aspects of an overarching, singular God or Goddess. Their actual names are oathbound. They are not archetypes, though - they are a specific God and Goddess. The terms 'Lord' and 'Lady' are simply honorifics - used to refer to the Gods of the Wica around non-initiates without breaking ones' oaths, not to indicate that they are soft-polytheistic in Nature.
The Wiccan gods do not mind if a Wiccan has existing relationships with deities from pantheons outside the faith. But one cannot use whatever pantheon they like in the place of the Lord and Lady - it alters the orthopraxy too much. So things like "Celtic Wicca", or "Norse Wicca", or "Egyptian Wicca"...just aren't Wicca at all.
Witch-cult:
All Wiccans are also witches. Nothing too scary in that. 'Cult' simply means religion, in this instance.
Clergy:
All Wiccans are initiated priesthood of the Lord and Lady. There is no exception to this. Once you are an initiate, you are their priest or priestess. It is a HUGE, life-long commitment, and an event that completely changes you. Becoming an initiate doesn't make you part of the 'cool kids', or some sort of clique. It's not a mark of status, or some kind of diploma - being a Wiccan initiate is a full-time job. It turns your life upside for a while. It creates a lot of extra work and responsibilities for you - The Gods will have their own needs, but so will the people around you. You get those late night calls from coveners whose lives are coming apart and need advise, or help, or a listening ear. You're there when someone dies, and people need help. You're there to teach new Seekers, and guide them into the path.
Frankly, a teenager isn't ready for this level of committment or change. Frequently folks in their twenties aren't either. You need to have a stable life, under your own authority, and being responsible for your own self. This is on all levels - mental, physical, and emotional. The changes initiation brings will rock the foundation of a person's life - and if that life is already in change, or flux, then it's disastrous.
Finally...
Lineaged Tradition
Wicca was founded by a man by the name of Gerald Gardner, somewhere between the late 1930's and the mid 1940's. Gardner was an initiate of a coven in an older, extant witch-cult - the New Forest Coven. He wished to preserve aspects of this witch-cult, and mixed in parts and practices from other faiths as he saw fit. and created what we call Wicca. Gardner himself was the first to use the word 'Wicca', although there are similar words from older languages.
Thus was born the Gardnerian Tradition of Wicca - the very first tradition of Wicca, and one that is still going strong today.
Other traditions were born out of this first one, each defined by its' own particular quirks or flavour, and yet also defined by the fact that they retained the orthopraxy of the Wiccan faith in their practice, and that their initiatory lineage links them back to Gardner.
That being said, there aren't as many traditions in existence as there claims to be. Legitimate forms of Wicca are: Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Mohsian, Central Valley, Silver Crescent, Kingstone, Daoine Coire, Assembly of Wicca, and Majestic. Some Blue Star and Georgian covens may have lineage as well, but it depends on the priesthood and elders of each individual lines of initiates. This group of traditions is collectively known as British Traditional Wicca, and they are the only legitimately Wiccan traditions. Traditions outside this grouping may not maintain the full orthopraxy of Wicca.
Initiatory Lineage is very important. It is how Wiccans are able to determine if someone is legitimately a Wiccan, or not. Remember back when I was talking about cross-gendered initiation (man to woman, woman to man)? If a person was initiated by the same sex, or they cannot trace their lineage to Gardner-
Example: Lord Y was initiated by Lady X. Lady X was initated by Lord V. Lord V was initiated by Lady T. Lady T was initiated by Gerald Gardner
- then a person cannot legitimately claim to be Wiccan, and any person they initiate likewise cannot claim to be Wiccan. It's really that simple. It's not a blood lineage, either - you do not have to be related to Gardner by blood, and the idea of families passing on Wiccan initiation amongst its' members violates the Ardanes, the laws of Wicca.
Some people complain, as I mentioned before, that it's difficult to find lineaged groups - that they have no choice but to learn from books or online or people who aren't initiates. It's true. It can be a real search - for the simple reason that Wicca is not for everyone. It isn't interested in numbers, or reaching everyone; there are built-in quality controls.
Wicca's membership are specifically called by the Gods of Wicca to be priesthood - a role not every person interested in Wicca is qualified for. Those who are legitimately called end up finding a coven and becoming initiates, no matter the cost or effort. There are plenty of other paths available under the pagan umbrella that will better suit the people who don't. Unfortuntely Wicca is popular, and better known than other pagan religions, and people become fixated on it and nothing else...which leads to many of the problems I've already mentioned.Aidan Wallcroft Ladies and Gentlemen, repeat after me:
arrow Wicca was established as a religion in 1951 by Gerald Gardner. Before his coven was established and the publication of his book, Witchcraft Today, Wicca did NOT exist. Although Gardner did take the word 'wicca' from Old Anglo-Saxon, there is no mention of the religion before Gerald Gardner; so much for the claim that Wicca is a "10,000-year-old Pagan religion."
arrow Wicca is a mystery religion, and everything except the most basic principles of the faith is taught ONLY after initiation into the coven. Therefore, anything you read in books (and on the internet) about Wicca is probably false, as the secrets of the religion are not available to the general public.
arrow Initiation into a coven requires sex rites that are performed between the initiate and either a High Priest or Priestess. Therefore, you CANNOT be initiated into a coven until you are above the age of consent. Every Wiccan can trace their lineage back to Gerald Gardner or a member of his original coven, so unless you can recite who initiated whom in your coven and trace their lineage back to Gardner, you are not a Wiccan.
Is everyone clear on this subject? Good. Quote: Wicca is an orthopraxy. Properly practicing Wicca means that you follow the core laid out by Gardner in the Book of Shadows. Moving far enough outside that core practice makes what you are doing not Wicca. There are plenty of Wiccans and Wiccan covens - lineaged, properly initiated and working within orthopraxy - out there. They are still taking in Seekers, still teaching, still maintaining the core practice, still initiating new members. If you want it, and you're called, it's out there. Wicca isn't interested in quantity. There are standards (what is called 'proper personhood'), and a lot of people won't meet them. It doesn't make them wrong, or bad, or lesser in any way - all it means is that they're not meant to be Wiccan. There are many other pagan paths to be explored, that are possibly a better fit for a person. Unfortuntely many people get so fixated on Wicca they blind themselves to other possibilities. Why should people outside Wicca (who either simply aren't called to be the initiated priesthood of two specific deities, or who don't want to do the work involved) be allowed to define a religion they're not part of? Why should those people who can't take the time and effort to earn the title of Wiccan, get to decide what Wicca is and isn't, or what it should be? People who 'modify' Wicca? Not Wiccans, practicing not-Wicca. Chances are they were never Wiccan to begin with. Unless you're at least 18, in a coven that can trace lineage back to Gardner, and was initiated into a coven by cross-gender initiation, You're not Wiccan. There are only two initiated Wiccan on Gaiaonline, Scorplet and Morgandria
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Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:45 pm
And this as well maenad nuri Scorpletts Wicca Reading ListAuthor: Scorplett Title: My Suggested Reading list WICCA ORIENTED AND BY REAL WICCAN AUTHORS The Alex Sanders Lectures – Alex Sanders Witchcraft Today – Gerald Gardner The Meaning of Witchcraft – Gerald Gardner A Witches Bible (or ‘What Witches Do and Eight Sabbat’s for Witches) – Stewart Farrar Wicca- The Old in the New Age – Vivienne Crowley Charge of the Goddess - Doreen Valiente Circle of Fire – Sorita D'Este Lid off the Cauldron – Patricia Crowther Rebirth of Witchcraft – Doreen Valiente Dancing with Witches – Lois Bourne Religion Without Beliefs – Fred Lammond NEO-PAGANISM AND ECLECTIC WITCHCRAFT Witchcraft for Tomorrow – Doreen Valiente Witchcrafting – Phillis Currot Elements of Ritual – Deborah Lipp Spiral Dance – Starhawk Drawing Down the Moon – Margot Adler Magical Rites from the Crystal Well - Ed Fitch Coven Craft: Witchcraft for Three or More - Amber K Ethics and the Craft - John J. Coughlin The Truth About Witchcraft - Hanz Holzer The Paganism Reader - Chas Clifton TRADITIONAL WITCHCRAFT Mastering Witchcraft – Paul Huson Conversations with a Witch – Lois Bourne The Forge of Tubal Cain - Ann Finnin The Crooked Path Journal (Various Contributors) Hedge Rider - Eric de Vries Sorgitzak: Old Forest Craft - Veronica Cummer ACADEMIC HISTORIES OF WICCA AND WITCHCRAFT Triumph of The Moon – Ronald Hutton Wiccan Roots: Gerald Gardner and the Modern Witchcraft Revival (also as: Gerald Gardner and the Cauldron of Inspiration: An Investigation into the Sources of Gardnerian Witchcraft)– Philip Heselton Her Hidden Children: The Rise of Wicca And Paganism in America - Chas S. Clifton The Pickengill Papers-The Origin of the Gardnerian Craft - W.E. Liddell WITCHCRAFT AND MAGIC IN EUROPE: (a 6 Volume series), edited by Bengt Ankarloo and Stuart Clark Vol 1 Biblical and Pagan Societies Vol 2 Ancient Greece and Rome Vol 3 The Middle Ages Vol 4 The Period of the Witch Trials Vol 5 The 18th & 19th Centuries Vol 6 The 20th Century Early Modern Witches: Witchcraft Cases in Contemporary Writing Edited by Marion Gibson HISTORICAL WITCHCRAFT TEXTS Malleaus Mallifacarum The White Goddess – Graves The new Golden Bough – Frazer Aradia: Gospel of the Witches – Leyland A Witchcult in Western Europe – Murray REFERANCE TEXTS ABC of Witchcraft – Doreen Valiente The Witches God – Farrar The Witches Goddess – Farrar Spells to Change Your Life - Lois Bourne Spells and how they work – Farrar PSYCHOLOGY TEXTS (i.e Lots of Jung!) Man and His Symbols – Carl Jung The Undiscovered Self - Carl G. Jung The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious - Carl G. Jung Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle - Carl G. Jung Psychology and Religion (The Terry Lectures Series) - Carl G. Jung BIOGRAPHIES King of the Witches – June Johns Fire Child: The Life & Magic of Maxine Sanders 'Witch Queen' - Maxine Sanders Fifty Years of Wicca – Frederic Lammond Diary of a Witch - Sybil Leek Gerald Gardner: Witch - Jack L Bracelin High Priestess – Patricia Crowther Witch Amongst Us – Lois Bourne Witches Speak – Aronld and Patricia Crowther [RARE BOOK] CEREMONIAL MAGICK AND OCCULT/MYSTICISM TEXTS Magick in theory and practice – Crowley The Kabbalah unveiled – Mathers The Tree of Life: An Illustrated Study in Magic - Israel Regardie The Training & Work of an Initiate - Dion Fortune FICTION Sea Priestess - Dion Fortune High Magic’s Aid – Scire (Gerald Gardner) Witches Were For Hanging (Paperback) FICTION – Patricia Crowther OPEN SOURCE There are a fair few books that are available open source if you don't mind reading off a computer screen! Some of them might be a little heavy going for the beginner, but they are all classic texts on Wicca and Witchcraft The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/frazer/index.htm The Witch-Cult in Western Europe by Margaret Alice Murray http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/wcwe/index.htm Aradia; Gospel of the Witches by Charles G. Leland http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/aradia/index.htm Etruscan Roman Remains in Popular Tradition by Charles Godfrey Leland http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/err/index.htm Letters on Demonology and Witchcraft by Sir Walter Scott http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/scott/index.htm The Sorceress (La Sorcière) by Jules Michelet translation by Afred Richard Allinson http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/sor/index.htm Witchcraft Today (PDF) - by Gerald Gardner http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/WiccaWitchcraftToday.pdf The Meaning of Witchcraft - Gerald Gardner http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/TheMeaningofWitchcraft.doc High Magics Aid - A 'fictional' book by Gerald Gardner http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/HighMagicsAid.doc Gerald Gardner: Witch - attributed to Jack Bracelin but actually written by Idries Shah http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wisewoman/GeraldGardnerWitch[1].rtf God of the Witches (PDF) - by Dr Margaret Murray, http://www.thewica.co.uk/godwitch.pdf The following are some rare and out of print books by the Crowthers. The Secrets of Ancient Witchcraft With the Witches Tarot by Arnold Crowther (Hardcover - Jun 1974) Witchcraft in Yorkshire by Patricia Crowther (Unknown Binding - 1973) From Stagecraft to Witchcraft: The Early Years of a High Priestess by Patricia Crowther The Zodiac Experience: Initiation Through the Twelve Signs – Patricia Crowther
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:23 pm
moon_the_angel_of_hell Wicca is the religion...we are called Wiccans; and to sum up what we do in a very very very very...small nut shell is witchcraft. Witchcraft (still going simple here) can be good or evil. Wiccans that are evil use dark magic. Wiccans that are good use light magic; most wiccans you find are good. We learn what to go by, by listeing to Gods and Goddesses....doing research and studying the past and present.
I would have to disagree with you here somewhat. I am not a wiccan, or attempting to be, or want to be, but I find it all very fascinating and have looked into it. Those that practice, or attempt, "black magick" cannot be termed wiccans because it contradicts the wiccan rede which was previously stated "An ye harm none, do what ye will."
Which means you can basically do whatever you want, as long as it does not harm anyone physically or emotionally, which INCLUDES manipulation such as love spells that make someone love you.
-Wiccans do have love spell (I think haha), but that isn't what they do. They open you up to love, and those around you, to the idea, they don't change anyone's natural emotions or feelings about you.
Whichcraft perhaps, can be looked at beyond only for the good, but I do not believe you can be a practitioner of dark arts, and still honestly call yourself a wiccan. I mean, they technically only have one rule- and that's the wiccan rede, if your not following it, how can you be a wiccan?
Then there's the threefold law: What good or bad you do returns to you threefold (think karma).
@Alaois: Your quote puts it well- if you deviate too far from what wicca is, it ceases to be wicca, but becomes something else.
I would go on, but considering in reality, I know so little about the actual religion, I just wanted to put in what I was pretty damn sure about ;D
I find research about "the old religion" that I think wicca, or a lot of it, was based off of, which as far as I know, relates to other pagan beliefs, is more wide ranged, or rather, there is more knowledge about it... Though, I'm sure plenty of things are false there as well.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:36 am
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:15 am
Omg A Name moon_the_angel_of_hell Wicca is the religion...we are called Wiccans; and to sum up what we do in a very very very very...small nut shell is witchcraft. Witchcraft (still going simple here) can be good or evil. Wiccans that are evil use dark magic. Wiccans that are good use light magic; most wiccans you find are good. We learn what to go by, by listeing to Gods and Goddesses....doing research and studying the past and present.
I would have to disagree with you here somewhat. I am not a wiccan, or attempting to be, or want to be, but I find it all very fascinating and have looked into it. Those that practice, or attempt, "black magick" cannot be termed wiccans because it contradicts the wiccan rede which was previously stated "An ye harm none, do what ye will."
Which means you can basically do whatever you want, as long as it does not harm anyone physically or emotionally, which INCLUDES manipulation such as love spells that make someone love you.
-Wiccans do have love spell (I think haha), but that isn't what they do. They open you up to love, and those around you, to the idea, they don't change anyone's natural emotions or feelings about you.
Whichcraft perhaps, can be looked at beyond only for the good, but I do not believe you can be a practitioner of dark arts, and still honestly call yourself a wiccan. I mean, they technically only have one rule- and that's the wiccan rede, if your not following it, how can you be a wiccan?
Then there's the threefold law: What good or bad you do returns to you threefold (think karma).
@Alaois: Your quote puts it well- if you deviate too far from what wicca is, it ceases to be wicca, but becomes something else.
I would go on, but considering in reality, I know so little about the actual religion, I just wanted to put in what I was pretty damn sure about ;D
I find research about "the old religion" that I think wicca, or a lot of it, was based off of, which as far as I know, relates to other pagan beliefs, is more wide ranged, or rather, there is more knowledge about it... Though, I'm sure plenty of things are false there as well.
I was explain it in simple terms, for someone who didn't even think there was another religion in the world beside theres. Yes we do have love spells, but we cannot take away free will. Wiccan can not do black magic because then whe are no longer wiccans....we are witches.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:19 am
0Kyuu0 ~Ichigo_Pie~ moon_the_angel_of_hell Wicca is the religion...we are called Wiccans; and to sum up what we do in a very very very very...small nut shell is witchcraft. Witchcraft (still going simple here) can be good or evil. Wiccans that are evil use dark magic. Wiccans that are good use light magic; most wiccans you find are good. We learn what to go by, by listeing to Gods and Goddesses....doing research and studying the past and present. Just to add onto this, my sister-in-law says that there are some people who practice witchcraft who are not wiccan, and there are some wiccans who do not practice magick. Am I right in assuming she's correct? (It sounds logical to me =o ) yep, that's right, though a lot of people do do both. And from what I've read, there aren't really 'good' or 'bad' wiccans. Also, dark doesn't necessarily mean bad, it's just the opposite of light, which doesn't necessarily mean good. And just to prove not all Christians are completely terrible and anti-wicca, my best friend goes to a catholic school and knows I'm wiccan. Well that's some, but there are a lot of christians in the dark and I hate them because they wont open there eyes
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:23 am
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:03 am
moon_the_angel_of_hell Omg A Name moon_the_angel_of_hell Wicca is the religion...we are called Wiccans; and to sum up what we do in a very very very very...small nut shell is witchcraft. Witchcraft (still going simple here) can be good or evil. Wiccans that are evil use dark magic. Wiccans that are good use light magic; most wiccans you find are good. We learn what to go by, by listeing to Gods and Goddesses....doing research and studying the past and present.
I would have to disagree with you here somewhat. I am not a wiccan, or attempting to be, or want to be, but I find it all very fascinating and have looked into it. Those that practice, or attempt, "black magick" cannot be termed wiccans because it contradicts the wiccan rede which was previously stated "An ye harm none, do what ye will."
Which means you can basically do whatever you want, as long as it does not harm anyone physically or emotionally, which INCLUDES manipulation such as love spells that make someone love you.
-Wiccans do have love spell (I think haha), but that isn't what they do. They open you up to love, and those around you, to the idea, they don't change anyone's natural emotions or feelings about you.
Whichcraft perhaps, can be looked at beyond only for the good, but I do not believe you can be a practitioner of dark arts, and still honestly call yourself a wiccan. I mean, they technically only have one rule- and that's the wiccan rede, if your not following it, how can you be a wiccan?
Then there's the threefold law: What good or bad you do returns to you threefold (think karma).
@Alaois: Your quote puts it well- if you deviate too far from what wicca is, it ceases to be wicca, but becomes something else.
I would go on, but considering in reality, I know so little about the actual religion, I just wanted to put in what I was pretty damn sure about ;D
I find research about "the old religion" that I think wicca, or a lot of it, was based off of, which as far as I know, relates to other pagan beliefs, is more wide ranged, or rather, there is more knowledge about it... Though, I'm sure plenty of things are false there as well.
I was explain it in simple terms, for someone who didn't even think there was another religion in the world beside theres. Yes we do have love spells, but we cannot take away free will. Wiccan can not do black magic because then whe are no longer wiccans....we are witches. That isn't Simple terms, my quotes put it in Simple terms, it wasn't even right. Now I ask,what is your age and your Lineage Moon...
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:05 pm
Wiccans are witches. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Wiccans don't even usually refer to themselves as wiccans, do they?
Regardless, you sound like someone that probably does this on your own based off of things you have read. Well, perhaps not even that. I seem to be more informed and all I have done is some research on the computer and read one book, soooo....
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:18 pm
Omg A Name
Wiccans are witches. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Wiccans don't even usually refer to themselves as wiccans, do they?
Regardless, you sound like someone that probably does this on your own based off of things you have read. Well, perhaps not even that. I seem to be more informed and all I have done is some research on the computer and read one book, soooo....
who are you talking to? Wiccans may be witches, but a witch=/=Wiccan.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:41 pm
Alaois Omg A Name
Wiccans are witches. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Wiccans don't even usually refer to themselves as wiccans, do they?
Regardless, you sound like someone that probably does this on your own based off of things you have read. Well, perhaps not even that. I seem to be more informed and all I have done is some research on the computer and read one book, soooo....
who are you talking to? Wiccans may be witches, but a witch=/=Wiccan.
Moon lol. It's clear your more well informed then I am, again, I know I know so little... but I was saying that little sadly, seems to be more then moon, who is explaining even the most simplest thing of it wrong.
She basically said that if your a wiccan that practices black magic, your a witch... That's what it sounded like to me anyway, which is completely wrong, was my point.
"Wiccan can not do black magic because then whe are no longer wiccans....we are witches"
My point was that wiccans are witches anyway. You don't have to not be a wiccan to be a witch... even if you can be a witch and not a wiccan? Every square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square I suppose.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:44 pm
Omg A Name Alaois Omg A Name
Wiccans are witches. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Wiccans don't even usually refer to themselves as wiccans, do they?
Regardless, you sound like someone that probably does this on your own based off of things you have read. Well, perhaps not even that. I seem to be more informed and all I have done is some research on the computer and read one book, soooo....
who are you talking to? Wiccans may be witches, but a witch=/=Wiccan.
Moon lol. It's clear your more well informed then I am, again, I know I know so little... but I was saying that little sadly, seems to be more then moon, who is explaining even the most simplest thing of it wrong.
She basically said that if your a wiccan that practices black magic, your a witch... That's what it sounded like to me anyway, which is completely wrong, was my point.
"Wiccan can not do black magic because then whe are no longer wiccans....we are witches"
My point was that wiccans are witches anyway.
Yeah, I thought you were talking about Moon, but I had to be sure. sweatdrop Yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing... -shakes his head- She needs to read my quotes I posted not too far back. I'm only informed because I try to read up and try to stay ahead of the 'fluffy' which is what Moon sounds like, she read one book (probably by Silver Ravenwolf stare ) and thinks she is a Wiccan.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:51 pm
Have you heard of Phyllis Curott?
That ended up being the one I got when I became curious about Wicca, after reading up a little on the internet. It says she is a Wiccan High Priestess, and the book is called "Book of Shadows" which I have come to learn is also only what the name of the diaries that all witches keep is?
Regardless of the truth of the book anyway, Wicca is certainly interesting from what I have found out. I love the companionship, yet, the individuality of it. Most religions don't promote the individual.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:59 pm
Omg A Name
Have you heard of Phyllis Curott?
That ended up being the one I got when I became curious about Wicca, after reading up a little on the internet. It says she is a Wiccan High Priestess, and the book is called "Book of Shadows" which I have come to learn is also only what the name of the diaries that all witches keep is?
Regardless of the truth of the book anyway, Wicca is certainly interesting from what I have found out. I love the companionship, yet, the individuality of it. Most religions don't promote the individual.
Yeah, I believe I've read a book by her Probably is, any book, website, or 2nd hand info you learn is all considered Outer Court. You cannot learn Wicca unless you are in a Coven that can trace lineage back to Gardner...even though people want to argue that. Gardner made Wicca, he is the one you need to trace back to.
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