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 Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:45 pm
In Medias Res IV There is no such thing as the "right religion". Be a good person, that's all that matters in life. This thread is going to turn into a battlefield with the first Christian claiming that those who do not accept Jesus as their personal saviour are going to hell.
I believe my religion's right, but it's possible I'll die and Jesus'll be there eyeing me and tapping his foot and I'll be like 0_o....
Or it could even be something else, or the atheists are right and it's nothing...
But, yeah, I don't believe that will happen, I just acknowledge that it's possible.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:43 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew I believe my religion's right, but it's possible I'll die and Jesus'll be there eyeing me and tapping his foot and I'll be like 0_o.... The question, I feel, is that were your scenario to be true would you accept Him then?
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:16 pm
CH1YO Lumanny the Space Jew I believe my religion's right, but it's possible I'll die and Jesus'll be there eyeing me and tapping his foot and I'll be like 0_o.... The question, I feel, is that were your scenario to be true would you accept Him then?
I'd need irrefutable proof, but in the afterlife in that situation it seems like I'd have it...
Maybe.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:19 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew CH1YO Lumanny the Space Jew I believe my religion's right, but it's possible I'll die and Jesus'll be there eyeing me and tapping his foot and I'll be like 0_o.... The question, I feel, is that were your scenario to be true would you accept Him then?
Maybe.Get off the fence, you're a heathen or a heretic; which is it gonna be?
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:21 pm
CH1YO Lumanny the Space Jew CH1YO Lumanny the Space Jew I believe my religion's right, but it's possible I'll die and Jesus'll be there eyeing me and tapping his foot and I'll be like 0_o.... The question, I feel, is that were your scenario to be true would you accept Him then?
Maybe.Get off the fence, you're a heathen or a heretic; which is it gonna be? You do realize that this isn't a Christian-only guild ya know?
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:37 pm
In Medias Res IV Semiremis In Medias Res IV He's smart enough to realise that G-d's chosen nation shouldn't be persecuted, hated or condemned. Funny, I was taught to be a Zionist in Catholic school and taught that it's not okay to think that Jews are going to Hell. God's chosen nation as opposed to others? No one should be persecuted, hated or condemned. Why do I get the feeling that positive virtues only apply to Judaism in your mind? I was taught about the bible and God at Sunday school, not someones twisted political views about how God's chosen Nation deserves to have handed to them the land that was theirs thousands of years ago. You're feeling wrong. Many Christians believe that they're the only people who are allowed to go to heaven, I have a right to be a little tiffed off about that. I think you need to go learn more about the Holy Land. That statement is horribly offensive. True ZIonism teaches that there shall be no one true Jewish state. Chosen =/ better Many Christians believe that I'm not going to heaven because I'm Catholic and I don't sweat about because I'm very secure in where I'm at and what I believe in. Your frustration is not justified by that alone because it's just ludicrous although you do have the right to be upset over whatever you want to be. So what if someone thinks you're doomed in the afterlife, they're hurting themselves more than anyone else if they're kind and compassionate because that will make them suffer in their worry over the state of your soul. If the individual is just an a*****e and is happy that you'll "one day see how wrong you were" then they aren't worth the anger/frustration you direct at them. How is my statement about the holy land offensive?
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:40 pm
Semiremis In Medias Res IV Semiremis In Medias Res IV He's smart enough to realise that G-d's chosen nation shouldn't be persecuted, hated or condemned. Funny, I was taught to be a Zionist in Catholic school and taught that it's not okay to think that Jews are going to Hell. God's chosen nation as opposed to others? No one should be persecuted, hated or condemned. Why do I get the feeling that positive virtues only apply to Judaism in your mind? I was taught about the bible and God at Sunday school, not someones twisted political views about how God's chosen Nation deserves to have handed to them the land that was theirs thousands of years ago. You're feeling wrong. Many Christians believe that they're the only people who are allowed to go to heaven, I have a right to be a little tiffed off about that. I think you need to go learn more about the Holy Land. That statement is horribly offensive. True ZIonism teaches that there shall be no one true Jewish state. Chosen =/ better Many Christians believe that I'm not going to heaven because I'm Catholic and I don't sweat about because I'm very secure in where I'm at and what I believe in. Your frustration is not justified by that alone because it's just ludicrous although you do have the right to be upset over whatever you want to be. So what if someone thinks you're doomed in the afterlife, they're hurting themselves more than anyone else if they're kind and compassionate because that will make them suffer in their worry over the state of your soul. If the individual is just an a*****e and is happy that you'll "one day see how wrong you were" then they aren't worth the anger/frustration you direct at them. How is my statement about the holy land offensive? I get more pissed when people say Catholics are going to hell. My grandfather is a Catholic and I take that as a personal insult. >.>
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:51 pm
In Medias Res IV Ah, but you see, you ARE a Christian. Any other denomination that tells you otherwise is simply stupid and ill informed. You believe in Christ and thus you will be "saved" by doctrine. I don't believe that Christian persecution exists, but it is fact that 6 million Jews were murdered simply for being Jewish. Where are their souls? By Christian doctrine, they're in Hell. Yes, I have a right to be angry. I will take offence to any anti-semitism towards the Jewish nation. Judaism teaches that ALL righteous people have a place in heaven, yet, Christianity teaches that only those who are "saved" inherit the kingdom of G-d. Please tell me how that is fair and not full of intolerance and hate.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:21 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew In Medias Res IV There is no such thing as the "right religion". Be a good person, that's all that matters in life. This thread is going to turn into a battlefield with the first Christian claiming that those who do not accept Jesus as their personal saviour are going to hell.
I believe my religion's right, but it's possible I'll die and Jesus'll be there eyeing me and tapping his foot and I'll be like 0_o....
Or it could even be something else, or the atheists are right and it's nothing...
But, yeah, I don't believe that will happen, I just acknowledge that it's possible.I lol'd @ tapping foot Jesus.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:27 pm
To the topicccc.
I religion is just good for me. It's right for me. It's true for me. It's the only way for me to live my life... for me.
However, my religion might be crap, wrong, a lie, and a horrible way to live a life for someone else.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:02 pm
Not all Christians believe in immediate judgment.. so no, from my view nobodys in hell.. its more of a majority doctrine in Christianity to believe in instant trophy or butt whopping.
As far as my religion .. hmm it makes the most since to me... i guess that's why i pursue my beliefs, i read ,i learn, i listen and so far i haven't had sufficient evidence to fall away from my core beliefs. My biggest thing is never never never ever follow something because of all the literature , "supposed facts" or fables, test it if you see a contradiction pursue it.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:46 pm
This is in response to the last post by In Medias Res IV:
Quote: Ah, but you see, you ARE a Christian. Any other denomination that tells you otherwise is simply stupid and ill informed. You believe in Christ and thus you will be "saved" by doctrine. I don't believe that Christian persecution exists, but it is fact that 6 million Jews were murdered simply for being Jewish. Where are their souls? By Christian doctrine, they're in Hell. Yes, I have a right to be angry. I will take offence to any anti-semitism towards the Jewish nation. Judaism teaches that ALL righteous people have a place in heaven, yet, Christianity teaches that only those who are "saved" inherit the kingdom of G-d. Please tell me how that is fair and not full of intolerance and hate. You don't like it when others misrepresent Judaism, in fact it seems to really frustrate you (which is understandable) yet you go around and do the same to Christianity by representing the doctrine of salvation held by only some of the 33,000 Christian denominations out there. So what If I am Christian, they don't say I'm not saved because I'm not a christian they get into the whole worshiping idols, worshiping the saints a Mary bs. They still tell me that I'm going to hell and that doesn't matter, there are a lot of things worth getting upset about, the religious beliefs of others concerning the afterlife isn't one of them. It only becomes warranted when you start being treated poorly because of it and yes I'm sure that's happened to you, it's happened to me (or doesn't it count because it's okay to harass Christians since they are the big bad oppressors?). Whatever the case may be we all know that the one or two or three bad [insert religion here] that we come across in life should not be automatically taken as a representitive as a whole even if it sometimes seems like it's most of them. You're playing the persecution card? confused No one is talking about persecution, I'm certainly not advocating it so what does it have to do with this conversation. According to Christianity the souls of the dead victims of the Holocaust could be in hell, or they could be in heaven why do you keep holding up the more negative beliefs found amongst some Christian denominations over all others. I mean, the Catholic Church is the LARGEST christian denomination and I already posted what the Catechism says about salvation outside of the Church. It didn't damn all non Christians to hell. I take offense to anti-semitism as well. Where does this fit into the conversation? Your view of Christianity does seem very intolerable and hateful and it's a very good thing that it is not God's view. Quote: Quote: Your frustration is not justified by that alone because it's just ludicrous although you do have the right to be upset over whatever you want to be. No, I have many issues with proselytising. Have you ever heard of Jews for Jesus? It's a group of Evangelical Christians who disguise themselves as Jews to try and convert Jews to Christianity. THIS is a true sin. THIS infuriates Hashem. The children of Avraham do not need to be proselytised to. Every time a Christian tries to convert a Jew or tell them that they are going to Hell, it is indeed anti-Semitism. Just as Christians trying to convert atheists is also a violation of a person's personal space and freedom from religion. I have very strong (negative) feelings towards proselytising as well and no I've never heard of Jews for Jesus but it sounds like they aren't worth my time. I don't condone what you say that they do and their actions are extremely foreign to the Christian religion that I know. You could grab fringe groups from any religion though. Christians are not anti-semitic for doing what their faith commands them to do according to their understanding of it. They ARE NOT antisemitic for preaching to the Jews when they do the same to every other group of people out there. That's not hate, it's not prejudice, it is following the dictates of ones religion as it is interpreted by that individual. Why are you putting Judaism up on a pedestal? Not everything Christians do that you don't like is anti-semitic, take that approach and you destroy any weight that the word use to hold. Quote: Quote: So what if someone thinks you're doomed in the afterlife, they're hurting themselves more than anyone else if they're kind and compassionate because that will make them suffer in their worry over the state of your soul. Silly silly silly. You don't see any Jews trying to convert you. There's good reason for that. You don't need to be "saved". Be a good person. For the most part there isn't active Jewish proselytizing, but there was in the past and there is actually a call for it today. "I welcome the idea of freshening up the gene pool," says San Francisco sociologist Gary Tobin, president of the Institute for Jewish and Community Research and author of Opening the Gates-How Proactive Conversion Can Revitalize the Jewish Community. "We're doing a great mitzvah if we help make more Jews."
SourceQuote: Quote: If the individual is just an a*****e and is happy that you'll "one day see how wrong you were" then they aren't worth the anger/frustration you direct at them. But they are worth it. Intolerant Christians are the biggest hypocrites around. Ummm, no. The far left preaching tolerance when the only tolerance they know is tolerance for them and their views, are the biggest hypocrites around. Or we could look at this rationally and understand that a hypocrite is a hypocrite and the harm done is only measured by the amount of mental turmoil or frustration it causes in others. Quote: Quote: How is my statement about the holy land offensive? "not someones twisted political views about how God's chosen Nation deserves to have handed to them the land that was theirs thousands of years ago" That sounds incredibly negative. Judea, look it up. Israel belongs to the Jews, however, it's not supposed to be a 100% Jewish state. It's also your Holy Land, you should hold it in higher regard. We had no right to force a Jewish state into the holy land which subsequently caused the deaths of many people of whatever religion or faith who resided in the area. 60 years of on and off turmoil, of war and suffering is the result. The holocaust was horrendous but the response to it resulted in the loss of many more lives because we thought it would be a good idea to intervene and force the creation of the state, and that is wrong. And what's even more wrong is the fact that Christian Zionists were strong backers of it because they thought they would give the land back to God's people and maybe speed up the end times a bit. Now tell me, how that is right? Maybe it seems negative but what's really negative is to be behind something that has resulted in so many atrocities. What's really negative is deciding that some people are better and thus should be placed in the holy land despite the fact that the state of Israel, the land of God's chosen people had not been there's as a separate state for thousands of years.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:05 pm
Jews For Jesus is a group of converted Jews who desire to share their conversions as a way to proselytize the Jewish Culture today. THe issue i have with them is that once the conversion begins, the cultural Jewishness of the individuals is frowned upon in the community and are forced to accept the Evangelical forms of worship instead of something still Jewish in practice. Liturgics is left out, as well as the group prayers of the Sh'ma and the Amidah. How I know about this group? Well for starters I know Rosalind Moss who used to be a part of JFJ. Second, I got to hear all about them from both sides. I would prefer someone not losing their culture if they convert to something/anything.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:26 pm
Semiremis 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330 Didn't Muhammed personally have the all the Jews in Arabia dealt with?
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:54 pm
i think that as long as we are on earth, there won't be a definitive answer to which is right and which is wrong. each religion has it's good points and that is why it continues to gather followers.
i am a mormon, through baptism and thought, but i actually don't go to church with them, because it's not the religion itself that's giving me trouble, but the people in there who have too much pride in this area (where the mormon is the majority), and unless you are like them exactly how they want you to be, you are a social pariah. i occasionally go to the baptist church with my husband (he's a mormon too, but he has the same problem fitting into church as me).
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