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 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:18 am
havishanta Hmmm...In can see where you stand from borderline_mary. And the fact that they didn't have the battle in the manga might affect some things... Yes, I have seen FMA and I could see the issues regarding Dante and applying it to Kurama, as well as the whole soul's affect on Kurama and if it's right and such. The way I saw it was that there was no human soul to begin with really, that it was just him in a human form and the experiences that affected him...but maybe your right. Body-hopping would probably set up issues with Spirit World at some point in time. I wonder why Spirit World has not tried to catch Yusuke... The Manga makes things alot clearer. Anyone who doesn't mind being spoiled can highlight to read. OK the Manga reveals that Sensui was right demons were never really the problem.
The Majority of the demon troubles were caused by Enma and the spirit world. They were brainwashing Demons to attack humans so they could basically be tyrants and justify the barrier being in place.
Koenma finds out at the end of the Manga and that leads to the Impeachment of the ruling party. Koenma is then in charge and takes the barrier down letting demons come and go as they please.
Meaning there is no reason to go after Yuusuke for being an S class demon.
Yuusuke ends up running a noodle stand and being a spirit detective on the side occasionally dragging Kurama along on his cases.
The fact all this was cut from the Anime makes Genki's plans for her temple come out of left field since in the Anime it's never made 100% clear why the barrier is down and why Genki thinks humans and demons need a place to work toward the future.
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:48 am
Well, in the anime they give the reason that Enki has forbidden demon mischief in the human world, so now it's safe for the barrier to be down, and hence they don't have to be after Yuusuke because there's no separate world to dump him in. Personally, I found the entire Enki thing to be badly handled and reeking of deus ex machina, but given that I'd been told about the manga ending, I suppose I'm glad they at least came up with SOME excuse for it since they didn't go with the original reason.
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Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:50 pm
Awww! The ending's saaaaddd! T^T
Alright, but that makes sense, and it also makes sense why King Enma wanted Yusuke put down. I never got that too well, I thought they were just being prejudice, but no, Yusuke employed as Spirit Detective plus being half-demon would not make things good for this king.
Wait, so do Mazuko really live off of humans, or were they just brainwashed to do so and Raizen was able to break through of it when meeting Yusuke's great great great great great great great (insert ten more great's) grandma?
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Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:53 am
The manga makes it clear some demons do need to eat humans. Highlight to read the rest.
It was implied that trait was being systematically bred out of the demons over the generations
IIRC Raizen even remarks how Yuusuke doesn't need to eat humans that he's an improvement over himself.
It's implied that the demons who eat humans used to simply take jobs of assassinate from other humans to get their food supply. In otherwords if you pay me I"ll go kill your enemies instead of eating you.
The Manga ending basically explained why there had only been three spirit detectives and why only one person was able to keep the demon menance in check.
Humans were more dangerous to demons than the other way around by Magnifying the demon menace King Enma got to rule unopposd and profit from the mortal world.
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Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:04 pm
How sad! Was anyone else in Spirit World aware of the corruption of King Enma's ruling? How did Koenma get ear of it?
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:23 am
havishanta How sad! Was anyone else in Spirit World aware of the corruption of King Enma's ruling? How did Koenma get ear of it? It goes back to Sensui Highlight to read more: Koenma got suspicious after he learned Chapter black had been stolen. While he was investigating how Sensui got away with it he noticed that some of the reports were off and started digging eventually exposing his father which lead to his impeachment and Koenma being the new boss of the spirit world.
Genki's death occurs while Yuusuke is in the spirit world rescueing Koenma from supporters of his deposed father who are attempting a revolution.
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 12:25 pm
Dang...that's intense. o_o;
But GETTING back on subject. I was rewatching the anime, and on the last episode, apparently its been over a year, Keiko has shown tremendous growth (her hair, legs, looks more mature) yet Yusuke, who at that age should've had growth spurt, didn't appear to have aged a bit.
Mazoku blood? Bad animators? It's a mystery! ^^;
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:35 am
havishanta Dang...that's intense. o_o; But GETTING back on subject. I was rewatching the anime, and on the last episode, apparently its been over a year, Keiko has shown tremendous growth (her hair, legs, looks more mature) yet Yusuke, who at that age should've had growth spurt, didn't appear to have aged a bit. Mazoku blood? Bad animators? It's a mystery! ^^; It's pretty similar in the Manga when they gather to read Genki's will. Yuusuke still looks the same and Keiko looks pretty much like she did in the Anime. The only real difference is that IIRC you saw Keiko grow more in the manga it wasn't as quick a jump as it was in the anime.
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 8:44 pm
...I don't like the sound of that. Do you really think Yusuke's going to live for 1000 years? I'm starting to think that's the case, but at the same time, I just can't believe the creator would just do something like that...
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Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 12:21 pm
havishanta ...I don't like the sound of that. Do you really think Yusuke's going to live for 1000 years? I'm starting to think that's the case, but at the same time, I just can't believe the creator would just do something like that... The manga like the anime never mentions life spans. Though it's well worth reading. The entire thing is online to be read in scanlated form. (I won't link cause it's against the Gaia TOS but it's easy enough to find with google) The bits of Yuusuke being dead that never made it into the anime are fascinating and you even get to see someone who appears to be his dad at one point.
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:06 pm
Hokay, I'm just gonna jump in here mid-conversation. Hope nobody minds.
First off, someone back there said that Kurama isn't reverting to Yoko's body. Uh, hi? The original reversion happened as a direct result of the Idunn Box, which took him back in time to an older age. That was DEFINITELY Yoko's body. What else could it have been? It certainly wasn't Shuichi's body with demonic energy--clearly, his body had already been reverted to the size of a child and even younger.
Kurama's usage of the potion given to him by Suzuka was the main ingredient of the smoke that the Idunn Box produces, which means that it will, of course, have the exact same effects. That's proof right there that Kurama did truly return to his old form. I took the rest of his transformations as they appeared throughout the series as a kind of practiced reversion.
Essentially, I believe that it would have been impossible for him to return to his old form without the help of the Idunn Box. However, once that bridge was crossed, it got easier and easier for him to change back, to the point where he no longer needed the box or potion; he could turn into Yoko all on his own. Could I be wrong? Of course. But that's how I interpreted it.
Where I think the conversation was going was what effect that would have on his human form. The return to a demonic form, plus the demonic energy trapped inside, would probably have some sort of effect on the body, though it's been pointed out that Shuichi ages normally throughout the series. If I had to guess, I would assume that Yoko's energy would give him only a few extra years to live, unless it was some sort of peak, where he would stay 15 or so ffor many years and then slowly taper off. But I doubt it.
The question, then, is what happens when Shuichi's body dies? Now. As far as I can see, this could go in either direction. In my opinion, the more likely option is that Kurama's soul will die as is normal for humans and/or demons. The reason I think it is more likely is because Kurama was in his spirit fox form when he inhabited another pregnant woman, and I don't know if that's possible with his human body. Clearly he can get into his Yoko form, but YYH never makes it clear how easily a demon can shift into his spirit form, since Yoko's one of the only ones who can do so.
The other thing that might happen is that Yoko's soul could live on without the body. At that point, he could either inhabit another human body (as has been described,) or go live in the Makai as Yoko. I seriously doubt Kurama would do either one, given the choice. Consider his emotions, as borderline_mary was saying.
He loves his mother, and I think that taking another human form might even be considered a betrayal to her memory. Also, he didn't exactly enjoy his life as a human before meeting Yusuke. True, he could seek the boy out after living Shuichi's life, but is it moral for Kurama to keep inhabiting children? Would Yusuke think it moral?
As for him returning to his days as Yoko, that's more likely, but I still don't see it happening. As it's been remembered, in the anime he vows to never revert to his form as Yoko again unless absolutely necessary. He doesn't want to be Yoko anymore. He's finally been able to accept and embrace his humanity, and I don't know that after that point he would change back again. It would be too different for him, I think.
Anyway. That's my Yoko rant. The YukinaXKuwabara pairing has always gotten me misty-eyed due to the fact that Kuwabara's lifespan will seem like a second to her. Remember, a koorime's lifespan is "long to the point of seeming endless." That's like an eternity to grieve his passing.
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:41 am
Oh man, I have wanted to put my two cents into this thread for a while now, I have just been completely unable to articulate myself properly.
The subject of lifespans is something I have tossed around in my mind for a long time now, and my views on it always seem to change. Just when I think I have something down pat, my views change... or my theories are torn between the anime version and the manga version...
The torn theory fiasco could not be any worse than in the case of Kurama... You see, in the anime Kurama has demonic powers, and a demonic soul, but his body is human. That is never elabortated on and never fully delved into, so we leave it as such... In that respect, I assumed that Kurama because of this fact, would age normally. I always saw it as such that the powers he held and the soul with in him did not matter, his body was HUMAN and would age like a human's... Now I know that there was all of that discussion about the powers of the Idun Box and the potion Suzuki gave him... There was argument on the fact that he could revert to his Youko form, and therefore the potion had changed his body in some way... This could be so, but I still maintained that the shift was somehow an ability to take his powers and enhance them to change the molecular structure of his body and revert in age to his old form. Note that the potion never really made Kurama appear younger when he took it, it only enabled him to bring out Youko's form. Also, towards the last episodes it does clearly look as if Kurama has aged to 18, which makes me really believe that he is aging as a normal human would.
Then, there's the manga theory of Kurama's aging, and this is where some of my views on how Kurama will age changed, and some new speculations began. There is a clear statement that Kurama makes to Yusuke in volume three of the manga, it is on page 98, sentence number 2:
"In 10 years or so my powers would return and my body become fully inhuman, at which point I would leave the family."
So in the manga, it clearly states that "Shuichi's" body is not human by the time he is 15. This therefore means that Shuichi is but a name and a personality for his mother, and that there is nothing physically human about him anymore. The only "humanity" we see is absorbed so-to-speak, from his surroundings and environment. Essentially, humanity is his choice. Other than that, his soul is a demon's, his power's are demon's, and his body is that of a demon. In this respect we could assume that he might age like a demon... Youko appeared to be no older than 30, but he was in fact over 1000(?) years old. So perhaps as such, Kurama might only look like he's aged up to 30 or so, but really be much older as time goes on. If this is indeed the fact, it makes me wonder what is going to happen when it comes to keeping his secret from his family. I would assume he would have to keep moving and what not, in order not to be found out... Or he would have to come out with it and tell his mother what he truly was. That however, is as unlikely as Hiei ever telling Yukina he's her brother. It just won't happen. What makes me crazy though, is the fact that surely Kurama would know how he was going to age, and if it was going to be at a slow physical rate he would have to come up with SOME kind of plan after choosing to stay wit his mother at the age of six. It is just never elaborated what that plan may be...
I don't know, I just see two possible ways for Kurama to age, but depending on if you follow the anime's turn of events or the manga's, it's hard to make up your mind which is the correct one, or even if either of those options is correct. I used to think I had an amazing handle on the issue and that it was all figured out and neatly set aside, now I am not so sure and it makes me INSANE. xp
With Yusuke... well, he's not fully demon, he just has some demon blood in him. I can see Yusuke aging slightly slower than most humans, but not as drastically as say... my manga theory for Kurama. It will be a slow aging process, but I think it will still be an aging process because he's only "half demon" if you want to go that far. As far as I could tell, Yusuke awoke the demon blood with in himself, but the demon blood in him did not take over his body completely.
Yukina's aging is about the only one I am solid on, and that's because it is clarified. Like InkMistress quoted from the anime: "The lifespan of an icemaiden is long to the point of seeming endless." That means if she did indeed choose to remain with Kuwabara for the rest of his natural life she would not even appear to age a day as he got older and older. So yeah, it is rather sad for them because his time with her will be like the blink of an eye indeed. I still want to believe however, that she does truly care for him, and does want to be with him, even in spite of that fact.
Hiei is a curious matter because he is only half Koorime, and we know next to nothing about his father, or his father's abilities/lifespan. I think it is safe to assume though, that his aging will too be a slow process. However I doubt that his lifespan will be quite as long as Yukina's. I will not go so far to say that his life span will be half that of her's but I do see it as significantly shorter.
*Takes a deep breath* Okay, so that was a terribly long response and I am sorry, but I had to get it out there sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:35 am
The anime does muddle the issue a lot. Take Yuusuke in the manga from his second resurrection onward he only uses demonic energy implying that Raizen's blood awakening replaced his human spiritual energies with demonic ones.
However IIRC the anime has him mixing the two during his fight with Yomi.
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:10 am
*Whimpers* I didn't even think of the differences with the anime and the manga for Yusuke... That could completely change things for him as well, especially if in the manga it states that the demon blood completely takes over and he never uses his spirit energy again. *Groans and slams head on desk* Why must this subject be so complicated?v_v
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:15 pm
Okay. Aw man, I just got back from a Hiei rant. *takes a deeeepp breath*
Okay! I was pacing on my floor the other night before I read ALL these replies and DID realize that Shuuichi's body? Yeah, it can go all Youko demon like. How do I know this? Well, it said that fruit stuff from the Dark Tourney, yeah, it was SUPPOSED to turn him into a baby. But it went FURTHER back to when he was Youko. We all agree that his soul is demon right? Okay, lemme take a stab at this.
I VERY MUCH believe that Kurama is human with a demon soul. (Working off of anime here, heads up.) I think that his Youko soul after the whole fruit transformation was able to recognize the form and over time grew able to revert to it, as stated earlier. As for life spans, I think that he WILL age normally because his BODY is human. I think his Youko body is COMPLETELY different than his human body, otherwise, how would he have grown normally up to this point?
As to what happens when he dies, I'm not quite so sure. I think, unlike some people's posts I read in other forums, that he DOES have the capability to die.
Hmmm...do you think its a possibility with Kurama's character for him to commit suicide after his mother died if his lifespan WAS prolonged? Consider the Forlorn Hope incident. I mean, it WAS suicidal, though he was trying to SAVE her life. Hm...
AS FOR YUSUKE! I, at this point in time, officially support that Yusuke will age only SLIGHTLY slower than a normal human. (nods head in triumph)
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