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Pre-Crisis. I dont think you want to match Batman up against Pre-Crisis Superman, now do you.



PIS. We know Clark can hear every heartbeat in the state, and can identify person's by their heartbeat. We also know that he can see past both the infrared and UV spectrum, to radio, gamma, x-ray, etc, meaning he can see people's "soul" (for lack of a better term.) Superman can also hear into the infra- and supersonic ranges, meaning he can hear things far too low, or high for us to hear. Such as muscles tensing, and joints moving.



So youre saying that 9 times out of 10, Superman wins. We agree then.



Huh?

Yea, and? He's smart, but he's not the smartest person in DC, and certainly not in comics, and smarts aint gonna help him much if Clark decides to take him down. Look at whats happened the last few times Bruce has stepped up to Clark in canon.
1.) Clark (not fighting at full power) pummeled Bruce to an inch of Bruce's life, and Bruce was saved by Diana.
2.) Clark was trying not to fight, Bruce had prep time, and environmental advantage, and still ended up flat on his back with Superman about to drop a car on him.
3.) Clark catches a girl thrown out a window by Joker, and tells Bats that he is "Making your job look easy."
4.) Dodges a punch from Batman, reappears behind him, and tells him if he tries it again, he'll have a arm full of broken bones.



Oh come on. Green Arrow? Black Canary? Blue Beetle? Huntress? Nightwing? All these people are "floating around the JL" and have no powers. They dont even have Bruce's untold fortunes and incredible intelligence.



When a moron writes something completely out of line with the character, its safe to call PIS. Seriously, Batman is not the stealthiest b*****d in the universe, and its ludicrous to think so.

Batman's ability to sneak up on supes has exemption from from PIS and SMvFL because it's happened repeatedly, in the CANON, under different writers. Might not like it, but that's the way it is.
I totally agree that Supes would win 9/10. but bat still wins that one, and I'm fine with that...I was giving you the speculation you asked for early in the debate.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=134

this is an awesome link on all things VS, it explains PIS and SMvFL.

from the Comic Book Rumbles VS forum

"What is the Spiderman vs. Firelord exemption?
Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard CBR fights, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded."

You'd have to root around teh boards to get the exact comic issues/etc, but if the CBR board mod's are willing to post it as a fact, it generally is. I'm sure you could pm one of them for issue#'s and whatnot.

I'm partial to the Punisher vs Galactus thread xd
X-mas Tree I don't believe that Kyle did this to thrash or talk down Batman. The Point he is making is to prove to all the people out there that continue to say that batman can take him hands down. You like myself are Batman fans but we do know when to call it a mismatch.

biggrin

Hey Kyle which book did you get the Superman using Martial arts from. Can you list two more books where he has shown martial Arts skills?
I also need a list of KI Fighters Kal has fought and which comics they appeared in.

and on a side note...I too think batman is getting a shitty treatment by a lot of the gaia regulars lately...but hell, who cares what they think? Who are the two most iconic super hero's ever? Superman and Batman.
Doesn't matter what they think, the bat WINS.
and besides, DKR was the best thing that DC ever put out.

blaugh ninja ninja ninja

*waits for Kyle to leap* twisted

Side note--Yeah, and you know who else can sneak up on supes...Brainiac! Guess being really smart makes you more sneaky too.... ninja

And you've been pissy with me before... but we're friends in real life, so it probably doens't really count. biggrin

...Spider-stealth is law. ninja