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| Pick a Number. |
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25% |
[ 14 ] |
| 2. |
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32% |
[ 18 ] |
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41% |
[ 23 ] |
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| Total Votes : 55 |
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 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:10 pm
Jeez, you guys, you act like I never do anything with the guild stare (*cough*IguessIcouldstilldomore*cough*). I still daily update the sanct and check user discussion. Anyway, what I see the main issues of a new sanct are these: 1) We need it practical. Like PF13 just said in her post on the second page, people aren't going to want to go through 20 threads/pages just to click dragons. 2) Probably not something totally rule enforced. Very few people actually read the rules. I truly appreciate the people who do, but simply putting up giant-font, red, bold rules isn't going to insure everyone reads them or follows them. Strict enforcing can also take away part of the purpose of the Sanct, or some of the user-friendliness. It is a service for all the people who use it, not something to just be maintained. 3) Something that will be relatively permanent. Something that would give us a lot of room (a New sanct with the full 15 pages open for dragons would give us 13x more room than we have now), and something we probably would not have to fix later. fiwit I have really liked the fact that at the sanctuary, all the eggs were up front and were guaranteed views, whether folks clicked or not. I've also found that if I put the clickable egg in my post, rather than a description (i.e. picture v. "stone"), my egg sometimes hatches before it gets added, just from the views. What if you guys made a rule that eggs had to have 4 days or less to be added? Would that help cut down on the volume? Yes, this is exactly the reason why I personally want one sanct, fiwit. The great thing about the Egg Sanctuary is that no one even needs to click any dragons at all; just visiting the page gives every single dragon at least a view. EDIT: Oh, sorry for not answering your question. sad I saw your views reference and quoted it right away. Well, I generally think that needing 4 or less days would be more effort than it's worth. Like I've said earlier, not many people read the rules, and that would mean that the mods would have to check nearly every single egg that gets added. I personally would simply want one sanct with editable posts (just like Lith's post on the second page). However, I'm not sure how we should do this. I could see dragons simply be put in random order, as it used to be before, and then moving some to the next post once that one is full or near half full. I could see a mods each personally having one post on the front page. Whenever they update the sanct, they would place their dragons there. I almost like this, because each of us has our own different style. I could also see different breeds put on different posts, so 50% of the breeds would go in one post, 50% in the other, and those rates could be adjustable through time. However, this could be very inconvenient... It could be made a little easier by putting one in each tab (which is what I do now, combined with the awesome FireFox search), but it still would be almost clunky at first. It's hard to find a good solution.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:44 am
How about only two sancts! One Sanct for eggs (once it becomes a hatchling is automatically removed) and an other for hatchlings... and noone will expect anyone to do transfers... I'd say it makes complete sense that the owner of the eggs has to be in control of when to post again in the other sanct when their egg finally hatches into a hatchling!
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Quotable Conversationalist
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:05 am
Dranzer_shadow_wanderer How about if you add eggs, you have to wait two weeks to add any more to the sanctuary and have one egg post per member? My problem with that is it will take me about twenty minutes to find my post burried in the hundreds of other posts from other people with eggs. I can never remember what page I posted on, and even if I /think/ I remember, I always over-look my post and /still/ can't find it and continued to sift through all the pages.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:57 am
I personally am in favor of having two seperate sanctuarys, divided by the different dragon types colors. Even putting the dinos, silvers, golds, chicks, skywings and 2 headed dragons in 1 post and all the others in a different post would make a huge difference in the number of images to load up at a given time.
The initial changeover would be difficult, but once people got used to how it worked, I think we'd adjust just fine.
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BlackShadowmon Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:17 am
I deleted the poll and put up a new one with the 2 options people are wanting. Please vote so we know which option is wanted by the majority of people.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:11 am
I like the "eggs in one sanct, hatchlings in another" idea. It's easier for me as a user, to think "eggs here, hatchlings there" instead of having to sort through my various breed types.
When an egg hatches, it's immediately removed from the egg sanct (well, immediate is a relative term - depends on mod availability).
Individual users should be responsible for posting their hatchlings in the hatchling sanct. Mods should not move them over.
No need then for anyone to be able to find their old posts and modify them, or track how long it's been since someone's posted, or how many eggs someone has posted. And not much extra work on the mods part (no different from removing adult dragons now, I would think).
Set a strict limit on how many eggs/hatchlings can be in the sanct at any one time. Not based on user, but based on the sanct. Maybe 50 of each breed, or 2-3 rows for each breed, or something like that (the rows would be more visual, and easier to see at a glance). When the limit for that breed has been reached, don't add any more of that breed until there is space available. This doesn't keep users from posting their requests, but it keeps the sanct under control. Right now, the mods will edit a user post to say "done" or "does not confom to posting rules" so it shouldn't be a big deal to edit the post to say "that breed is full. Try again later." I think the only time I've seen a breed go to 3 rows is when it's brand new (like female splits, and now the skywings). So a 2-row limit should keep you from hitting the limit. When there's a new breed, relax the limit for that breed only, and allow an extra row for the first week or so of the new breed. Then drop it back down to the standard limit.
The challenge would be to get those eggs added later, because either the mods would need to go back and find those posts, or maybe keep a spreadsheet of the ones that need to be added later. The easiest answer would be that "the breed is full, try again later" equates to "done" and the user needs to create a new post when the breed isn't full. This puts the onus back on the user to manage their dragons, keeps them coming back to the main page (resulting in more views for all), and eliminates the need for anyone to remember where the post was with the dragons that didn't get added. I'm sure you guys can create some automated text that includes a link to the eggspam forums and they could post there, so you don't have to type it out every time.
To ease your work load, maybe get some mods just for the sanctuary, as opposed to the entire guild. Call them egg-sitters, or something. Give them the ability to add eggs/hatchlings to the sanctuaries. If you had just 2-3 more, that would take a huge strain off the mods who are trying to mod the entire guild. And you might have folks out there who are interested in helping with the sanctuary, but not interested in being a mod for the entire guild.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:20 am
The problem with the eggs/hatchlings divide is that even if the mods just delete hatchlings from one and add them to the other only if the user posts, that's still twice the work for them-- having to go through and delete, then having twice as much to add because of the additional hatchling sanctuary. It's an awesome idea, but it has the potential to be very rough on the mods.
That said, I have no particular preference except to restate that if there's more than one sanctuary, I'd be in favor of using all the posts anyway more as a precaution than any real feeling that they'll get that big.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:29 am
emumumu The problem with the eggs/hatchlings divide is that even if the mods just delete hatchlings from one and add them to the other only if the user posts, that's still twice the work for them-- having to go through and delete, then having twice as much to add because of the additional hatchling sanctuary. It's an awesome idea, but it has the potential to be very rough on the mods. That said, I have no particular preference except to restate that if there's more than one sanctuary, I'd be in favor of using all the posts anyway more as a precaution than any real feeling that they'll get that big. With my concept, they only have to re-add the ones that users re-post. Not all users will do that. Some post once and forget. And if you add some "egg-sitters" or "sanctuary monitors" to help the mods, that helps ease the workload.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:32 am
replying to myself rather than editing my previous idea -- looking at the sanctuary as it currently stands, if we moved the hatchlings to their own thread, it would free up a TON of space. With the exception of the skywings, each breed is about 50/50 eggs/hatchlings. That's just an eyeball guesstimate - I didn't count them. And if you go with a limited number of rows, and folks hide their eggs/hatchlings, that will just limit the total number of that breed, because hidden critters take more space on the page. But once they're unhidden, the space becomes available again. I really like the concept, and not just because it's my idea. It's a quick visual check for mods and users - I come in to post an egg, take a gander at the front page of the sanctuary, see 2 rows of eggs, and know not to post. Or mods come in to add the eggs, see the breed is full, and don't have to copy/paste as much code. There's no need to enforce rules that are essentially unenforcable regarding how often or how many folks can post, very little loss to the user-friendliness of the forum (if any), and it's visibly fair. Users can see at a glance if there's room for their eggs/hatchlings. fiwit I like the "eggs in one sanct, hatchlings in another" idea. It's easier for me as a user, to think "eggs here, hatchlings there" instead of having to sort through my various breed types. When an egg hatches, it's immediately removed from the egg sanct (well, immediate is a relative term - depends on mod availability). Individual users should be responsible for posting their hatchlings in the hatchling sanct. Mods should not move them over. No need then for anyone to be able to find their old posts and modify them, or track how long it's been since someone's posted, or how many eggs someone has posted. And not much extra work on the mods part (no different from removing adult dragons now, I would think). Set a strict limit on how many eggs/hatchlings can be in the sanct at any one time. Not based on user, but based on the sanct. Maybe 50 of each breed, or 2-3 rows for each breed, or something like that (the rows would be more visual, and easier to see at a glance). When the limit for that breed has been reached, don't add any more of that breed until there is space available. This doesn't keep users from posting their requests, but it keeps the sanct under control. Right now, the mods will edit a user post to say " done" or " does not confom to posting rules" so it shouldn't be a big deal to edit the post to say " that breed is full. Try again later." I think the only time I've seen a breed go to 3 rows is when it's brand new (like female splits, and now the skywings). So a 2-row limit should keep you from hitting the limit. When there's a new breed, relax the limit for that breed only, and allow an extra row for the first week or so of the new breed. Then drop it back down to the standard limit. The challenge would be to get those eggs added later, because either the mods would need to go back and find those posts, or maybe keep a spreadsheet of the ones that need to be added later. The easiest answer would be that "the breed is full, try again later" equates to "done" and the user needs to create a new post when the breed isn't full. This puts the onus back on the user to manage their dragons, keeps them coming back to the main page (resulting in more views for all), and eliminates the need for anyone to remember where the post was with the dragons that didn't get added. I'm sure you guys can create some automated text that includes a link to the eggspam forums and they could post there, so you don't have to type it out every time. To ease your work load, maybe get some mods just for the sanctuary, as opposed to the entire guild. Call them egg-sitters, or something. Give them the ability to add eggs/hatchlings to the sanctuaries. If you had just 2-3 more, that would take a huge strain off the mods who are trying to mod the entire guild. And you might have folks out there who are interested in helping with the sanctuary, but not interested in being a mod for the entire guild.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:38 am
It's not my favorite idea; I like your idea in theory, and the concept of egg-sitters sounds very helpful to the mods (and I'm all for that!) But I think what it comes down to is that I have a different idea of what I like in the Sanctuary.
My ideals for the Sanctuary are: a) it's pretty much unlimited. Everyone who posts gets added to the Sanctuary, so if someone has the bad luck of coming in late in a panic because their egg only has one day left and they were just told about it... it doesn't matter how many people were there before them, they'll get added. I remember quite a few emergency eggs being added because they weren't getting enough views/clicks just in the Eggspam thread, and it worked. I like that. heart
b) it's easy on the mods. Ideally, it would be even easier than it is now, but I recognize that that's probably not going to happen.
While your idea meets b), it limits a). I guess a) could also be abused, in the sense that people can and do ignore the "please limit the number" requests, but it's also very inclusive for new people. I won't be horrified or anything if the mods decide to go with that, but the inclusivity is something that could potentially be an issue, even if the eggs/hatchlings aren't.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:53 am
Yes fiwit, I saw your idea, and have even thought about it at one time, but I'm not too entirely sure if I should use it or not.
For now, we would cut the amount of eggs/hatchlings in each sanct in half, but that isn't entirely permanent. We have at least 7-10 users joining every day (probably more). We are probably going to continuously keep getting new members, and it is a very big possibility that both sancts could fill up.
And like emumumu said, I don't want to deny users their dragons their spots simply because we are full or the breed is at the limit. Like I said earlier, the sanct is a user service, not something to maintain. Mod/owner restrictions to ease work come last. Or course, being that the solution itself is practical. wink
I still promote one sanct, with all 14 posts (the first reserved for the rules) ready for editing.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:04 pm
okay. mind change. I still like the idea of letting the current sanc's eggs and hatchlings mature fully.
Lokumun's idea of a new sanc, with all 14 posts on the main page for eggs/hatchlings is a much better idea than multiple sancs.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:06 pm
-flails-
Ok people. SInce I don't see many changing votes at the second, why not list your idea again, with pros and cons. Then you can compare.
We don't have time to banter back and forth on who's idea is better! TJ plans to start the update tonight!!!
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:38 pm
Huh? TJ or us? razz
And for the "Egg-Sitters" deal.
Personally, I'd love to have an Egg-Sitters group. What I think we could do is have a thread in clicking/eggspam, and then a link on the main rules page, saying something to the extent of:
"Need more clicks? Then hand your eggs over to the Egg-Sitters" or something. From there, we could have the format like the egg sanct, posted in code, and then the codes would be placed in the Egg-Sitters page for anyone to post them.
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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:45 pm
*carefully pokes my head in*
To any who are worried about their eggs dying, there is now a dragon raising guide. Feel free to add your own tips and can someone make it a sticky please? It wouldn't let me.
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