|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:40 pm
Voldemort point two I read them and I'm still a Christian. They were very obviously anti-God, but the god that was killed wasn't actually God. Some of the arguments people use to justify their atheism make me laugh (not just in the books, but something one character says is kind of funny, as she claims to have tried Christianity and it not to have been any good / real.) I'm not bashing atheism, it just makes me laugh. Children shouldn't be allowed to read them before they're old enough to make up their own minds, but I went to church without having any other religious input first and it hasn't turned me into a fanaeism-bashing, non-Christian-killing Christian. Yes, I can definitely see where you can say it's some other god than God. You get defensive when you feel it's directed at yours, and that's just what happens. There was a big to-do about The DaVinci Code for the same reason, only it was much more obvious. I wonder what will happen when everyone realizes the prequel is being made into a movie.
I've been to church my entire life and I'm not a bash-happy person. There's a point where you can be friends with others yet not agree with things like religious differences, and then there's the opposite where you won't be friends because of it.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:03 pm
Ceribri I wonder what will happen when everyone realizes the prequel is being made into a movie. Some of us look forward to watching that. :] My mom read that book (Angels and Demons) and seemed to like it, and our tastes are usually at least somewhat close when it comes to books.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:06 pm
And another thing that I thought of, reading a book isn't going to stop someone becomming a Christian if God wants them to. If what the Bible says about Salvation is true (and I believe it is) then 95% of the population of Brittain would go to hell if the world ended right now. I dunno what the statistics are for the rest of the world.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:29 pm
i actualy enjoyed the books. im not religious or un-religious. i enjoyed them for the story. much like i enjoyed the narnia books. dispite those being very christian story based. i enjoy books for the stories and characters. i dont really care what the general opinions of the author was or what they were perhaps trying to write into the book. if its a good story then hey.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:48 pm
rainyeyes29 Ceribri I wonder what will happen when everyone realizes the prequel is being made into a movie. Some of us look forward to watching that. :] My mom read that book (Angels and Demons) and seemed to like it, and our tastes are usually at least somewhat close when it comes to books.
The book was kinda....graphic.. I've read both of them and still haven't seen the movie. -sigh-
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:58 pm
Ceribri rainyeyes29 Ceribri I wonder what will happen when everyone realizes the prequel is being made into a movie. Some of us look forward to watching that. :] My mom read that book (Angels and Demons) and seemed to like it, and our tastes are usually at least somewhat close when it comes to books.
The book was kinda....graphic.. I've read both of them and still haven't seen the movie. -sigh- I haven't read either (Mom read both), but I saw the movie The Da Vinci Code. I thought it was an interesting movie. Fun.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:50 pm
rainyeyes29 Ceribri rainyeyes29 Ceribri I wonder what will happen when everyone realizes the prequel is being made into a movie. Some of us look forward to watching that. :] My mom read that book (Angels and Demons) and seemed to like it, and our tastes are usually at least somewhat close when it comes to books.
The book was kinda....graphic.. I've read both of them and still haven't seen the movie. -sigh- I haven't read either (Mom read both), but I saw the movie The Da Vinci Code. I thought it was an interesting movie. Fun. Well, both were kinda graphic at times but the first one was more frequent.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:23 am
stare Everybody's whispering now?
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The_Enigmatic_SEF Captain
|
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:18 pm
My only problem is that it is that of logic. You cannot kill something you don't believe in. Ether it exists and you can kill it, the act of which proves its existence, whether or not it ends its influence upon the universe. Or it does not exist and you cannot kill it in the first place. Actually.. belief has nothing to do with it, but if you don't believe in something you think you have killed, well thats called insanity. So I believe the entire argument is ignorant, fundamentally. It bothers me that anyone could take anyone seriously that would make an assumption of that type. It exists or it doesn't, you can ether kill it or you can't, so I hope hes joking.. seriously.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:03 pm
Eirwyn stare Everybody's whispering now? We're whispering off topic. smile
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:25 pm
I haven't QUITE read everybody's posts, but I have to comment on the first page of this topic. WTH people! Whats with the hating!
He never Kills God. He kills an impostor who, though a very powerful being, was not the real thing. Look, I get where people are coming from with this, but they are a very good series of books that questions what we think to be true. I'm not religious, but I understand why it seems like he wants to kill God. In "the Amber Spyglass" a "God" is killed. But this god in the books is not the real god! it was just a fake that was very powerful...Dust represents the spirit...but look, I'm really bad at getting my point across... There are essays for and against these books, but really, They are good books, and they should be read with an open mind.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:56 pm
Ceribri rainyeyes29 Ceribri rainyeyes29 Ceribri I wonder what will happen when everyone realizes the prequel is being made into a movie. Some of us look forward to watching that. :] My mom read that book (Angels and Demons) and seemed to like it, and our tastes are usually at least somewhat close when it comes to books.
The book was kinda....graphic.. I've read both of them and still haven't seen the movie. -sigh- I haven't read either (Mom read both), but I saw the movie The Da Vinci Code. I thought it was an interesting movie. Fun. Well, both were kinda graphic at times but the first one was more frequent.
I've read both books.
I don't think that Da Vinci Code the movie was as good as the book, reeallly watered down. I nearly screamed when I saw that Angels & Demons would be a movie. Angrily, of course.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:20 pm
Voldemort point two And another thing that I thought of, reading a book isn't going to stop someone becomming a Christian if God wants them to. If what the Bible says about Salvation is true (and I believe it is) then 95% of the population of Brittain would go to hell if the world ended right now. I dunno what the statistics are for the rest of the world. What? 95... *grumbles* Just what exactly is YOUR perception of what the Bible say salvation means? For me, salvation is a point of being forgiven. That was what Jesus did on that day. He made it possible for people to escape the bondage of hell. He broke down the doors of both physical death, and spiritual death. Why do you think the devil was so upset about it? What's my statistic? 0% Now there are three degrees of glory. I don't have the right attitude right now to talk about it. And only God have the right to say how far is too far. Yes, what I have just said means that the writer of the Golden Compass has a 100% chance as well. seffy_chan: That's what I've been saying as my evidence that he does believe. After talking with one person via e-mail it's been deduced that he's a guy that's angry with God. So he's voicing it. I just feel uncomfortable with how he's doing it. Gives me the chills. That's why I reacted the way I did. May have been rash. I admit it was. And after some time I've come to realize that I need to show love to the writer. Hate is something that he's generating. It may be something that he wants. But it's not what he needs.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:41 pm
seffy_chan My only problem is that it is that of logic. You cannot kill something you don't believe in. Ether it exists and you can kill it, the act of which proves its existence, whether or not it ends its influence upon the universe. Or it does not exist and you cannot kill it in the first place. Actually.. belief has nothing to do with it, but if you don't believe in something you think you have killed, well thats called insanity. So I believe the entire argument is ignorant, fundamentally. It bothers me that anyone could take anyone seriously that would make an assumption of that type. It exists or it doesn't, you can ether kill it or you can't, so I hope hes joking.. seriously. Just to clear this one up... there's a distinction between killing the idea of God within society and killing the character of God within a story. Pullman's novels depicts the killing of God (a character within his story). Pullman's belief is that the killing of God (an idea within our culture) would be a good thing to do. Pullman's not interested in killing the actual person of God, since he doesn't believe there's any such actual person. Thus your paradox is resolved. smile It's also worth noting here that the idea of God he's set his sights on is a very particular one. Pullman's opposed to the idea of a self-justified trancendental authority. This is why so many people, both pro and anti Pullman, tie themselves in knots trying to work out if his beef is with the person of God or with the Church. Because really, his beef is with neither, it's with a philosophical principle that finds its highest expression in the idea of God but its temporal enactment in the workings of the Church.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:57 pm
In the last book in His Dark Materials, he does have God sort of die. But it sort of seems symbolic-- Lyra saw this feeble old man stuck in some sort of sedan chair, thought he looked kind of miserable, and since he was so ancient, he just blew away when she let him out. And it turned out he was God, but for ages, he's been powerless, the angels have been in charge of everything. Basically saying that Christianity doesn't really represent what it says it does, it's just people bossing each other around under the guise of religion. So either be done with God altogether or actually take him seriously...
But, whatever. If Pullman is saying nonsense about killing God, he's a nut. How the heck would you do that? Personally, I'm an atheist, but I think other people can believe whatever they want unless it's... just not nice to people and/or they get pushy with it.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|