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High-functioning Businesswoman
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 Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:22 am
So back on topic! stare If you guys wanna debate that, make a new thread.
To answer questions:
Some people enjoy being submissive. Some people can't function without someone telling them what to do. It's almost a backwards compulsion (hence why sadomasochism is listed in the DSM-IV as a sexual disorder). People just can't will themselves to do or not do something, so having a dom helps them to function. Of course, there are rules in the BDSM community that are supposed to prevent a dom from crossing the line into abuse. Subs really aren't as powerless as they may seem, as there are safe words they are supposed to use that mean more than "no" or "stop" (since those words would be useless in a role-playing situation). However, we are commanded to love, so is it loving if the dom in a relationship denies privileges to their sub, or is constantly degrading and punishing them? The girl I spoke with said yes, since it is their wish to be treated this way as the boundaries and the authority makes them more secure.
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:30 am
And here I thought my good buddy Lethkhar was being slightly sarcastic in his first post. *shrug*
Anyhow. Back to the topic at hand. My ex wife and I were actually rather firmly established in the BDSM scene... not locally, but between ourselves. We are both Christians, and never had a bit of a problem with it. God made sex to be enjoyed, yes? We enjoyed it. There's actually a Christian BDSM dating site out there that we both joined to meet some new friends. But S&M can range from being held down while you make out to the whole whips, chains and Master scene. Nothing happens without consent, and very much of it is a mental thing. For a few hours, you're not really you. You've decided to give yourself totally over to a person you trust and respect and know isn't going to harm you. I know that it gets a bad rap (like how I laughed hysterically at finding it in the big book of psych disorders) and realize that anyone outside of the play doesn't have a clue about what happens in a person's mind. But I'm always happy to talk about one of my favorite topics. *grin*
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:12 am
See, the thing is, sex is a very large component to BDSM, but it's really more than kinky sex. If a sub were to ask their dom if they could go out with friends later, the dom would have every right to tell them no and the sub couldn't do anything about it. BDSM at its deepest level invades every aspect of a person's lifestyle. The sub becomes completely dependent upon their dom, which, staying within the lines of the BDSM community, has every right to punish, deny, and demean their sub.
An anecdote to illustrate:
The girl I spoke with told me about her friend who suffered from sever asthma attacks. He and his boyfriend were a BDSM couple. His dom systematically found out what triggered his sub's asthma attacks by causing them, and then would take him home and beat him whenever he forgot any of those triggers.
And this is perfectly condoned by the BDSM community.
How does this fit in with the way God says a relationship should be?
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:29 am
It's like Christianity in some way. . . there are always extremists who give the religion, community, or whatever a bad name.
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:54 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly So back on topic! stare If you guys wanna debate that, make a new thread. Au contraire, I believe that we are on topic. Quote: To answer questions:
Some people enjoy being submissive. Some people can't function without someone telling them what to do. It's almost a backwards compulsion (hence why sadomasochism is listed in the DSM-IV as a sexual disorder). People just can't will themselves to do or not do something, so having a dom helps them to function. Of course, there are rules in the BDSM community that are supposed to prevent a dom from crossing the line into abuse. Subs really aren't as powerless as they may seem, as there are safe words they are supposed to use that mean more than "no" or "stop" (since those words would be useless in a role-playing situation). However, we are commanded to love, so is it loving if the dom in a relationship denies privileges to their sub, or is constantly degrading and punishing them? The girl I spoke with said yes, since it is their wish to be treated this way as the boundaries and the authority makes them more secure. No one can deny you the right to choice. Sure, the "dom" can order you to do something or to not do something, and you may follow their orders. But you do that out of your own will. At some point there is a boundary where you can refuse to do something, and that is your choice. Read "What Is A Rebel?" by Albert Camus. It's a fairly short essay you can probably find online.
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:56 pm
ryuu_chan And here I thought my good buddy Lethkhar was being slightly sarcastic in his first post. *shrug* What, about how I don't care what people do behind closed doors as long as it's between consenting partners? This applies to everything for me.
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:01 pm
Fushigi na Butterfly See, the thing is, sex is a very large component to BDSM, but it's really more than kinky sex. If a sub were to ask their dom if they could go out with friends later, the dom would have every right to tell them no and the sub couldn't do anything about it. Why ever not? If the "sub" preferred to go see their friends than listen to the "dom"'s instructions, the "dom" has absolutely no right to stop them. Of course, many "subs" probably would listen to the "dom", which would be their decision. Quote: BDSM at its deepest level invades every aspect of a person's lifestyle. The sub becomes completely dependent upon their dom, which, staying within the lines of the BDSM community, has every right to punish, deny, and demean their sub. But only if the "sub" agrees to it. Quote: An anecdote to illustrate: The girl I spoke with told me about her friend who suffered from sever asthma attacks. He and his boyfriend were a BDSM couple. His dom systematically found out what triggered his sub's asthma attacks by causing them, and then would take him home and beat him whenever he forgot any of those triggers. And this is perfectly condoned by the BDSM community. How does this fit in with the way God says a relationship should be? So long as this girl's friend was ok with being beaten, and enjoyed it, then why on earth would you stop them? Now, if the "sub" was being forced into something they did not want, then they could either tell the "dom" that or leave the relationship. If the "dom", for some reason, still infringed on their will, then the police would get involved since it would then be assault and/or rape.
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:10 am
Fushigi na Butterfly See, the thing is, sex is a very large component to BDSM, but it's really more than kinky sex. If a sub were to ask their dom if they could go out with friends later, the dom would have every right to tell them no and the sub couldn't do anything about it. BDSM at its deepest level invades every aspect of a person's lifestyle. The sub becomes completely dependent upon their dom, which, staying within the lines of the BDSM community, has every right to punish, deny, and demean their sub.
An anecdote to illustrate:
The girl I spoke with told me about her friend who suffered from sever asthma attacks. He and his boyfriend were a BDSM couple. His dom systematically found out what triggered his sub's asthma attacks by causing them, and then would take him home and beat him whenever he forgot any of those triggers.
And this is perfectly condoned by the BDSM community.
How does this fit in with the way God says a relationship should be? Oh, I had some such rules for awhile with my ex. When we went out, she wasn't allowed out of arms' reach. She was allowed to speak only to me unless I gave her permission. For us, it was a play style, a love style. MOST bdsm couples don't have the 24/7 master/slave relationship. Those that do really need to work to retain it. As a switch myself (if the word itself wasn't enough of a clue, a switch is a person who likes playing both roles) I could never really get into the full-time lifestyle. But some rules are fun to play by, and either person can call it off at any time. I forget the verse and the exact wording, and it's now 3 am, but at some point doesn't God tell us to honor our spouses? Any couple that follows the formal collaring system considers themselves married. There's usually even a ceremony and all sorts of protocol to go with it. xd But the point I was trying to make earlier about sex being a gift to us is that sometimes a little bdsm is essential for a healthy relationship. It's a little more than kink, it's part of your personality. So, if you're controlling in the real world but when you go home to your spouse you want everything you think and do to be dictated, then what's wrong with that? I mean, there are a few crazy people out there who allow what would be considered abuse if they hadn't agreed to it to happen, but the point remains that they still agree to it. God wants us to have a happy relationship with our life partners, and if that involves some "yes Mistress" and thigh-high leather stilletos (on him :mr green smile then by all means let them go for it.
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:57 am
Good points, all.
@Lethkhar: The thing about choice is that you give up your choice and free will as soon as you enter the relationship (if you are a sub). You are saying "I'm now you're property." The dom can do whatever he or she wants inside the rules of the BDSM community. The sub no longer has a choice unless he or she feels their dom has crossed a line, in which case they would approach their dom with another sub present (going to someone else's dom is a big no-no in the community). If things still can't get worked out then it is brought before the community as a whole and if the dom is seen to have indeed crossed a line they are pretty much exiled from the community and the sub, if they want, can then enter a relationship with a new dom or not.
As far as the sub agreeing to anything, that's not true. I mean, I guess it is. They agree to anything the dom says simply by entering a relationship with them. The dom doesn't ask permission; the dom just does and if the sub doesn't like it then too bad.
As far as the police getting involved, this is where alot of the BDSM community has an issue. Outside society looks down on this kind of lifestyle. People's loved ones get involved because they see the sub as being in an abusive relationship where they are abused and sometimes raped, but these are all things the sub expects and agrees to simply by entering a relationship with a dom. Alot of what BDSM couples do would go against basic human rights in the eyes of larger society.
@ryuu: For most serious BDSM couples it's more than play; it's serious. They see it as the way life should be. It's a very clear hierarchy of two.
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:49 am
Fushigi na Butterfly Good points, all.
@Lethkhar: The thing about choice is that you give up your choice and free will as soon as you enter the relationship (if you are a sub). You are saying "I'm now you're property." The dom can do whatever he or she wants inside the rules of the BDSM community. The sub no longer has a choice unless he or she feels their dom has crossed a line, in which case they would approach their dom with another sub present (going to someone else's dom is a big no-no in the community). If things still can't get worked out then it is brought before the community as a whole and if the dom is seen to have indeed crossed a line they are pretty much exiled from the community and the sub, if they want, can then enter a relationship with a new dom or not. Precisely, although I think you're sort of making BDSM sound like it has some kind of doctrine or system of government...Which is false as far as I know... But the point is that the "sub" does have a choice. Sure, they may be giving their will to the "dom", but the "dom" doesn't really have it since they can stop at any time. It's more or less a form of roleplaying. Everything that the "sub" does is by their choice. They are choosing to obey the "dom"; no one is forcing them to obey. Quote: As far as the sub agreeing to anything, that's not true. I mean, I guess it is. They agree to anything the dom says simply by entering a relationship with them. The dom doesn't ask permission; the dom just does and if the sub doesn't like it then too bad. That's not true. If the "sub" doesn't like what the "dom" is doing, they have every right to end it. The "dom" has limitations, and if they don't realise those guidelines then the relationship will be very short-lived indeed. Quote: As far as the police getting involved, this is where alot of the BDSM community has an issue. Outside society looks down on this kind of lifestyle. People's loved ones get involved because they see the sub as being in an abusive relationship where they are abused and sometimes raped, but these are all things the sub expects and agrees to simply by entering a relationship with a dom. Alot of what BDSM couples do would go against basic human rights in the eyes of larger society. But the "sub" is consenting to "abuse". It's their choice. This does not violate basic human rights because any pain that is suffered is desired. The "sub" is not being forced into the relationship. It is completely their decisiona and completely their will that they be "abused".
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:11 pm
You've been told to shut up about torture and you've ignored it. I'm BALEETING the related posts.
~Cometh The Inquisitor
Crew Member of Unashamed
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Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:23 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor You've been told to shut up about torture and you've ignored it. I'm BALEETING the related posts. ~Cometh The Inquisitor
Crew Member of UnashamedTell me, to who are you talking? Because if you mean all of us, I didn't see your post, where is it?
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