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 Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:46 pm
Right and since the move is automatically a counter it should not take double dmg
But one thing needs to be altered counter moves like that should have a draw ack of exhaustion if another move is used for its attackturn after using it even if it fails.
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:47 pm
And now you've gone and lost me with that first part now... sweatdrop
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Grey Moonfang IV Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:49 pm
Jazzfox Yeah =O You got me right Grey You wouldn't say what you're gonna do beforehand, you'd wait until after the move hits, then you'd go with your move being either Counter or Mirror Coat depending That would be cheating and confusing since the Pokemon is suppose to be directed by a trainer and you can have just mirror coat or counter with other moves just not on a wobbuffet
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:52 pm
?
I admit I'm a little confused now too, but still, how would it be cheating?
And you don't HAVE to use the Counter/Mirror Coat move if you didn't want, say you only took 1 damage, maybe instead you'd try using Encore to trap them, or use Destiny Bond if you're about to KO? =O
The trainer orders the command, just like they would in the game to sue Counter
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Grey Moonfang IV Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:53 pm
Lunarsun Jazzfox Yeah =O You got me right Grey You wouldn't say what you're gonna do beforehand, you'd wait until after the move hits, then you'd go with your move being either Counter or Mirror Coat depending That would be cheating and confusing since the Pokemon is suppose to be directed by a trainer and you can have just mirror coat or counter with other moves just not on a wobbuffet I'm a tad bit confused...but I think I get it. Since it's a reflective attack, it can't really bounce anything back if it's not already prepared to do so right?
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:02 pm
Alright alright we're starting to go in circles now. Based on all the things we've said here's my idea for how Counter and Mirror Coat should work.
Counter and Mirror Coat can only be used as a Counter-Attack; and instead of hitting if you roll higher, you only hit if you roll lower. That is to say the move fails unless you get hit.
You still take Damage, but then your opponent takes x2 the damage. Additionally there should be some sort of penalty. Either getting Exhausted (and taking damage for it) easier, or alternatively a "Recharge" time like with Hyper Beam.
Since it'll only work as a Counter-Attack move, it won't take the failed counter penalty.
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Grey Moonfang IV Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:07 pm
._.
I know I'm only a consult, but that seems like a REALLY bad idea.
Just run that through in your head right now.
That means that no matter what, hurting a pokémon with Counter means you're gonna get hurt, the only way NOT to get hurt is to miss it, and it means that the pokémon with Counter has an ultimate move, if they take damage, they AUTOMATICALLY hit their opponent for double the damage they took, with no need to win any dice rolls themselves <_<
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:10 pm
Jazzfox ._. I know I'm only a consult, but that seems like a REALLY bad idea. Just run that through in your head right now. That means that no matter what, hurting a pokémon with Counter means you're gonna get hurt, the only way NOT to get hurt is to miss it, and it means that the pokémon with Counter has an ultimate move, if they take damage, they AUTOMATICALLY hit their opponent for double the damage they took, with no need to win any dice rolls themselves <_< That's why I was trying to come up with a drawback like exhaustion or recharge. Plus obviously it wouldn't work if you knocked them out first. You are right though. That is an issue, and a difficult one to work around.
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Grey Moonfang IV Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:16 pm
Is there any reason it can't work as a normal dice roll attack? <_<
I get it's risky for the user, that they first need to take damage, then they need to roll for the chance to hit back, but considering that's double damage...
Well, Lunar saw the results of that when I first used Wicked against her Animus >>
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:19 pm
Jazzfox Is there any reason it can't work as a normal dice roll attack? <_< I get it's risky for the user, that they first need to take damage, then they need to roll for the chance to hit back, but considering that's double damage... Well, Lunar saw the results of that when I first used Wicked against her Animus >> Frankly speaking I was just trying to find a compromise so that we could end this since you're taking one side on this and Lunar doesn't seem to agree. We've actually started going in a bit of a circle.
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Grey Moonfang IV Vice Captain
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Grey Moonfang IV Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:24 pm
Eh I feel like I worded that wrong. My point is I see your point of view, and I see how that works. Lunar doesn't seem to agree, she has a different perspective and I'm trying to see how we could make that work, or if we can make that work.
That way we have a solid view of both methods and can honestly decide which one is the better route to take here.
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:29 pm
Okay, alright... then how about this compromise?
Counter/Mirrorcoat are used as counter-attacks?
But, they must conform to normal dice roll rules, YOU need to outroll your opponent =O
Then, if you are successful, the opponent has hit, they swap dice, and then afterwards, you hit them for double...
Soooo, say here, prime example
Yamask throws an Energy Ball, Wicked uses Mirror Coat to counter, this instance, say Embitter rolls 3 and then Wicked rolls 8, the Mirror Coat works, so, Wicked lets herself be hit, they switch die at first...
[8+12] - [3+12] = 5 DMG
Then the Mirror Coat works, so if they're still active, they then toss double damage at the opponent, in this case, 10 =O
A pokémon using one of these two moves doesn't take double damage against a move, but will be unable to attack in their attack turn when they use this just prior?
So, to recap:
-Move is used on their defensive turn as a special Counter
-Whilst using the move, they don't take any double damage
-If they succeed, combatants switch die, damage is dealt, and then rebounded
Basically, like any normal counter, if you get it wrong, you're still gonna get hurt =O
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Grey Moonfang IV Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:33 pm
I'm confused, but only about the roll switching part seeing as that doesn't seem present in your example.
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:35 pm
=o Check the damage stats, Embitter only rolled a 3 and Wicked rolled an 8, but the Energy Ball attack suddenly switches them round
Sorry, they both have 12s which made that example confusing, lol
But yes, Mirror/Counter works, so the pokemon LETS themselves get hit and then tosses the damage back =O
How does that look?
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Grey Moonfang IV Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:39 pm
Jazzfox =o Check the damage stats, Embitter only rolled a 3 and Wicked rolled an 8, but the Energy Ball attack suddenly switches them round Sorry, they both have 12s which made that example confusing, lol But yes, Mirror/Counter works, so the pokemon LETS themselves get hit and then tosses the damage back =O How does that look? I think i get it, though the Embitter Wicked thing was a bad example since Embitter really did hit. So what you're saying it, and to use an unrelated/made up example. Say your opponent rolled 12 with an attack. Wobbuffet counters with Mirror Coat. Wobbuffet rolls 15. Mirror Coat succeeds and they swap rolls for the damage. (15 - 12) + (12 - 12) = 3 DMG The Wobbuffet takes 3 damage, then rebounds it for 2x damage. Causing 6 dmg to their opponent. Is that about right?
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