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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:26 pm
Norayr marshjazz Norayr In addition to saying all this, I believe it's wrong on these couple accounts. 1. Being a Christian and holding fast to what I've integrated to my self, I believe that this would be murder. I'm sure I don't need to go into this 'cause I'm sure you've heard this point many times. 2. Sure abortion is the woman's choice, and sure you won't have this problem/burden of a kid, but an abortion has detrimental effects on the female's body and emotions. 1. The bible is loaded full of contradicions. It even states that according to the religion. The "birth" of the baby doesn't occur until the mother feels it kick. Therefore you should be fine so long as your remove it before it kicks. CSI baby. cool (And yes I looked it up, it is true) 2. And giving birth is flowers and rainbows? Either way you look at it, it's gonna hurt. @Xyloid: Thank you for seeing my point. =D 1. Please point out to me where this is. I'd like to check it out because I've never seen that before anywhere in the Bible. 2. I'm talking about what happens after the child is aborted. Not during. Now I can't find it. sweatdrop But if your really interested I did find a few articles that defend pro-choice using the bible. http://elroy.net/ehr/abortionanswers.htmlhttp://elroy.net/ehr/abortion.htmlEver heard of post-dramatic stress disorder? Giving birth is pretty dramatic. There are tons of issues that come after a woman gives birth. A woman can die while giving birth (taking the baby with her too) just as fast as she can die on the operation table. Dieing is a pretty emotional thing. I have wondered that too. Your killing babies just because you have your menstal cycle. I'm such a bad person. xP
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:30 pm
marshjazz Norayr marshjazz Norayr In addition to saying all this, I believe it's wrong on these couple accounts. 1. Being a Christian and holding fast to what I've integrated to my self, I believe that this would be murder. I'm sure I don't need to go into this 'cause I'm sure you've heard this point many times. 2. Sure abortion is the woman's choice, and sure you won't have this problem/burden of a kid, but an abortion has detrimental effects on the female's body and emotions. 1. The bible is loaded full of contradicions. It even states that according to the religion. The "birth" of the baby doesn't occur until the mother feels it kick. Therefore you should be fine so long as your remove it before it kicks. CSI baby. cool (And yes I looked it up, it is true) 2. And giving birth is flowers and rainbows? Either way you look at it, it's gonna hurt. @Xyloid: Thank you for seeing my point. =D 1. Please point out to me where this is. I'd like to check it out because I've never seen that before anywhere in the Bible. 2. I'm talking about what happens after the child is aborted. Not during. Now I can't find it. sweatdrop But if your really interested I did find a few articles that defend pro-choice using the bible. http://elroy.net/ehr/abortionanswers.htmlhttp://elroy.net/ehr/abortion.htmlEver heard of post-dramatic stress disorder? Giving birth is pretty dramatic. There are tons of issues that come after a woman gives birth. A woman can die while giving birth (taking the baby with her too) just as fast as she can die on the operation table. I have wondered that too. Your killing babies just because you have your menstal cycle. I'm such a bad person. xP Exactly.
Baby killer.
D:<
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:34 pm
AmErIcAnSyKo marshjazz Norayr marshjazz Norayr In addition to saying all this, I believe it's wrong on these couple accounts. 1. Being a Christian and holding fast to what I've integrated to my self, I believe that this would be murder. I'm sure I don't need to go into this 'cause I'm sure you've heard this point many times. 2. Sure abortion is the woman's choice, and sure you won't have this problem/burden of a kid, but an abortion has detrimental effects on the female's body and emotions. 1. The bible is loaded full of contradicions. It even states that according to the religion. The "birth" of the baby doesn't occur until the mother feels it kick. Therefore you should be fine so long as your remove it before it kicks. CSI baby. cool (And yes I looked it up, it is true) 2. And giving birth is flowers and rainbows? Either way you look at it, it's gonna hurt. @Xyloid: Thank you for seeing my point. =D 1. Please point out to me where this is. I'd like to check it out because I've never seen that before anywhere in the Bible. 2. I'm talking about what happens after the child is aborted. Not during. Now I can't find it. sweatdrop But if your really interested I did find a few articles that defend pro-choice using the bible. http://elroy.net/ehr/abortionanswers.htmlhttp://elroy.net/ehr/abortion.htmlEver heard of post-dramatic stress disorder? Giving birth is pretty dramatic. There are tons of issues that come after a woman gives birth. A woman can die while giving birth (taking the baby with her too) just as fast as she can die on the operation table. I have wondered that too. Your killing babies just because you have your menstal cycle. I'm such a bad person. xP Exactly.
Baby killer.
D:< Now I get it. PMS = hurt PMS = killing babies Hurt = Bad Therefore: Killing babies = hurt And since hurt = bad Killing babies = bad. I'm going straight to hell. 3nodding
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:16 pm
Aakiyana
Then i finally come to myself. Me, being 17....If I got pregnant now, I'd most likely get an abortion myself. I also probably wouldn't have any qualms about it either.
I was actually in a situation where I had to start considering what would happen if I was pregnant.
Abortion was pretty much at the top of the short list.
I mean, I'm nearly 19. I'm still in college, with no plans of getting married anytime soon. We were careful, but that doesn't mean it's not impossible to get pregnant. In the end, it was a scare, but nothing more. But now I know what I would do in a situation like that.
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:15 pm
I am moderate on the situation. I believe that there are some situations that are due to just plain laziness, i.e. if an unwanted pregnancy is the result of a couple's utter disregard for contraceptives and figures that if they get pregnant, they can just abort it, I think that is wrong, but if hypothetically a woman is raped and a pregnancy is a result of that rape, then I understand where there may be a want for an abortion. Abortion should not be used as a means to get rid of your mistakes, you could always put the child up for adoption or find an individual that would love to have children, but is not able to, to raise your child. Abortion should not be abused.
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:33 pm
marshjazz Now I get it.
PMS = hurt
PMS = killing babies
Hurt = Bad
Therefore:
Killing babies = hurt
And since hurt = bad
Killing babies = bad.
I'm going straight to hell. 3nodding hmm.. never thought of it so simply before. 3nodding I like your enlightenment upon the situation lol. And I not pro-choice, honestly, you want to have unprotected sex, deal with the consequences. Don`t kill an innocent life because of your mistake... but there is always exception to it, though i do not want to go into deal with it
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:16 pm
Personally I am Pro Choice for political reasons. The foundations of this countries system was the freedom of choice on who should rule. It should not nor should it ever be up to a council, organization, legal system that is predominantly male to decide whether or not a woman has the right to an abortion. Men could never understand the situation of the female in ANY case, and it is insensitive to those who have been raped or battered to be forced to have a child and bear it as a constant reminder of the terrible man that would dare to hurt them. Also, to revoke that right that was deemed constitutional under Roe vs. Wade is in my opinion a small step to revoking other constitutional rights such as freedom of religion, speech, press. I won't even go into the contradictions of religions, as I have read them. I will however reiterate that Christianity has had so much censoring and misinterpretations over the years that I personally don't know if Jesus said half the things he said.
However for those of you who think Pro Life is the choice for religious reasons let me relate to you a story in my native Colombia. It is true and it is the subject of a lot of debate within the Church to this day months after the events.
A young girl of only eleven years of age became pregnant because her stepfather had sexually abused her for many years. Eleven years old, her body was not strong enough to support the child, her economic situation was to say the least terrible, she is after all eleven not even old enough for credit. She begs for an abortion, anything so that she may continue to live as a child, not as a child raising a child. The Church denied her the option and because the government of Colombia is closely linked to the Church they summarily said the same to the girl.
The young girl had the child, she can now never again have a child of her own because of the constant abuse from her step father and because of the complications of such a young birth. She will never be able to live a full life again, she will never be able to give the person who she loves a child because of the decisions of a Church. She will never finish her education, she will always have to look at the man that raped her for many years and say to her child that he is the father. Now ask yourself, does this innocent girl who had not even a say in the matter deserve such a fate? Does it not say in Christianity's Gospel that he who commits rape must be killed? Where is religion then? Where is the conscience and prompt actions of the Church in such a case as to the position of the rapist? To say that you are Pro Life because of your religious beliefs is to say that you accept all of your religions laws not some. Remember that before you say that a woman should have the child despite rape or abuse.
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:27 pm
fujinakaheero marshjazz Now I get it.
PMS = hurt
PMS = killing babies
Hurt = Bad
Therefore:
Killing babies = hurt
And since hurt = bad
Killing babies = bad.
I'm going straight to hell. 3nodding hmm.. never thought of it so simply before. 3nodding I like your enlightenment upon the situation lol. And I not pro-choice, honestly, you want to have unprotected sex, deal with the consequences. Don`t kill an innocent life because of your mistake... but there is always exception to it, though i do not want to go into deal with it Um.. When a woman goes through her menstral cycle, she's disposing of (killing) an innocent (potential) life..
A fetus, I consider to be the same thing. Potential life.
Scientifically, there are different levels of "aliveness" (for lack of a better word..). A plant is alive.. But not as alive as a monkey.
I consider a fetus to be in the plant area.. No conscience.. No feeling.. Not aware.
So if you think killing fetuses is wrong, then think of all those poor innocent blades of grass you cut in half every time you mow your lawn. You damn heartless bastards. D:<
neutral neutral
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:38 am
Choice. 3nodding
Because people CHOSE to have intercourse. And CHOSE to take the risk of making a baby. So why can't they not CHOOSE not to have it after?
They're already on a roll. ¦D
But seriously. What right do other people have on what the owner of the fetus want to do with their property.
I refer parent's as owners and fetus as property since a fetus is not yet considered a living organism for it has not yet developed consciousness, or even a complete physiology.
That's my 2g on the topic. :'D
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:36 am
Quite honestly, I'd have to go with choice. =0
I think it's a woman's choice or the couple's choice to decide or not after all if they want to have a baby. A church or government or whatever the hell elsewise shouldn't be allowed to tell them otherwise.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:37 am
Genesis Rockhide Because people CHOSE to have intercourse. And CHOSE to take the risk of making a baby. So why can't they not CHOOSE not to have it after? They're already on a roll. ¦D rofl
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:39 am
I vote pro-choice, because a woman should be able to decide what happens with her body. For those who are pro-life for religious reasons, I argue that pro-choice doesn't mean a woman has to have an abortion - the religious can simply not choose to have one.
I do, however, believe that there should be a program that a woman going through an abortion should have to enroll in which would include brief counseling to make sure it's really the decision she wants, to inform/reiterate birth control options in case the pregnancy resulted from unprotected sex, as well as post-abortion counseling to help come to terms with - and understand the reasons for - the mental stress that can result.
Bottom line, I believe that women should have the right to choose, even if they don't choose to have an abortion, and that measures should be taken to ensure that an abortion is the LAST option rather than the only one (aka abstinence, birth control, adoption, etc).
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:42 am
Oh, and also: it's entirely possible to become pregnant even if you have protected sex, so please don't limit conclusions to "stupid" (my words) people having unprotected sex - I know many a pill baby
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:24 am
Xyloid It's okay Chris. I'll be around to keep debating: But for when you get back, I'll keep going. xD
Women who are raped will never forget the fact that they were raped, and how bad the experience was. Most the time it's by people they know and TRUST, so how are they supposed to trust anyone else? Let alone with their child. Even if she does give the child up and he becomes a very respected member of society, she isn't going to be able to face the child or even the thought of the child without thinking 'this child was produced unwillingly.'
Ok, let's see. Like I said before, rape is a very tricky case for abortion for pro-life (or me at least). Now I haven't been able to go too deep into this subject, but I'll try keep things going. So now that you've given me this response, I'm pretty sure you'd say that abortion is the only reasonable end in this situation. Ok. Say you did run the abortion. The baby's dead and the mother is child-free. This in no way has alleviated the mother of her memory of the rape. If anything at all, she'll remember this just about the same if she had the baby. After all, abortion isn't something you have everyday. Then there's the emotional and psychological trouble the abortion brings. In the society we live, people don't really talk about their troubles and whatnot. So instead of sharing her anxiety, fear, shame, etc, etc. She'll bury all her emotions which later will come back far greater than before. Ok, let's say she keeps the kid, but doesn't put him/her up for adoption. She can raise the kid on her own (but we all know how stressful that can be). If she really needs to take care of something other than the child, she can have her mother look after the kid. And I know that most grandmas love little kids. Even though it may be difficult to accept the rape-baby at first, they would grow fond of the little guy after a while. Now let's say that she does put the kid up for adoption. Forgive my ignorance, but isn't it going to be more important for her to give up her child rather than clinging on saying because of this traumatic experience of rape I had, I'm not going to trust anybody at all with this infant I have? I mean, she's going to have no means of support. So it's going to drag herself and her kid down. So in the best interest of everyone (best interest being keeping both of them alive and reasonably healthy), she'll have to give her child away. It's like one of those bandage moments. If you do it quick enough, it's not going to hurt so much. About that condom comment you made. Sperm/semen isn't a human. It's just the guy's DNA and stuff. So there's no killing of any kind (aside from killing the sperm) happening there. It's when the sperm fertilizes the egg that it's human.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:46 am
Okay your 3 choices are keep, adopt, abort. Abort - It would help. That first year is crucial to getting over any tramatic experience. You actually think that someone who doesn't want a child should have to pay for someone else actions. I mean 9 months and 5+ hours of labour, is it really worth it? Keep - You damn right I would keep the sucker if I was forced to give birth to it. It's my trophy. whee Adopt - that seems to work out perfectly for everyone, or does it? Adopted babies have to deal with the fact that their mother didn't want them. It would certainly be hard on the kid later on. And then maybe finding your mother, and your mother explaining to you that she didn't want you because you were a rape baby. Well that right there brings back all the memories. Quote: It's like one of those bandage moments. If you do it quick enough, it's not going to hurt so much. I love this line. It's true. So why exactly should she have to go through 9 months and 5+ hours of labour instead of "killing" it while it has no consiousness? A mother can die in child birth, don't think the shiny fancy equipment stops that. The whole womens body basically is remade during pregnancy. I mean think about it, you gain about 100 pounds. Your basically a beached whale. You can't even walk you waddle like a pengiun! Why should the mother have to do this instead of ripping that bandaga of 2/3 months after the pregnancy instead of a year later. How would your god like it if that baby grew up to be a serial killer and rapist because of how screwed up it is, from it's mother being to that she wasn't able to get rid of it? If it never asks for forgiveness, well to bad, it's going to hell. Maybe you should have just killed it before it blew up a building that had thousands of inosent people in it? Or robbed that bank, because his/her family is poor? All you get with birthing the child is another year of pain and suffering to remember for the rest of your life. That sure helps her get over the experience. Life should be more like dimonds, closely monitored and regulated. Dimonds are rare becuase only so many are let on to the market. The dimond owners have millions of dimonds stored in vaults. This assures that the get the maximun amount of money for each dimond. The more you have of something the less it is worth, basic economics. So 6 billion people that sounds like alot to me. What is one tortured life worth? Why can't people make their own desicions? Why can't the church get out of politics? But sperm are potential life. Same arguement. Stop ejactulating you baby killer. xD
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