Welcome to Gaia! ::

Another old thread that I'm gonna bring up :]

Plants don't have central nervous system. That only means they don't feel pain AS WE KNOW IT. I do think they feel pain, just not the kind that humans and animals do. And about the plant-killer thing:
-You're killing more plants as omnivore
-Can I live without eating meat and all that? I can. Can I live without eating plants? I can't. If I could, I would.

you're totally right. i luv tht view. and since my mom stopped letting me be a vegetarian (*sigh* long story) when i was one for 2 yrs straight, the more i learn the less i can stand not being a vegetarian anymore. stare

to the anorexic comment I'd toss this link at them(i have an html copy saved on my bberry in case they try to throw it at me, and even if there's no signal, I can still show them this, LOL.
http://www.pcrm.org/news/release090402.html

I think that most people who use the plant argument are just instigators, not idiots.

It's not that plants can't tell when they are being hurt. Sure they don't have a central nervous system like us, but they have plenty of mechanisms to try to repair their tissues when they are hurt. They also put a lot of energy into avoiding predators like us. For example, the volatile oils in herbs which we enjoy so much are actually meant to deter predators (and it usually works for non-humans...) and many plant have structural defences, such as thorns. It costs a plant a lot of energy to invest in producing defences!

If you take off a ring of bark around a tree, the tree will no longer be able to transport water to its leaves and the leaves will no longer be able to send products of photosynthesis back down to the roots. The tree will die.
Would it be immoral for you to go into your back yard right now and do this to a tree? Why?

I prefer to avoid causing harm to other things that can feel pain. For me that only counts for things that have more than just a physiological response to pain, because even plants do that. Some higher processing, such as emotional response, must be present. I don't think that killing another thing that can feel pain is "wrong" per say though, i just don't like it. It's the way nature works, and it can't be helped. Things suffer and die all the time, even when we aren't doing it.

Veganism is such a personal choice thing for me.

Yes, okay, plants do feel pain. They communicate. It's different than how we respond to hurt or communicate,
but it's there and we're still learning about it. Still, veganism harms fewer plants than an omnivorous diet does.

But my father will NOT stop throwing this arguement at me. He's a self-proclaimed health freak
but is far more than just unsupportive of my transition to veganism. He doesn't care why I chose
to be vegan, either, so disregards it as a health choice. Apparently I'm going to stop
shaving my legs and run amok with hippies, etc. He's not stupid, he just doesn't listen
to reason and always wants to be right.

Even with all of the points that have been brought up in this thread, he maintains that my lifestyle
is worse than his for an uncountable number of reasons. And he's a total instigator. I just want to be
healthy, and as harmless as I can reasonably be. But it's arguments like this that make it so hard to
explain to people what I'm doing and why. Because they seem to take it as a personal attack.
And get defensive.

It's so discouraging.

Anyways, I just wanted to say thanks for this thread, and all your personal thoughts.
Life would be insane if I didn't have a place like this to go to listen to reason and find support.

I've had so many things thrown at me. I've gotten the whole "plant" thing once, and my friend even debated with me on it. I told them that there's no need for plants to have pain, and if they did have pain censors, then they probably would have evolved by now so that they could move. Pain censors for plants would just be inconvenient in every way. But this was when I was debating.

When people usually tell me that plants have feelings too, I usually say that I at least try to do minimal damage. They just go chowing down on their animals, but I at least try to inflict minimal pain in the world. Being vegetarian or vegan is about trying to inflict the least amount of pain. Plus, the first step to not killing things would be to at LEAST not kill things in the same family as you. Plants aren't even in the Animal family, so right now I'm going to focus on not being cruel to my relatives. Usually, no matter what you say, though, people will still try to fight with you on the whole "plant" thing. Nothing you ever say they will accept as an answer (or, at least, this is true in my own experience).