Welcome to Gaia! ::

Except I'm not actually going to kick a puppy. I just said I could.

And if you're going to reply back with, "aha~! so you can't go outside your personality" then we're just gonna keep going in circles, because I refuse to hurt an animal just to spite you. I guess, in either case, I lose, because by proving you wrong I'm proving you right and by not doing anything .... well, you see my point. Unfortunately I don't see yours. Even if it's limited, we do have free will, because it's all about the individual choices and decisions.

I'm really not digging this 'no free will' stuff.

and I don't think that you are the sole product of your genes and your environment. That would be an atheistic stance to take.

I believe God doesn't really control your environment, I mean He kind of has to, to a point, but He doesn't write your life.

Likewise, I believe God doesn't pick and choose what genes you have, he just guides it in a certain direction.

Just like I believe God is guiding the process of evolution, not making instant people or creating people in a way that it looks like a pattern.

If God were constantly fine-tuning the universe, there would be ability to go outside God's plan and no free will and that would make a good portion of the Bible completely bogus.

God does, however, exercise his complete authority over your soul. If you're an atheist, then this doesn't really matter to you because what I'm describing as a soul is really just synapses firing and self-awareness creating delusions of intangible forces influencing personality when it's really just genetics, environment, and hormone levels. But a soul as I understand it is the thing that makes you who you are on the deepest levels and will never die, etc. etc. and also serves as the place where God resides within you.

And of course if you believe free will is an illusion then you cannot be a Christian because that's pretty much the basis of Christianity, and so it's kind of pointless unless you're arguing with someone who you can back into a corner with that argument and you just like watching them scramble.

Your genetics, environment, and your soul.



Just because God can do things doesn't mean He does.
I haven't really given it much thought, I just happen to believe something has to be left up to chance.

Really? How does He do that?

He's God. He does it however He damn well pleases.



No one in this thread, obviously. My grandma does believe that.



See above.



Yeah, yeah. You're talking to the girl of little opinion at the moment. I don't have a stance on the ethics of hell and God's plan because I don't really believe in Hell.

Monotheist. That's about as far as I've gotten.

A Christian might say that you always have the option of doing differently, you just don't. But don't let me speak for you if you have a better argument.



Samuel L. Jackson.



Working to do what?

Okay, there is no free will, but there is the illusion of free will which is very important. Wait this sounds familiar, oh yeah IT'S CALVINISM.
Mmm. Calvinism.

I don't believe in hell.


But who determined the laws of probability? Is it truly random if you define the exact rules by which it's selected?



No, I just like arguing. sweatdrop

That doesn't answer the question.



Mr. Crane chooses them.

No. Biologically the egg contains some genes from teh mommy and the sperm contain some genes from teh daddy and DNA unzips and rezips and all that and VIOLA.

and God can subtly influence any process he wants in any way shape or form because he's God.



Perhaps I have been mollified but it was a rhetorical question that I didn't feel like answering.

No problem, really. I just think both Calvinism and the concept of Hell are essentially flawed and I like discussing/debating things related to theology because I might just change my mind.

And who determines your parents' genes?



So the accepted doctrine of Christianity has a big hole in it. Frankly I'm shocked. This has never been known to happen before, and I think it will revolutionize the way Christians think. This is the first time a logical argument against Christianity has ever been put forth, and wow, it is so convincing I'm sure that everyone should read this. You should publish.

Sorry, replace everything after 'has a big hole in it' with 'I'm not surprised.' Stress makes me sarcastic.



You lol'd.



It's kind of late, and I've been getting up at about 5 this whole week, so maybe it's just getting to me but I have absolute no frigging idea why I said "That still didn't answer the question." I've read back a few posts and I'm still confused.

Take a read through what Jesus has to say on the matter. He essentially tells us that God is completely in control AND that humans have free will. When he talks about them both, he speaks like there's no contradiction. Just because God puts us in a particular place and time with a particular personality doesn't mean that we'll never be exposed to Him or His teachings. I mean, all the athiests and other religions in this guild are here debating it... and being exposed to doctrine all at once. And still choosing otherwise. This makes perfect sense to me.

I don't follow your logic. You can't control something while it has free will. It's like making a robot and programming it to serve drinks at a resaurant. If someone says "Why don't you ever let your robot have fun and play basketball?" And you respond "It can go play basketball ny time it wants, it just chooses not to." But the problem is that it only knows how to serve drinks.