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Hey guys, we should totally base all pro-choicer mentaility and actions just off this lowly single, uninformed, most likely a troll, person and use it as a basis in all of our arguments because this guy is what a true pro-choicer is!!!

biggrin CWHUTIDIDTHAR!?

And hell no Andy! You're only free if someone else is making your choices for you, when you're a woman. It's different for men, they're allowed to make their own choices...but women are subject to their masters. Don't you know that?

I'm not sure if what you're saying is that it's stupid to say "keep your legs closed" or that it's really a solution. Abstinence is unrealistic. Few people do it. You can advocate it all you like and hand out those little cards for people who pledge to save it but nine times out of ten they'll punch the card in when they lose their virginity and hand it right back.

Isn't it odd that my mother, my aunts, my sister and myself all managed that seemingly impossible ideal? Granted, the older generation all grew up in a time when sex before marriage was frowned on, but my sister and I weren't. I grew up in the 60s and 70s. I could have done what I wanted, but my parents taught me self-respect and self-restraint. As far as I'm concerned, all of us brought a very special gift to our respective husbands.

I can think of reasons but, to keep this from derailing, I'm just going to say that if we want to continue this line of thought, someone should make a separate thread about it. razz

As far as the direct question goes, there is no empirical statistical evidence either way, I don't believe. It's hard to get good results on this, as the only way you could really gather statistics is through survey, and it's not the most reliable method. But, again as I said, it would be even harder (nigh impossible) to get completely neutral results that say whether people would naturally have premarital sex if there was no peer pressure either way. To my knowledge, premarital sex and even somewhat promiscuous sex has been put forward by young people as a group as being at least somewhat "okay" since, what, the 70s? Free love and all that.

And, on topic, it is not unreasonable to say "Don't have sex if you are not prepared to have children," even if sex is to be considered perfectly acceptable before marriage. Pregnancy is a result, arguably -the- result, of sex. So, if you are going to have sex, no matter how much protection you are using, you should be aware that there is a chance you will get pregnant, and "I was wearing a condom/taking BC/sex is not immoral" are not acceptable arguments for why you "have" to have an abortion.

So, in this more explained sense, "Keep your legs closed" is not a totally unreasonable argument. It's just a little too short and sharp.

"My best friend needs a little bit of forgiveness" wah wah wah.. Forgiveness is ADOPTION. Giving someone else the gift of a child is one of the greatest joys there is.. MY best friend is adopted... There are countless families who want children (I can think of two just off of the top of my head) that would have loved that child with their life. Also, there are articles and loads of info stating that abortion affects future pregnancy attempts. That best friend isn't going to like the inability to have children when she's ready for them and is going to become another person who wants to adopt, but can't because their baby was aborted by a mother convinced by her best friend to have an abortion.