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 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:16 pm
F. Fritzi nathan_ngl I really don't care if they march or not, they have their right to do what they like, whenever they like. Until they show disrespect for the holiness of Jerusalem, that is. Marching is fine, but what point exactly are they trying to make by marching through Jerusalem? There are many, MANY other places, and they know that it will cause such an outrage, so why go through with it? Just for spite? Because they have the right to. They have the right to, but why do it if it causes such an outrage? Apparently Jerusalem has some kind of importance to them, but... is it really worth it? We all know the ultra-othrodox won't take this sort of thing lying down, so why even bother? Tel-aviv seems good enough to me... By wanting to do it in Jerusalem, it just caused a huge rip in the nation that is really not needed right now... sad .
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Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:30 pm
nathan_ngl By wanting to do it in Jerusalem, it just caused a huge rip in the nation that is really not needed right now... sad . Oh yeah, the gays are just destroying Israel. Next we will see a civil war break out because of them gays. rolleyes
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Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:38 pm
Donovinhs Knight nathan_ngl By wanting to do it in Jerusalem, it just caused a huge rip in the nation that is really not needed right now... sad . Oh yeah, the gays are just destroying Israel. Next we will see a civil war break out because of them gays. rolleyes I agree. I highly doubt that just because it was held somewhere else would have meant it was more acceptable either. I don't think one march will tear the country in 2.
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Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:32 pm
Donovinhs Knight F. Fritzi ויקיפדיה בעוד בתל אביב המצעד כיום נושא אופי המוני, מיני וממוסחר, המצעד בירושלים קטן יותר בהיקפו, ונושא אופי מחאתי ופוליטי. בתל אביב צעדו בשנת 2005 קרוב ל100,000 איש, ובירושלים צעדו קרוב ל-10,000. Wuzzat say and who quoter? sweatdrop the quote is from wikipedia: "while this days the parade in tel aviv has a vulgar, sexual and commercialized character, the parade in jerusalem is smaller by extents and has a political-protest character. in tel aviv almost 100'000 people marched at 2005, and in jerusale, only around 10'000" *translation is a bit unclear, i hope you understand*
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Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:09 pm
its cazy what some of the orthadox rabbis said (kind of sound like something an extrenme christian would say or the rebublicans in the U.S.) and i agre with nathen as long as it just marching and doesnt disrespect anything holy in jeruselem
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Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:48 pm
i think a local jewish paper put it quite nicely:
the gay community has a democratic right to parade, but the orthadox community, by that same democratic right, is entitled to oppose it. furthermore, the right to parade hinges on the condition that it not create civil unrest- something which, by nature, it cannot avoid.
...
or maybe the words "dor hamabul" mean something to you?
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:26 am
nathan_ngl F. Fritzi nathan_ngl I really don't care if they march or not, they have their right to do what they like, whenever they like. Until they show disrespect for the holiness of Jerusalem, that is. Marching is fine, but what point exactly are they trying to make by marching through Jerusalem? There are many, MANY other places, and they know that it will cause such an outrage, so why go through with it? Just for spite? Because they have the right to. They have the right to, but why do it if it causes such an outrage? Apparently Jerusalem has some kind of importance to them, but... is it really worth it? We all know the ultra-othrodox won't take this sort of thing lying down, so why even bother? Tel-aviv seems good enough to me... By wanting to do it in Jerusalem, it just caused a huge rip in the nation that is really not needed right now... sad . The outrage isn't their fault, it's the rabbis' fault. Why wasn't there an outrage last time? And the year before that? And the year before that? And the year before that? There was another one before that, you know. For some reason people have all of a sudden decided they're offended by gay people protesting. They can stay away from those 4 streets or so for one day in the year. Instead they chose violence. The gays didn't cause the riots, they did. And they should take responsibility for it.
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:30 am
ZonkotheSane i think a local jewish paper put it quite nicely: the gay community has a democratic right to parade, but the orthadox community, by that same democratic right, is entitled to oppose it. furthermore, the right to parade hinges on the condition that it not create civil unrest- something which, by nature, it cannot avoid. ... or maybe the words "dor hamabul" mean something to you? You can oppose it. It's perfectly fine. You CAN'T encourage people to kill innocents. You CAN'T burn down city property because you're upset. You CAN'T injure dozens of police officers. You CAN'T attack your mayor because you don't like what he does. You CAN'T ignore the law. Apparently, in Israel you can.
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:44 pm
F. Fritzi ZonkotheSane i think a local jewish paper put it quite nicely: the gay community has a democratic right to parade, but the orthadox community, by that same democratic right, is entitled to oppose it. furthermore, the right to parade hinges on the condition that it not create civil unrest- something which, by nature, it cannot avoid. ... or maybe the words "dor hamabul" mean something to you? You can oppose it. It's perfectly fine. You CAN'T encourage people to kill innocents. You CAN'T burn down city property because you're upset. You CAN'T injure dozens of police officers. You CAN'T attack your mayor because you don't like what he does. You CAN'T ignore the law. Apparently, in Israel you can. *watches as the point fades into the distance*
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:34 pm
F. Fritzi You can oppose it. It's perfectly fine. You CAN'T encourage people to kill innocents. You CAN'T burn down city property because you're upset. You CAN'T injure dozens of police officers. You CAN'T attack your mayor because you don't like what he does. You CAN'T ignore the law. Apparently, in Israel you can. Nobody said they were right by what they did. There is are two sides to the argument, each one had an equal statement. The fact is, if they hadn't done all that mess, the other side would have won. So... There you have it, that's what made them riot all over the place. I am not saying their solution was right, I am saying why it had to happen (in their opinion).
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:30 am
nathan_ngl F. Fritzi You can oppose it. It's perfectly fine. You CAN'T encourage people to kill innocents. You CAN'T burn down city property because you're upset. You CAN'T injure dozens of police officers. You CAN'T attack your mayor because you don't like what he does. You CAN'T ignore the law. Apparently, in Israel you can. Nobody said they were right by what they did. There is are two sides to the argument, each one had an equal statement. The fact is, if they hadn't done all that mess, the other side would have won. So... There you have it, that's what made them riot all over the place. I am not saying their solution was right, I am saying why it had to happen (in their opinion). They chose it and they have made a very big mistake. The rest of the population in Israel is pissed off at them anyhow, and that wasn't helping. It wasn't very Jewish of them, by the way, to do what they did. If they had just protested against it, I wouldn't respect it very much but I wouldn't consider it unjust, as I do now.
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:57 pm
F. Fritzi nathan_ngl F. Fritzi You can oppose it. It's perfectly fine. You CAN'T encourage people to kill innocents. You CAN'T burn down city property because you're upset. You CAN'T injure dozens of police officers. You CAN'T attack your mayor because you don't like what he does. You CAN'T ignore the law. Apparently, in Israel you can. Nobody said they were right by what they did. There is are two sides to the argument, each one had an equal statement. The fact is, if they hadn't done all that mess, the other side would have won. So... There you have it, that's what made them riot all over the place. I am not saying their solution was right, I am saying why it had to happen (in their opinion). They chose it and they have made a very big mistake. The rest of the population in Israel is pissed off at them anyhow, and that wasn't helping. It wasn't very Jewish of them, by the way, to do what they did. If they had just protested against it, I wouldn't respect it very much but I wouldn't consider it unjust, as I do now. Well hey, what can you expect from a group that throws rocks at people that drive on shabbat? sweatdrop . I agree with that shabbat is important, but I disagree with how they try to enforce it. The same goes for the Gay march. I agree with the principal, but not how they attempted to solve the issue. Indeed, like you said, they only made the way people feel about them get worse... I only wish they'd have found another way...
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:36 am
Okay I'll stop keeping this thread alive, and the last thing I have left to say is.
"A religion is something that teaches understand, talerance, and open mindedness. A religion isn't something intolerant, it isn 't something close minded, and it isn't something that doesn't understand other things."
So these men in my eyes weren't doing justice to Judaism. So now I am done.
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:12 pm
I wish that were true... Look at what Muslims do in the name of religion and what Christians did and still do (in not as violent ways mostly). I'm not blaming religion, but it serves many intolerant people as a good excuse to go bash someone.
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Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:11 pm
YvetteEmilieDupont Okay I'll stop keeping this thread alive, and the last thing I have left to say is. "A religion is something that teaches understand, talerance, and open mindedness. A religion isn't something intolerant, it isn 't something close minded, and it isn't something that doesn't understand other things." So these men in my eyes weren't doing justice to Judaism. So now I am done. I completely agree 3nodding F. Fritzi I wish that were true... Look at what Muslims do in the name of religion and what Christians did and still do (in not as violent ways mostly). I'm not blaming religion, but it serves many intolerant people as a good excuse to go bash someone. You're right, certain people simply abuse religion, which is sad... They are not tollerant, nor open minded... Which is exactly the opposite of what a religious group should be... On a side note - There are even people in Israel to go so far as to not include them in a minyan. They feel that this group effectively forfeited it's right to be in "klal yisroel". I disagree with this analogy, even if I think what they did was wrong. Just because a kid misbehaved doesn't mean I will knock him out of the congregation. You've both made a good point... I can only hope that something like this never happens again... sweatdrop
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