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 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:05 pm
Allythea Yes, I read your wall of text. It is very intellectual and very eloquent, but as a working mom I may not have time to quote every last sentence to debate. I will try. I hope. okey, and no worries.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:24 pm
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:42 pm
I believe that God manifested himself in three forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Though I do believe that if we went to Heaven we could see God, and Jesus seperate.
Matthew 3:17
And lo a voice from Heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
So there must be a visible Father and Son
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:27 pm
Quote: Matthew 3:16-17 (NLT) 16After his baptism, as Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and settling on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, and I am fully pleased with him." At his baptism all three forms of God where presence. God in heaven spoke, Jesus (God in form of man) being baptized, and God's spirit. All three are separate and reach play a role but all three are one. Like me. I'm a sister, a daughter, and an aunt. I play three different roles but I'm still one being. I wouldn't treat my niece the way I would my sister. And I wouldn't listen to my niece the way I do my parents. But I'm still all three. But there are distinct differences between each role. But all me.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:40 pm
Imotoku I believe that God manifested himself in three forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Though I do believe that if we went to Heaven we could see God, and Jesus seperate. Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from Heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. So there must be a visible Father and Son According to Revelation 4:2 one sits on the throne in the midst of Heaven. Jesus also tells who has seen Him has seen the Father [for which I must include, in some portions of the Bible it tells Jesus sat down on the right hand of God, if this was literal, then why is there only one throne in the midst of Heaven? Also, in Acts 2:25 King David tells God is on his right hand, surely David is not above God]. Telling both manifestations are indeed of the same origin, also in John 14:15-17 the Holy Spirit is of these two manifestation, of the same "source". Being one LORD according to Deuteronomy 6:4. In John 2:25 Jesus would not have man testify of man, for which He was also [100% man and God [scriptural reference 1 Timothy 3:16, Colossians 2:9]], due to Jesus' knowing what is in man. If everything was shown to come of Himself [according to the eyes of man], His sightful nature [as human, appearance], they could only testify of a human. Which Jesus told He would not have them do.
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Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:57 pm
People can respond. But for now I am giving up. I need to research more material [mainly the last link I provided]. Also reserching in responding to other portions of text on the first page.
Though things widened in the debate material more than desired, what has been said has been said. And in so, I have some searching and reading to do.
[All in all, it'll probably only be a couple of days]
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:02 pm
Well kiddies [with the exception of Allythea, xd] I'm back.
Instead of addressing I am just going to base off of mainly my second last post [not including this one].
Any counter arguments?
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:47 pm
Skiddishfit Imotoku I believe that God manifested himself in three forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Though I do believe that if we went to Heaven we could see God, and Jesus seperate. Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from Heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. So there must be a visible Father and Son According to Revelation 4:2 one sits on the throne in the midst of Heaven. Jesus also tells who has seen Him has seen the Father [for which I must include, in some portions of the Bible it tells Jesus sat down on the right hand of God, if this was literal, then why is there only one throne in the midst of Heaven? Also, in Acts 2:25 King David tells God is on his right hand, surely David is not above God]. Telling both manifestations are indeed of the same origin, also in John 14:15-17 the Holy Spirit is of these two manifestation, of the same "source". Being one LORD according to Deuteronomy 6:4. In John 2:25 Jesus would not have man testify of man, for which He was also [100% man and God [scriptural reference 1 Timothy 3:16, Colossians 2:9]], due to Jesus' knowing what is in man. If everything was shown to come of Himself [according to the eyes of man], His sightful nature [as human, appearance], they could only testify of a human. Which Jesus told He would not have them do. Yes there is 1 throne, Jesus was the only begotten, but there was never a time Jesus wasn't with the Father. John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. So if Jesus is in the bosom of the Father there must be 2 beings, but 1 being. There is 1 God in 3 manifestations. He manifested himself in 3 forms at 1 time. That is why you could see Jesus and The Father as 2 beings. In no way am I denying Jesus' deity though. Jesus is always talking about The Father in heaven. Jesus says I will pray the Father. Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Jesus even prays to The Father to have the cup pass from him. He must not have been praying to himself. Matthew 17:5 While he spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Another instance where The Father speaks to the Son. Jesus even says Father why hast thou forsaken me? Would he be talking to himself? I will put it like C.S Lewis puts it in the book Mere Christianity. "What man begets is man. What God begets is God." "Think of God as a lamp, Jesus is the flame always and forever shooting forth from him." Those aren't his exact words. Again, I am in no way rejecting Jesus' deity.
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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Imotoku Skiddishfit Imotoku I believe that God manifested himself in three forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Though I do believe that if we went to Heaven we could see God, and Jesus seperate. Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from Heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. So there must be a visible Father and Son According to Revelation 4:2 one sits on the throne in the midst of Heaven. Jesus also tells who has seen Him has seen the Father [for which I must include, in some portions of the Bible it tells Jesus sat down on the right hand of God, if this was literal, then why is there only one throne in the midst of Heaven? Also, in Acts 2:25 King David tells God is on his right hand, surely David is not above God]. Telling both manifestations are indeed of the same origin, also in John 14:15-17 the Holy Spirit is of these two manifestation, of the same "source". Being one LORD according to Deuteronomy 6:4. In John 2:25 Jesus would not have man testify of man, for which He was also [100% man and God [scriptural reference 1 Timothy 3:16, Colossians 2:9]], due to Jesus' knowing what is in man. If everything was shown to come of Himself [according to the eyes of man], His sightful nature [as human, appearance], they could only testify of a human. Which Jesus told He would not have them do. Yes there is 1 throne, Jesus was the only begotten, but there was never a time Jesus wasn't with the Father. Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, how could 'one' be with the 'other', if the same? Imotoku John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. So if Jesus is in the bosom of the Father there must be 2 beings, but 1 being. There is 1 God in 3 manifestations. He manifested himself in 3 forms at 1 time. That is why you could see Jesus and The Father as 2 beings. In no way am I denying Jesus' deity though. Quote: bosom In the East objects are carried in the bosom which Europeans carry in the pocket. To have in one's bosom indicates kindness, secrecy, or intimacy (Gen. 16:5; 2 Sam. 12:8.). Christ is said to have been in "the bosom of the Father," i.e., he had the most perfect knowledge of the Father, had the closest intimacy with him (John 1:18.). John (13:23) was "leaning on Jesus' bosom" at the last supper. Our Lord carries his lambs in his bosom, i.e., has a tender, watchful care over them (Isa. 40:11). Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary Imotoku Jesus is always talking about The Father in heaven. Jesus says I will pray the Father. Yep. Quote: Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Imotoku Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. This is saying when God manifests He will come with all of His glory [review 1 Timothy 3:16]. Imotoku Jesus even prays to The Father to have the cup pass from him. He must not have been praying to himself. Yes, who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. Imotoku Matthew 17:5 While he spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Another instance where The Father speaks to the Son. Jesus even says Father why hast thou forsaken me? Would he be talking to himself? God is everywhere present, and nowhere absent. Think about it this way. In the Trinitarian belief, all three co-exist, eternally entwined, inseparable [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit]. When Jesus was present on Earth, God was only 2/3's of Himself? You told from the beginning it was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Imotoku I will put it like C.S Lewis puts it in the book Mere Christianity. "What man begets is man. What God begets is God." "Think of God as a lamp, Jesus is the flame always and forever shooting forth from him." Those aren't his exact words. I see things in a different light. Imotoku Again, I am in no way rejecting Jesus' deity. Jesus is God.
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:15 am
Skiddishfit Imotoku Skiddishfit Imotoku I believe that God manifested himself in three forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Though I do believe that if we went to Heaven we could see God, and Jesus seperate. Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from Heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. So there must be a visible Father and Son According to Revelation 4:2 one sits on the throne in the midst of Heaven. Jesus also tells who has seen Him has seen the Father [for which I must include, in some portions of the Bible it tells Jesus sat down on the right hand of God, if this was literal, then why is there only one throne in the midst of Heaven? Also, in Acts 2:25 King David tells God is on his right hand, surely David is not above God]. Telling both manifestations are indeed of the same origin, also in John 14:15-17 the Holy Spirit is of these two manifestation, of the same "source". Being one LORD according to Deuteronomy 6:4. In John 2:25 Jesus would not have man testify of man, for which He was also [100% man and God [scriptural reference 1 Timothy 3:16, Colossians 2:9]], due to Jesus' knowing what is in man. If everything was shown to come of Himself [according to the eyes of man], His sightful nature [as human, appearance], they could only testify of a human. Which Jesus told He would not have them do. Yes there is 1 throne, Jesus was the only begotten, but there was never a time Jesus wasn't with the Father. Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, how could 'one' be with the 'other', if the same? Imotoku John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. So if Jesus is in the bosom of the Father there must be 2 beings, but 1 being. There is 1 God in 3 manifestations. He manifested himself in 3 forms at 1 time. That is why you could see Jesus and The Father as 2 beings. In no way am I denying Jesus' deity though. Quote: bosom In the East objects are carried in the bosom which Europeans carry in the pocket. To have in one's bosom indicates kindness, secrecy, or intimacy (Gen. 16:5; 2 Sam. 12:8.). Christ is said to have been in "the bosom of the Father," i.e., he had the most perfect knowledge of the Father, had the closest intimacy with him (John 1:18.). John (13:23) was "leaning on Jesus' bosom" at the last supper. Our Lord carries his lambs in his bosom, i.e., has a tender, watchful care over them (Isa. 40:11). Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary Imotoku Jesus is always talking about The Father in heaven. Jesus says I will pray the Father. Yep. Quote: Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Imotoku Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. This is saying when God manifests He will come with all of His glory [review 1 Timothy 3:16]. Imotoku Jesus even prays to The Father to have the cup pass from him. He must not have been praying to himself. Yes, who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. Imotoku Matthew 17:5 While he spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Another instance where The Father speaks to the Son. Jesus even says Father why hast thou forsaken me? Would he be talking to himself? God is everywhere present, and nowhere absent. Think about it this way. In the Trinitarian belief, all three co-exist, eternally entwined, inseparable [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit]. When Jesus was present on Earth, God was only 2/3's of Himself? You told from the beginning it was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Imotoku I will put it like C.S Lewis puts it in the book Mere Christianity. "What man begets is man. What God begets is God." "Think of God as a lamp, Jesus is the flame always and forever shooting forth from him." Those aren't his exact words. I see things in a different light. Imotoku Again, I am in no way rejecting Jesus' deity. Jesus is God. He was not 2/3 of himself. He was all of himself. You are trying to bind him by human limitations. He is manifested in 3 forms at the same time. 3 full forms. Each is not 1/3 each is 100% God. He is not bound by space nor time. He does not need to be half here and half there. He is all here and all there. Each manifest is 100% God, just in 3 forms at the same time, not sequencing. He wasn't first The Father, then Jesus, then the Holy Spirit. He was always The Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit. He is all 3 at the same time.
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:18 am
Imotoku Skiddishfit Imotoku Skiddishfit Imotoku I believe that God manifested himself in three forms, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Though I do believe that if we went to Heaven we could see God, and Jesus seperate. Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from Heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. So there must be a visible Father and Son According to Revelation 4:2 one sits on the throne in the midst of Heaven. Jesus also tells who has seen Him has seen the Father [for which I must include, in some portions of the Bible it tells Jesus sat down on the right hand of God, if this was literal, then why is there only one throne in the midst of Heaven? Also, in Acts 2:25 King David tells God is on his right hand, surely David is not above God]. Telling both manifestations are indeed of the same origin, also in John 14:15-17 the Holy Spirit is of these two manifestation, of the same "source". Being one LORD according to Deuteronomy 6:4. In John 2:25 Jesus would not have man testify of man, for which He was also [100% man and God [scriptural reference 1 Timothy 3:16, Colossians 2:9]], due to Jesus' knowing what is in man. If everything was shown to come of Himself [according to the eyes of man], His sightful nature [as human, appearance], they could only testify of a human. Which Jesus told He would not have them do. Yes there is 1 throne, Jesus was the only begotten, but there was never a time Jesus wasn't with the Father. Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, how could 'one' be with the 'other', if the same? Imotoku John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. So if Jesus is in the bosom of the Father there must be 2 beings, but 1 being. There is 1 God in 3 manifestations. He manifested himself in 3 forms at 1 time. That is why you could see Jesus and The Father as 2 beings. In no way am I denying Jesus' deity though. Quote: bosom In the East objects are carried in the bosom which Europeans carry in the pocket. To have in one's bosom indicates kindness, secrecy, or intimacy (Gen. 16:5; 2 Sam. 12:8.). Christ is said to have been in "the bosom of the Father," i.e., he had the most perfect knowledge of the Father, had the closest intimacy with him (John 1:18.). John (13:23) was "leaning on Jesus' bosom" at the last supper. Our Lord carries his lambs in his bosom, i.e., has a tender, watchful care over them (Isa. 40:11). Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary Imotoku Jesus is always talking about The Father in heaven. Jesus says I will pray the Father. Yep. Quote: Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Imotoku Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. This is saying when God manifests He will come with all of His glory [review 1 Timothy 3:16]. Imotoku Jesus even prays to The Father to have the cup pass from him. He must not have been praying to himself. Yes, who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. Imotoku Matthew 17:5 While he spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Another instance where The Father speaks to the Son. Jesus even says Father why hast thou forsaken me? Would he be talking to himself? God is everywhere present, and nowhere absent. Think about it this way. In the Trinitarian belief, all three co-exist, eternally entwined, inseparable [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit]. When Jesus was present on Earth, God was only 2/3's of Himself? You told from the beginning it was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Imotoku I will put it like C.S Lewis puts it in the book Mere Christianity. "What man begets is man. What God begets is God." "Think of God as a lamp, Jesus is the flame always and forever shooting forth from him." Those aren't his exact words. I see things in a different light. Imotoku Again, I am in no way rejecting Jesus' deity. Jesus is God. He was not 2/3 of himself. He was all of himself. You are trying to bind him by human limitations. He is manifested in 3 forms at the same time. 3 full forms. Each is not 1/3 each is 100% God. He is not bound by space nor time. He does not need to be half here and half there. He is all here and all there. Each manifest is 100% God, just in 3 forms at the same time, not sequencing. He wasn't first The Father, then Jesus, then the Holy Spirit. He was always The Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit. He is all 3 at the same time. And the manifestation; Jesus, said: Quote: Matthew 28:18 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Note Jesus said "me". And not "us".
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:20 am
Skiddishfit Imotoku Skiddishfit Imotoku Skiddishfit According to Revelation 4:2 one sits on the throne in the midst of Heaven. Jesus also tells who has seen Him has seen the Father [for which I must include, in some portions of the Bible it tells Jesus sat down on the right hand of God, if this was literal, then why is there only one throne in the midst of Heaven? Also, in Acts 2:25 King David tells God is on his right hand, surely David is not above God]. Telling both manifestations are indeed of the same origin, also in John 14:15-17 the Holy Spirit is of these two manifestation, of the same "source". Being one LORD according to Deuteronomy 6:4. In John 2:25 Jesus would not have man testify of man, for which He was also [100% man and God [scriptural reference 1 Timothy 3:16, Colossians 2:9]], due to Jesus' knowing what is in man. If everything was shown to come of Himself [according to the eyes of man], His sightful nature [as human, appearance], they could only testify of a human. Which Jesus told He would not have them do. Yes there is 1 throne, Jesus was the only begotten, but there was never a time Jesus wasn't with the Father. Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, how could 'one' be with the 'other', if the same? Imotoku John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. So if Jesus is in the bosom of the Father there must be 2 beings, but 1 being. There is 1 God in 3 manifestations. He manifested himself in 3 forms at 1 time. That is why you could see Jesus and The Father as 2 beings. In no way am I denying Jesus' deity though. Quote: bosom In the East objects are carried in the bosom which Europeans carry in the pocket. To have in one's bosom indicates kindness, secrecy, or intimacy (Gen. 16:5; 2 Sam. 12:8.). Christ is said to have been in "the bosom of the Father," i.e., he had the most perfect knowledge of the Father, had the closest intimacy with him (John 1:18.). John (13:23) was "leaning on Jesus' bosom" at the last supper. Our Lord carries his lambs in his bosom, i.e., has a tender, watchful care over them (Isa. 40:11). Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary Imotoku Jesus is always talking about The Father in heaven. Jesus says I will pray the Father. Yep. Quote: Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Imotoku Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. This is saying when God manifests He will come with all of His glory [review 1 Timothy 3:16]. Imotoku Jesus even prays to The Father to have the cup pass from him. He must not have been praying to himself. Yes, who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. Imotoku Matthew 17:5 While he spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Another instance where The Father speaks to the Son. Jesus even says Father why hast thou forsaken me? Would he be talking to himself? God is everywhere present, and nowhere absent. Think about it this way. In the Trinitarian belief, all three co-exist, eternally entwined, inseparable [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit]. When Jesus was present on Earth, God was only 2/3's of Himself? You told from the beginning it was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Imotoku I will put it like C.S Lewis puts it in the book Mere Christianity. "What man begets is man. What God begets is God." "Think of God as a lamp, Jesus is the flame always and forever shooting forth from him." Those aren't his exact words. I see things in a different light. Imotoku Again, I am in no way rejecting Jesus' deity. Jesus is God. He was not 2/3 of himself. He was all of himself. You are trying to bind him by human limitations. He is manifested in 3 forms at the same time. 3 full forms. Each is not 1/3 each is 100% God. He is not bound by space nor time. He does not need to be half here and half there. He is all here and all there. Each manifest is 100% God, just in 3 forms at the same time, not sequencing. He wasn't first The Father, then Jesus, then the Holy Spirit. He was always The Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit. He is all 3 at the same time. And the manifestation; Jesus, said: Quote: Matthew 28:18 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Note Jesus said "me". And not "us". He also said given. Somewhere in the epistles it says the spirit that raised christ from the dead.
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:24 am
Imotoku Skiddishfit Imotoku Skiddishfit Imotoku Yes there is 1 throne, Jesus was the only begotten, but there was never a time Jesus wasn't with the Father. Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, how could 'one' be with the 'other', if the same? Imotoku John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. So if Jesus is in the bosom of the Father there must be 2 beings, but 1 being. There is 1 God in 3 manifestations. He manifested himself in 3 forms at 1 time. That is why you could see Jesus and The Father as 2 beings. In no way am I denying Jesus' deity though. Quote: bosom In the East objects are carried in the bosom which Europeans carry in the pocket. To have in one's bosom indicates kindness, secrecy, or intimacy (Gen. 16:5; 2 Sam. 12:8.). Christ is said to have been in "the bosom of the Father," i.e., he had the most perfect knowledge of the Father, had the closest intimacy with him (John 1:18.). John (13:23) was "leaning on Jesus' bosom" at the last supper. Our Lord carries his lambs in his bosom, i.e., has a tender, watchful care over them (Isa. 40:11). Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary Imotoku Jesus is always talking about The Father in heaven. Jesus says I will pray the Father. Yep. Quote: Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Imotoku Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. This is saying when God manifests He will come with all of His glory [review 1 Timothy 3:16]. Imotoku Jesus even prays to The Father to have the cup pass from him. He must not have been praying to himself. Yes, who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. Imotoku Matthew 17:5 While he spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Another instance where The Father speaks to the Son. Jesus even says Father why hast thou forsaken me? Would he be talking to himself? God is everywhere present, and nowhere absent. Think about it this way. In the Trinitarian belief, all three co-exist, eternally entwined, inseparable [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit]. When Jesus was present on Earth, God was only 2/3's of Himself? You told from the beginning it was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Imotoku I will put it like C.S Lewis puts it in the book Mere Christianity. "What man begets is man. What God begets is God." "Think of God as a lamp, Jesus is the flame always and forever shooting forth from him." Those aren't his exact words. I see things in a different light. Imotoku Again, I am in no way rejecting Jesus' deity. Jesus is God. He was not 2/3 of himself. He was all of himself. You are trying to bind him by human limitations. He is manifested in 3 forms at the same time. 3 full forms. Each is not 1/3 each is 100% God. He is not bound by space nor time. He does not need to be half here and half there. He is all here and all there. Each manifest is 100% God, just in 3 forms at the same time, not sequencing. He wasn't first The Father, then Jesus, then the Holy Spirit. He was always The Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit. He is all 3 at the same time. And the manifestation; Jesus, said: Quote: Matthew 28:18 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Note Jesus said "me". And not "us". He also said given. Somewhere in the epistles it says the spirit that raised christ from the dead. Yes, it does note "given". Keep in mind this is a manifestation of God. A means He has made Himself known. He was also Human as well, flesh. About being raised: Quote: John 2:19-22 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:25 am
I have to go for work, but I'll be back later.
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Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:26 am
Skiddishfit Imotoku Skiddishfit Imotoku Skiddishfit Who has seen Jesus has seen the Father, how could 'one' be with the 'other', if the same? Yep. This is saying when God manifests He will come with all of His glory [review 1 Timothy 3:16]. Yes, who has seen Jesus has seen the Father. God is everywhere present, and nowhere absent. Think about it this way. In the Trinitarian belief, all three co-exist, eternally entwined, inseparable [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit]. When Jesus was present on Earth, God was only 2/3's of Himself? You told from the beginning it was the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I see things in a different light. Jesus is God. He was not 2/3 of himself. He was all of himself. You are trying to bind him by human limitations. He is manifested in 3 forms at the same time. 3 full forms. Each is not 1/3 each is 100% God. He is not bound by space nor time. He does not need to be half here and half there. He is all here and all there. Each manifest is 100% God, just in 3 forms at the same time, not sequencing. He wasn't first The Father, then Jesus, then the Holy Spirit. He was always The Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit. He is all 3 at the same time. And the manifestation; Jesus, said: Quote: Matthew 28:18 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Note Jesus said "me". And not "us". He also said given. Somewhere in the epistles it says the spirit that raised christ from the dead. Yes, it does note "given". Keep in mind this is a manifestation of God. A means He has made Himself known. About being raised: Quote: John 2:19-22 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body. 22When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said. Yes he raised himself up because he is also the Holy Spirit.
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