The Debate Thread | Page 2 | The Men in Her Life ( Pairing Discussion ) | Guild Forums

Remedi
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:31 pm

NatsuHime2x2

I think that Haruno Sakura will end up with rock lee. I think they make a perfect couple! ^^

At first I thought about Naruto and Sakura, but then I thought about Hinata.

In episode 195, Sakura has to watch over lee, and Her face was so worried when she saw him injured. That's why I think that they will end up together ^^

Well, episode 195 is a filler. It has nothing to do with the actual plot of the story. Manga-wise, that never even happened. I also used to think that Kishimoto had a lot to do with the fillers, but since he has stated that he is inspired by some of them, and that he keeps up with the fillers, I think he really doesn't have much to do at all with the fillers.

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:20 pm

NatsuHime2x2

I think that Haruno Sakura will end up with rock lee. I think they make a perfect couple! ^^

At first I thought about Naruto and Sakura, but then I thought about Hinata.

In episode 195, Sakura has to watch over lee, and Her face was so worried when she saw him injured. That's why I think that they will end up together ^^

Oi, we're bringing another pairing into the mix. Alright, dear. Let's look at this rationally.

First, like Remedi said, the past 40 million episodes have been fillers -- including 195. Kishimoto has nothing to do with them, and I also read in an interview that he said he's inspired by them, giving him new ideas for the manga on down the line and stuff. It's not plotline material, and while it is /official/ (since it's made into an anime), it's just something the director, producers, and writers of the anime came up with. It's nowhere in the manga, therefore, it's not Kishimoto material -- not the real deal.

Secondly, if I saw a hurt little boy on the street, I would have a worried expression too. You can't base the fact that her face showed worry -- and boom, they're automatically a match made in heaven. She freaks out about Sasuke, Naruto, /and/ Kakashi on numerous occasions. Just watch all the many fighting episodes. (And for KakaSaku purposes -- episode 132. Only because that's a really worried expression when she sees her beloved sensei leaving. ;D)

I'm for you on the fact that Naruto and Sakura might work, but I think Kishimoto won't disappoint poor helpless Hinata. So, it's NaruHina for me. Sorry NaruSaku fans. It just doesn't cut it for me.

Which brings me to my preferred pairings for the rest of you kiddies, concerned on where I stand (not like you really are concerned. XD). While some of these may seem ridiculous to you, I've gotten it pretty much worked out to the point that /everyone/ has a dang match. XD

Kakashi with Sakura, first and foremost. Duh. Naruto with Hinata, Sasuke with Ino (that is if he ever returns -- I hope to GOD he doesn't. . . DIE!), Shikamaru with Temari, Neji with Tenten. . . and to clear up your whole idea that Lee will end up with Sakura -- sorryyy~ It's LeeGai, just for the simple reason that I'm whacked. It's the most idiotic pairing, but it works -- considering they've hugged and cried together as if they were sentimental gay pansy lovers. >___>

Okay, I'm done with clarifying /that/ one. XD

[Stormy.Addiction]

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Remedi
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:39 pm

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I haven't seen this "databook," or anything of that sort. If you're referring to Kishimoto saying it, then maybe she did fill his emptiness. I still think (BECAUSE SASUKE'S AN EMO PANSY *COUGH*) that his emptiness won't be filled until he gets revenge on his brother. And while he did thank her for it -- wouldn't he want to stay and keep that empty feeling away by being with her? I highly doubt the emptiness has been filled up to the current manga from that point. (Orochimaru and his man-boy love for Sasuke probably did that. XD)

Wow. o.O Stormy hates Sasuke a LOT!

Well I think that the emptiness of what Sakura "filled" is totally a different aspect of the emptiness of not havnig revenge. Therefore, he wouldn't have stayed.

I think that even if Sasuke TRUELY LOVED Sakura, he still would have left. Revenge is something majorly important to him. More important that love.

Now, we can't change the fact that Sasuke left for revenge. But put it this way. Let's say, Itachi killed the clan, but Sasuke DIDN'T want revenge.

Now, since according to Kishimoto, Sakura filled his emptyness, so if Sasuke wasn't hell bent on revenge, I think that he would've acknowledged her feelings more. Would he have loved her back? Possibly not, but I think that had he stayed and not worried, then maybe he could've and would've grown to love her, and get a better relationship with Naruto and Kakashi (and everyone else) as well.

And that is why, if Sasuke didn't choose to avenge his family, SasuSaku would SO be canon. :3

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:13 am

Remedi

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I haven't seen this "databook," or anything of that sort. If you're referring to Kishimoto saying it, then maybe she did fill his emptiness. I still think (BECAUSE SASUKE'S AN EMO PANSY *COUGH*) that his emptiness won't be filled until he gets revenge on his brother. And while he did thank her for it -- wouldn't he want to stay and keep that empty feeling away by being with her? I highly doubt the emptiness has been filled up to the current manga from that point. (Orochimaru and his man-boy love for Sasuke probably did that. XD)

Wow. o.O Stormy hates Sasuke a LOT!

Well I think that the emptiness of what Sakura "filled" is totally a different aspect of the emptiness of not havnig revenge. Therefore, he wouldn't have stayed.

I think that even if Sasuke TRUELY LOVED Sakura, he still would have left. Revenge is something majorly important to him. More important that love.

Now, we can't change the fact that Sasuke left for revenge. But put it this way. Let's say, Itachi killed the clan, but Sasuke DIDN'T want revenge.

Now, since according to Kishimoto, Sakura filled his emptyness, so if Sasuke wasn't hell bent on revenge, I think that he would've acknowledged her feelings more. Would he have loved her back? Possibly not, but I think that had he stayed and not worried, then maybe he could've and would've grown to love her, and get a better relationship with Naruto and Kakashi (and everyone else) as well.

And that is why, if Sasuke didn't choose to avenge his family, SasuSaku would SO be canon. :3

I can't stand him. EMO! *Hiss* stressed emo -- But this is beside the point.

However. . . that is part of the reason why I don't like him. He's pretty much a cold-hearted b*****d -- he kinda even was a bit before Itachi did his whole massacre mess (zomg m@$$@cr3 JUTSU! XD). And even if he /wasn't/ bent on revenge and stuff, I don't think he'd be capable of loving. He's like Gaara -- another character I'm not particularly fond of.

Geez, what /is/ it with me and the unloving characters? I mean, you NEVER see Sasuke smile or ANYTHING. If it is, it's out of sick pleasure of breaking peoples arms or a smirk because "Haha, I'm better than you and I know it."

To bring up another point why I don't think SasuSaku would be good -- Sakura doesn't deserve someone of that personality. ('Swhy I don't like GaaSaku either. But, that's seriously just weird and could probably never work out.)

[Stormy.Addiction]

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Remedi
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:05 am

[Stormy.Addiction]

Remedi

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I haven't seen this "databook," or anything of that sort. If you're referring to Kishimoto saying it, then maybe she did fill his emptiness. I still think (BECAUSE SASUKE'S AN EMO PANSY *COUGH*) that his emptiness won't be filled until he gets revenge on his brother. And while he did thank her for it -- wouldn't he want to stay and keep that empty feeling away by being with her? I highly doubt the emptiness has been filled up to the current manga from that point. (Orochimaru and his man-boy love for Sasuke probably did that. XD)

Wow. o.O Stormy hates Sasuke a LOT!

Well I think that the emptiness of what Sakura "filled" is totally a different aspect of the emptiness of not havnig revenge. Therefore, he wouldn't have stayed.

I think that even if Sasuke TRUELY LOVED Sakura, he still would have left. Revenge is something majorly important to him. More important that love.

Now, we can't change the fact that Sasuke left for revenge. But put it this way. Let's say, Itachi killed the clan, but Sasuke DIDN'T want revenge.

Now, since according to Kishimoto, Sakura filled his emptyness, so if Sasuke wasn't hell bent on revenge, I think that he would've acknowledged her feelings more. Would he have loved her back? Possibly not, but I think that had he stayed and not worried, then maybe he could've and would've grown to love her, and get a better relationship with Naruto and Kakashi (and everyone else) as well.

And that is why, if Sasuke didn't choose to avenge his family, SasuSaku would SO be canon. :3

I can't stand him. EMO! *Hiss* stressed emo -- But this is beside the point.

However. . . that is part of the reason why I don't like him. He's pretty much a cold-hearted b*****d -- he kinda even was a bit before Itachi did his whole massacre mess (zomg m@$$@cr3 JUTSU! XD). And even if he /wasn't/ bent on revenge and stuff, I don't think he'd be capable of loving. He's like Gaara -- another character I'm not particularly fond of.

Geez, what /is/ it with me and the unloving characters? I mean, you NEVER see Sasuke smile or ANYTHING. If it is, it's out of sick pleasure of breaking peoples arms or a smirk because "Haha, I'm better than you and I know it."

To bring up another point why I don't think SasuSaku would be good -- Sakura doesn't deserve someone of that personality. ('Swhy I don't like GaaSaku either. But, that's seriously just weird and could probably never work out.)

Well, doesn't his situation kinda force him into that personality? His entire family was SLAUGHTERED. And for someone who's TWELVE years old, I think that his personality makes perfect sense.

And before the clan, I have to say that he WASN'T a b*****d...he was small child trying to be better than his brother. That's what siblings do, I know first hand. I think he was actually innocent and nice, being that he was happy to talk to his aunt and uncle, and mother, and father, and brother, SO ON.

Couldn't it be a possibility that at twelve (I am stressing his age here), his train of thought is saying that if he gets close to anybody, than Itachi would take them away, as well?

Honestly. Sasuke is a CHILD. Children are expected to act the way he did. Yes, his attitude is something that a lot of people hate, but he's too young to understand any different. I really can't see how 90% of this is HIS fault.

And about the SasuSaku, comment...what ever matters who deserves what? It about what the character WANTS. Sakura WANTS Sasuke; she's chosen to love him by CHOICE. If she's able to accept Sasuke for all he is, and be willing to do anything for him, then does it matter if she deserves better or not? So he doesn't return her feelings, so what? That won't change her opinion on it's own.

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:14 am

I agree with everyone Iia said but I'll just add something in regards to Sasuke's personality..

He may have seemed like a cold-hearted b*****d but really, hes just doing a wonderful job holding everthing in. Sure, you don't see him smile very often at all but thats just his character and thats who Team 7 has accepted. Theres more to Sasuke than what we see and I know this through Naruto's comment.

"Way back, I used to hate Sasuke..but when I got used to him...I realised he was a really fun person to be around."

Sure, we go, "Fun. Wtf?" But this is the Sasuke they know, and are working to rescue. So in regards of Sakura deserving better than Sasuke, I personally think she really doesn't give a damn. The manga theme is accepting people and Sakura has accepted Sasuke for who he is and she understands he may not be the loving type but she'll do all she can at least to save him.

As Iia said, this was her choice and it was Naruto's choice to continue to pursue Sasuke and to put Sasuke ahead of his dream to become Hokage. Because Sasuke is important to them as a person. And Sasuke's personality is part of him and thats what makes him Sasuke.

Cherrihana

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Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:52 pm

NatsuHime2x2

I think that Haruno Sakura will end up with rock lee. I think they make a perfect couple! ^^

At first I thought about Naruto and Sakura, but then I thought about Hinata.

In episode 195, Sakura has to watch over lee, and Her face was so worried when she saw him injured. That's why I think that they will end up together ^^

YAY! Another one! 3nodding

Ok! My view on this is that it's most definately possible. Also! I'm using the anime for this (not fillers, mind you) so if any of the examples were NOT in the manga, please say so and I'll retract them.

We know Lee likes Sakura, and has since he first saw her. However it does take two to tango so the rest of the equation is figuring out of it's possible on Sakura's end. We also know that Sakura initially rejected Lee on the basis that he looks really creepy. However, in the second Chuunin exam he completely saves her (before she did the whole noble hair cut swoofy scene of doom anyway) and afterwards when she thanked him she said "Thanks to you my eyes are wide open now. I think I've become a little stronger." Plus she even punched Naruto out when he insulted Lee. While she was clearly referring to her path as a ninja and had no romantic intentions at that point, it is clear that she deeply respected Lee from there on out. Which, while not an entire case in itself, opens the whole LeeSaku thing as a possibility, not just a crack pairing.

From here out I'm using examples beyond the anime release in America and it's therefore whited out. However some of it has been released in the American manga editions.

Secondly after Lee's fight with Gaara she tries to jump in to be with him, only stopping when Kakashi tells her she'd only cause him more pain. Again, while this doesn't prove anything romantic, it does show Sakura cares deeply about him.

Thirdly, the flower. Sakura could have easily bought just one for Sasuke, her obvious love interest. However, she choose to give one to Lee as well, even though she'd only known him for about a week. You can blame it on Sakura's sweet nature, but I think the fact that she chose the same type (Quote: "A daffodil: An admirable flower that waits for spring as it stands valiently against the winter cold") is a foreshadowing that Lee could become the object of her affections, as Sasuke is it that point. Plus, what she says about the daffodil can be compared to to what Lee said about being the lotus and blooming twice: They both have strong indurance. Though, I suppose you could work the symbolism that it would be in favor of Sasuke as well. I just think that Lee's is much more obvious.

This idea is not based off the series but something Kishimoto said, which is that in the beginning Sakura and Lee were supposed to represent human weakness. This shows not only that the creator had them both in mind at the same time, but that their development is essentially similar. My opinion: While it can be left off that they both get incredibly stronger as ninja, there's something more to it.

Bring it, yo. wink

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:14 am

Yes! More people to debate with <3

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We know Lee likes Sakura, and has since he first saw her.

Well, I personally think right now in the manga Lee's feelings are kinda dead or did I miss something? Because it doesn't seem like he likes her all that much anymore. As a friend yes, but romantically I mean. To me, LeeSaku is cute but I can't see it happening anymore or atleast any time soon.

What really killed the pairing for me was the leaf scene. Where he said that he wanted to catch all the leaves and if he missed one Sakura would never fall in love with him. I know, it was merely training but Kishimoto focused on the leaf on the floor for a whole panel as if to show us something.

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We know Lee likes Sakura, and has since he first saw her. However it does take two to tango so the rest of the equation is figuring out of it's possible on Sakura's end. We also know that Sakura initially rejected Lee on the basis that he looks really creepy. However, in the second Chuunin exam he completely saves her (before she did the whole noble hair cut swoofy scene of doom anyway) and afterwards when she thanked him she said "Thanks to you my eyes are wide open now. I think I've become a little stronger." Plus she even punched Naruto out when he insulted Lee. While she was clearly referring to her path as a ninja and had no romantic intentions at that point, it is clear that she deeply respected Lee from there on out. Which, while not an entire case in itself, opens the whole LeeSaku thing as a possibility, not just a crack pairing.

Many of these reasons work for NaruSaku. Thanks to Naruto, she gained the courange to train under Tsunade. Shes stuck up for Naruto many times when people said bad things about him such as when Ino said he couldn't possibly win against Neji. She respects Naruto. It does open a possibility for LeeSaku but to me, its all just a matter of respect when it needs to be given because lets face it, Lee is pretty damn strong and has proven it to Sakura. I just don't think Lee could win Sakura's heart, not then or now.

Kishi has done very much to constantly remind us of how much Sakura loves Sasuke and how strong her feelings are. Because that is the way Sakura is. Shes more of the person to love rather then someone who wants to be loved. She wants to save and protect those important to her rather then be preotected herself. That is why I support SasuSaku so strongly, its not the guy doing the protecting and saving but Sakura who has grown so much to save Sasuke.

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Secondly after Lee's fight with Gaara she tries to jump in to be with him, only stopping when Kakashi tells her she'd only cause him more pain. Again, while this doesn't prove anything romantic, it does show Sakura cares deeply about him.

Well, yeah Sakura cares deeply for a lot of people. Shes cried for Sasuke and Naruto. Shes promised to save them both with her own strength. Hell, she cares a lot for Kakashi, Ino and her family. And if you count Hinata because she seemed worried for her after the Neji vs Hinata fight. Sakura is a very passionate person and she cares a lot for her fellow comrades but I think when it comes to love, it will always be Sasuke for her.

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Thirdly, the flower. Sakura could have easily bought just one for Sasuke, her obvious love interest. However, she choose to give one to Lee as well, even though she'd only known him for about a week. You can blame it on Sakura's sweet nature, but I think the fact that she chose the same type (Quote: "A daffodil: An admirable flower that waits for spring as it stands valiently against the winter cold") is a foreshadowing that Lee could become the object of her affections, as Sasuke is it that point. Plus, what she says about the daffodil can be compared to to what Lee said about being the lotus and blooming twice: They both have strong indurance. Though, I suppose you could work the symbolism that it would be in favor of Sasuke as well. I just think that Lee's is much more obvious.

Ah. The flower. What bothers me about this is she would have easily done the same had Naruto been in hospital, or Kakashi or Ino or anyone she knew that she cared about. I think the main purpose of the flower was to open a moment in which Ino can tell Sakura about Lee not being capable of being a ninja in his current state. Other than that and Sakura's sweet nature like you said I don't see anything. I've watched this scene many times since I've been sick the past few days and I never saw any LeeSaku-ness in it besides the fact that shes well getting him a flower because hes in hospital. I guess I just think this scene is nothing compared to her visiting Sasuke every single day and bringing a new flower with her every day.

I think Sakura sees Lee as a friend and will always think of him like that. Everything you've said has made me think so even more because it showing how much Sakura respects Lee. I don't think Sakura takes Lee as a love interest.

I think Sakura will end up with Sasuke. If not, then Naruto. If not, I see her ending up alone. (And SasuNaru happening)

Cherrihana

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:06 pm

Debatedebate! :D
deadtired, so I apologize if I've missed anything
(OHDAMMIT. If you haven't read the time-skip, then perhaps you better not read my post. >____>)

My oppinion on LeeSaku:

Lee has feelings for Sakura, yes. But what I see in Lee is that he considers Sakura his goddess, his idol, his goal--and that's the way he wants it. I think, much of the reason he adores her so is because she won't ever return his feelings romantically. Sakura's had two years to rethink her direction, but she chose to follow the path with Naruto to rescue Sasuke.

I'm not saying LeeSaku isn't entirely plausible, rather that I haven't seen them interact with each other in the timeskip. I do believe they have remained good friends--the respect that's grown between the two of them is heartwarming. 3nodding

As for the flower scene, as Cherrihana said, Sakura could have easily done the same for anyone she cared for. Lee is one of her good friends, I didn't think she gave him flowers for any romantic reason.

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:51 pm

I'm so mad right now, I had this whole long post typed out and then my computer refreshed somehow and MEH! xp ...I think Bill Gates is trying to smite me somehow. Anyway!

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Well, I personally think right now in the manga Lee's feelings are kinda dead or did I miss something? Because it doesn't seem like he likes her all that much anymore. As a friend yes, but romantically I mean. To me, LeeSaku is cute but I can't see it happening anymore or atleast any time soon.

Ok, I haven't read the manga past the American releases so you'll just have to bare with me on this one. Juding from what I know about Lee's somewhat creepily determined attitude, I don't think he'd give up on Sakura and move on. I think if he's acting like that, he's probably decided to just enjoy the friendship since Sakura hasn't returned the feelings yet, or simply realized that freaking her out with winks and air kisses isn't the best way to go.

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What really killed the pairing for me was the leaf scene. Where he said that he wanted to catch all the leaves and if he missed one Sakura would never fall in love with him. I know, it was merely training but Kishimoto focused on the leaf on the floor for a whole panel as if to show us something.

Symbolism! twisted I actually stopped to think about this too and am really surprised I forgot to mention this in my first post. I know in the manga the solitary leaf gets its very own panel, and when each one is accounted for, that's really saying a lot. What I think, though, is that the leaf meant that Lee couldn't get Sakura with his current schoolboy crush (Much like Sakura would have never had a chance with Sasuke had she kept up with her original 'OMG teh smex' attitude). So, I think given the fact that 'the lotus blooms twice', the leaf meant Lee would have to let his feelings rest for a bit, then return with a more serious, mature attitude.

Yeah, you can tell I've read WAY too much Hawthorne.

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Many of these reasons work for NaruSaku. Thanks to Naruto, she gained the courange to train under Tsunade. Shes stuck up for Naruto many times when people said bad things about him such as when Ino said he couldn't possibly win against Neji. She respects Naruto. It does open a possibility for LeeSaku but to me, its all just a matter of respect when it needs to be given because lets face it, Lee is pretty damn strong and has proven it to Sakura. I just don't think Lee could win Sakura's heart, not then or now.

Kishi has done very much to constantly remind us of how much Sakura loves Sasuke and how strong her feelings are. Because that is the way Sakura is. Shes more of the person to love rather then someone who wants to be loved. She wants to save and protect those important to her rather then be preotected herself. That is why I support SasuSaku so strongly, its not the guy doing the protecting and saving but Sakura who has grown so much to save Sasuke.

See, I just simply disagree with this, so I don't think we can debate much more on it. Basically, what I think you're saying is that if Sakura were a seed, Lee and Naruto would be acting like the soil, water, sunlight etc and nurturing her to grow. But the reason she's growing is for Sasuke. What I think is that she'd eventually grow to repay those who had nurtured her (I'm also a NaruSaku fan, so I agree in your arguments that it works for him too). So, while she's currently trying to save Sasuke, I think in the long run it will be either Naruto or Lee (though I'm hoping for Lee! 3nodding ).

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Well, yeah Sakura cares deeply for a lot of people. Shes cried for Sasuke and Naruto. Shes promised to save them both with her own strength. Hell, she cares a lot for Kakashi, Ino and her family. And if you count Hinata because she seemed worried for her after the Neji vs Hinata fight. Sakura is a very passionate person and she cares a lot for her fellow comrades but I think when it comes to love, it will always be Sasuke for her.

You see, I just think it's more than that. She physically tried to get into the ring to be close to Lee, something she didn't do for any of the others (at least that I can remember, feel free to correct), so to me it's the same thing that I said before with the two flowers: I think Kishi is trying to put Lee on the same level as Sasuke. This is because before the matches Sakura tried to get Sasuke to stop altogether, she was afraid for him, same as she was afraid for Lee as the match went on.

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Ah. The flower. What bothers me about this is she would have easily done the same had Naruto been in hospital, or Kakashi or Ino or anyone she knew that she cared about. I think the main purpose of the flower was to open a moment in which Ino can tell Sakura about Lee not being capable of being a ninja in his current state. Other than that and Sakura's sweet nature like you said I don't see anything. I've watched this scene many times since I've been sick the past few days and I never saw any LeeSaku-ness in it besides the fact that shes well getting him a flower because hes in hospital. I guess I just think this scene is nothing compared to her visiting Sasuke every single day and bringing a new flower with her every day.

I just have to stick by my reason of it relating to the lotus as they're both flowers. And I acutally have a new argument for that. It's clear that Kishi researched flowers before he created Lee, maybe with Sakura giving him one in mind. But, I just searched lotuses and daffodils on Wikipedia and they both have this in common: The daffodil is apparently another name for Narcissus, while the 'lotus eaters' were figures in Homer's Odyssey. Also, I found about twenty different kinds of lotuses, but each one seems to have the same structure of a daffodil and most of them have the same coloring. I'd post pictures but they'd all stretch the page, sadly. So here are links to a few of the lotuses and then one of the daffodil. See for yourself.

Lotus 1
Lotus 2
Lotus 3
Daffodil

While I agree that this is stretching the boundaries, it is a common literary technique to give specifics for a reason. (Dickens did it with practicaly every character's name in A Tale of Two Cities.) I just think he would have had to have researched daffodils in order to draw one, and would have had to have had lotus pictures not far off in his mind.

So, while Sakura is the kind of person who'd do this for anyone (And repeatedly if it's Sasuke), I do think it's just really subtle on Kishi's part.

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I think Sakura sees Lee as a friend and will always think of him like that. Everything you've said has made me think so even more because it showing how much Sakura respects Lee. I don't think Sakura takes Lee as a love interest.

I think Sakura will end up with Sasuke. If not, then Naruto. If not, I see her ending up alone. (And SasuNaru happening)

I think what it is is that people will believe what they want to. I mean, I've always loved the pairing (LeeSaku) so I've found ways to enforce it in my own mind. Whereas when the SasuSaku pairing comes up in conversation I have to remind myself of Bambii's immortal words: If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

Oh, and if you completely disregard the daffodil argument I won't be too offended, my friends say I'm an overly-excited English teacher in the making. sweatdrop

Candy Quackenbush

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Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:53 pm

I'm looking at that post I just made and wondering how I don't have blisters on my fingers... eek

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:38 pm

Candy Quackenbush

You see, I just think it's more than that. She physically tried to get into the ring to be close to Lee, something she didn't do for any of the others (at least that I can remember, feel free to correct), so to me it's the same thing that I said before with the two flowers: I think Kishi is trying to put Lee on the same level as Sasuke. This is because before the matches Sakura tried to get Sasuke to stop altogether, she was afraid for him, same as she was afraid for Lee as the match went on.

Actually, Sakura got into the ring to check on Hinata as well. Since neither Sasuke nor Naruto really needed such checking on, it's quite understandable that she wouldn't try to go in after them.

(That is one heck of a post to get lost *pat.pat*)

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Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:44 am

Princess Dustbunny

Candy Quackenbush

You see, I just think it's more than that. She physically tried to get into the ring to be close to Lee, something she didn't do for any of the others (at least that I can remember, feel free to correct), so to me it's the same thing that I said before with the two flowers: I think Kishi is trying to put Lee on the same level as Sasuke. This is because before the matches Sakura tried to get Sasuke to stop altogether, she was afraid for him, same as she was afraid for Lee as the match went on.

Actually, Sakura got into the ring to check on Hinata as well. Since neither Sasuke nor Naruto really needed such checking on, it's quite understandable that she wouldn't try to go in after them.

(That is one heck of a post to get lost *pat.pat*)

Um... Actually both of them did need checking up on. Did you not see how Naruto got pwned by Kiba in the beginning of his match and how he continued to get ripped apart in the rest of it? Sasuke's was even worse with his curse mark threatening to take over.

Yet in Naruto's she kept cheering him on. My point was Sasuke and Lee's were the only matches where she really did want them to stop out of fear for them, thus she was regarding them both in the same way. That's all.

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:04 pm

Honestly...I have no idea who Sakura should end up with. While I do have my favorite pairings (Neji/Sakura being one of them) I have high doubts that these will happen. I can't see Sakura with Sasuke be cause of chapters 307-310. (He completely ignores her pretty much...>.>). I would go with Nauto/Sakura if it wasn't for Hinata. Lee's feelings are pretty one-sided and Sai is just trying to learn about using emotions I think so...I have no idea on who Sakura should choose. e_e

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Reyairia

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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:14 am

Okay, the GaaSaku guild owner is here and has stuffz to argue. Yeah, stuffz.

First of all: SasuSaku.
I cannot STAND this pairing. At all.
A lot of SasuSaku-ers argue the "saving" thing. No. The proof? She already tried and failed. Naruto is the only one that is mentioned that is able to save Sasuke, not Sakura, and I believe that is a very important line from Neji that Kishimoto did not just put there at random. Now, I'm
definately not a SasuNaru fan and I know that Kishimoto himself mentioned he disliked BL, so SasuNaru is completely fanmade. However, it is true that they both have a very strong bond that Sakura could not compete with. Somehow, I believe that Sakura failing at convincing Sasuke not to go with Orochimaru means that SasuSaku is doomed.
Another thing is Naruto. I myself really dislike teammate pairings because they always end up excluding another member. Somehow, after Naruto crushing on Sakura and Sakura degrading him in favor of Sasuke I cannot see SasuSaku happening.
Sasuke also has an obsession for power, and the only way he seems to be able to notice someone is if they were just or more powerful than him.
(In which knowing Japanese sexism, will most likely be another guy. ninja )

Second: NaruSaku
Better off than SasuSaku, but still pretty bad. Yes, it is possible for someone to hate NaruSaku, SasuSaku and SasuNaru at the same time.
Remember the hospital scene where Sakura embraced Sasuke and Naruto suddenly looked sad? I think it meant that NaruSaku was doomed. In the NaruHina guild someone put an essay on how NaruHina was more cannon than NaruSaku and was up to date that I found of LJ:

"Here's my NaruHina rant. (Or essay...what ever you want to call it.)

The statement Ive had to retype the most was "Why would Kishi make Hinata still have her crush on Naruto after 2.5 years? Wouldn't he have dropped it by now if NaruHina didn't have a chance at happening?" Yeah along those lines. Cause it's true! Most anti-NaruHina's seem to ignore that, and other foreshadows. When they start throwing NaruSaku hints at me, I never change my mind. Basically: Throw as many hints as you like, it does not change the fact that Hinata still likes Naruto. Main guy x Main girl got so old and boring... Kishi should do something different.

As for Naruto liking Sakura, yeah he did in the beginning. But he really hasn't been talking about her the way he use to. As for the “date” thing in 311, haha, it's clear that Sakura and Naruto are just very close friends. She rejected him again but nicely. I now believe Naruto does that just to tease, and it's for comedy.

Psh... First off, you can't take Yamato seriously. He has only known them for 5 days. Also, he has no clue what Team 7's past was. I think NaruSaku fans jumped to conclusions way too fast with this one. The biggest thing here was that his statement wasn't even completed.

Better yet! There's no way Kishi could forget about Hinata. One, she's one of his characters. Two, he even kept her feelings for Naruto after 2.5 years. If he forgot about Hinata, hell I bet we wouldn't have even seen her yet for part 2.

Hehe, speaking of part 2.... Hinata is on the cover of chapter 297, which is also the same chapter where this statement comes from. No, that was not a coincidence. It's not like the creator went threw a pile of sketches and said “Oh! Hinata! I'll just stick her on the cover randomly!” ...No. He knew what would happen in the chapter.

Kishi said adding romance was hard. Which brings up another point. I would find adding NaruSaku....EASY. Oh dear what could this mean? Come on, main guy x main girl, and they're all alone now with no Sasuke. So why hasn't it happened? Hmmm? Maybe it's not what Kishi intends.

“What are you saying!? Naruto never gives up! It's his nindo! He won't give up on Sakura!”

Well that maybe true, he never gives up. However... his nindo is actually “I never take back my words! That's my way of the ninja!” Where is 'giving up'?

Did Naruto ever once say “I love you” to Sakura? Nope. Is his goal to be with Sakura? Nope. It's to become Hokage. So I see no reason for NaruSaku to happen. So why not NaruHina?

I know Naruto's goal is not to be with Hinata either, but it would at least help Hinata's character. Her theme is “If you believe in yourself, you can change yourself.” (Or along those lines) Who helped her change herself? Naruto.

And since Hinata's nindo is the same as Naruto's... and she vowed to get stronger, change herself, and do her best... SHE WILL. I think she wanted to be accepted by Naruto but I'm not to sure if she stated it... I know she wanted him to notice her change though. So she definitely wants to change for him.

More anti-NaruSaku?

-There are no reasons for them to be lovers. They will be perfectly fine as best friends.

-If Kishi doesn't want NaruHina, making Hinata's feelings fade [just like Lee's!] would be the obvious thing to do. But he didn't, so either he doesn't know what he is writing or he wants them to be used.

-NaruSaku date from 247 is not romance according to Kishi.

-The fact that Sakura didn't even see Naruto off before he went to train for 2 years. At least Hinata DID. (Even if she didn't face him directly, she watched him leave)

-Many missed oportunities for Kishi to do NaruSaku.

No I am NOT negating the possibility of NaruSaku. It's very possible, though, in my eyes, it wouldn't help the plot.

Let's take a look at what I mentioned about how Kishi could have dropped Hinata's feelings. I don't think Lee likes Sakura anymore... See now THAT was a comical crush thing. Like Ino's feelings for Sasuke. Comical and probably just there so Kishi could develop Ino/Sakura's story. Hinata's feelings for Naruto are different. I think THOSE have a PURPOSE. Whether or not NaruHina happens, I don't care. I just want to see them resolved in some way. Lee and Ino's feelings for their previous crushes Sasuke and Sakura have basically faded as I see it. (Look at Ino.. Chapter 312: as soon as she saw Sai, she went all over him. It's clear Ino's feelings were not true love.)

It's quite obvious Hinata loves Naruto. It is not just mere admiration as many anti's say. I looked at vol...9, I believe of Naruto in Borders and I looked at Hinata's character description. It specifically says "She has a major crush on Naruto"........ And since she was having a conflict with herself in 282... It just shows her feelings are still there. I wish anti-NaruHina fans would just face the facts and accept that Hinata loves Naruto. They can still hate the pairing, but at least get a reality check.

Naruto opened up to Hinata and told her he wasn't that strong. I was surprised since he hardly knew her and always acted tough in front of everyone else. [Even Sasuke and Sakura] And swearing on someone's blood isn't really to be taken lightly... Who does THAT? That was basically the beginning of development for NaruHina. I hope Kishi will make the right decision and do NaruHina. [And the right way.]

Speaking of the “Naruto opens up to Hinata scene” ... (Episode 59. Or Chapter 98.)

Naruto: Thanks Hinata. I was feeling uncharacteristically depressed... but now, I feel great!

Naruto: A person like you, I really like! (Or in the anime he states “I like people like you.”)

These are direct quotes from the manga. This is development for NaruHina. Again, Kishi didn't have to include this NaruHina interaction. But he did.

The theme: "People accepting other people" - Naruto accepts Hinata to be strong, and ends up falling in love with her. Makes sense. Sakura already accepted Naruto so basically.. that's done.

IF NaruHina doesn't happen then I'm sure Hinata's feelings will be resolved some other way. A way in which everyone will be happy.

Hinata could lose her feelings. But seriously... I DOUBT that. Her whole character (for the most part) from the start was based on Naruto. Why change that now? That would be a waste for the development in part 1.

If someone were to go against me on that and claim why Kishi gave Naruto feelings for Sakura... Then look at it this way:

Naruto in the beginning really only sought acknowledgment. Not romance. He alone didn't even know why he liked Sakura until SHE told him what she wanted. He realized he 'liked' her because she was the same as him. Well guess what? Hinata seeks acknowledgment as well. Sakura's rejecting Naruto and punching him was the comedy. Not Hinata fainting/blushing. That was real.

Why is there so much NaruHina in fillers? I heard that the fillers are supposed to follow the manga and what direction it's headed in. The animators must know Kishi's secrets. Interesting... Why would the fillers have so much NaruHina..JUST to have NaruSaku or something else happen? Perhaps the fillers are not just a fan service. Maybe he wants Naruto and Hinata to interact more to rise the fandom? It's possible.

Here's anti-NaruHina reasons that I can not stand. So I will counter.

“Hinata is not the heroine, therefore she cannot possibly have a chance with Naruto!”

That argument just makes anti-NaruHina's look a bit stupid. If THAT'S the only reason why NaruHina can't happen... then... I think they need to re-read the manga. Naruto isn't a "typical" shounen manga. We all know it's different and unique. Not all shounen mangas end with main guy x main girl. Digimon didn't. Dragonball didn't. I guess the way we get sick of the main guy x main girl argument.. is how they get sick of the "Goku/ChiChi" argument. (Though it makes more sense since Kishi is a fan of Dragonball...And the manga already has like... 5 million similarities to Dragonball already.) Plus Goku/ChiChi is the same as NaruHina. ChiChi waited about 10 years for Goku to notice her.

“They have little interaction!”

So? There have been pairs that had little interaction before and still ended up together. (ie – Goku/ChiChi, Matt/Sora, etc) Little interaction...but when they do interact, it has deep purpose.

Remember: Interaction doesn't matter in anime. It's the character's feelings that do.

“Hinata can be strong without Naruto!”

She might be, yes. But who the hell was the one who inspired her? NARUTO. Who is her character basically based on? NARUTO. Who does she look up to? NARUTO. Hinata could become the head of the Hyuuga, become strong, get accepted by her father and the Hyuuga clan, and with that her development could be resolved... But not her feelings.

“Naruto can't be with Hinata! Her father and the clan won't allow it!”

Oh how I love this one. Another example of a foreshadow may be when Naruto versed Neji. Before he wins, he says "After I become Hokage, I'll change Hyuuga!" That can be used against people who say NaruHina won't happen because her clan/father won't allow it. A Hokage is a Hokage and he/she can change what ever they want. Naruto become Hokage? Goal from the beginning? To get everyone to acknowledge his existence? That is correct.

You want more? Neji is part of the Hyuuga and he says in 238 to Hinata “I heard that Naruto's leaving the village today for his training, but shouldn't you see him off?” ....Neji knows. He supports it. It's obvious.

More? A theme for Naruto is the “breaking away from traditions” or something like that. Something about making it better. Welp... Hyuuga is an excellent example.

Then we have Kiba. He should know Hinata very well, considering they are team mates.

Chap. 238

“Hinata already went out of concern for him! But when she saw him all bandaged up, she almost fainted...”

Chap 282 [When Hinata sees Naruto again for the first time]

“Why do you always faint around Naruto!?”

...She fainted ONCE in the manga and that was that exact chapter. So “always”? What? Sure she studdered and ALMOST fainted while being around Naruto but she never did until that chapter. Unless you count fillers. She faints in those. ...Oh fillers, huh? But they don't count, right? Or do they?

Next:

“She's always watching you.” - Haruno Sakura

So Sakura knows, too? It's not confirmed she knows about the crush, but she definitely has some knowledge of Hinata's feelings towards Naruto. Yes... I think it's fair to assume that Sakura knows about Hinatas feelings, so it would be... very bitchy if she would try to gain Naruto's love for herself... if she loves him that is.

Let's look at the databook. Hinata's 2nd databook profile:

Hinata, always feeling the same towards Naruto. Will the day come when she can face him directly?

Hinata passively gave in to everything, but with the support of Naruto's
cheering, she had a fierce battle with Neji, and matured greatly. There is still
a lot of her that is not sufficient as the child of the Hyuuga Main House, but
indomitable strength is added to her original pure heart, and little by little,
but steadily, Hinata progresses ahead... She wishes that she could move even one step closer towards the back of Naruto, her idol...

Mhmm... “Will the day come when she can face him directly?” - That's basically a rhetorical question in my opinion. For example:

Chapter 282: Hinata in her mind thinks:

“Naruto-kun.. I heard he was back in the village, but...”

“What do I do?”
“My feelings.. I'm still not ready...”

And the suffix around her means “heart beat.”

Next: Rough draft of Hinata. This is the drawing of Hinata that Kishimoto gave the editors. IT IS NOT FANART.

http://s2.supload.com/image.php?get=example01.jpg

Who is in the backround? NARUTO. What else is there? A sun. I know Hinata means sun or sunlight, but does it mean something more? Let's make a comparison...

Chapter 297 (cover with Hinata, same chapter that Sakura LIED to Naruto as well.) - “Guided by a golden light, now she's walking out in the sun!” Maybe this “Golden light” is Naruto?

Now lets look at Kishimoto's interviews:

SJ: Has there been anything you've wanted to do in the manga you haven't put in yet?
MK: As ideas come to me, I try to include them. With the volumes of Naruto manga I've put out so far, I've already done most of the things I wanted to do. So now I'm trying to figure out what to do next. Well, I haven't really written about romantic relationships...

Again.. Interaction doesn't matter.

"I want to put in romance that I wasn't able to..." - So he created a base for them in part 1?
not
"I want to put in romance that I didn't want to..." - So now he can create romance from scratch...?

Kishimoto lets us know that Hinata has been the one watching/acknowledging/admiring/loving Naruto the most, and for the longest time. Just because the girl didn't tell him doesn't mean that her feelings for him are any less valid.

SJ: Oda-sensei says he knows how One Piece will end---do you know how Naruto will end?
MK: Yes, I have the last episode clearly drawn in my mind. I've already decided on the layout, text, and scenes. Not just the story ideas, but the visual ideas are solid.
All I have to do is just head toward the ending I have, but there are still so many things that need to be resolved before reaching that point. Maybe I have thrown in too many ideas, so I need to wrap them up neatly.

So many things still need to be resolved before reaching the ending he has? Well in that case... Hinata's feelings will be resolved. If not, then there's an example of a bad writer.

Moving on...

NaruHina Proofs?

-Hinata's development was started by Naruto... it's logical that it will be ended by him too.

-Theme: "believe in yourself" will be hard to add if Naruto will reject Hinata for Sakura.

-Kishi said that he throw in too many ideas and said that he must resolve many issues before the end. ... Hinata's feelings must be resolved.

-It was easier to make Hinata drop her feelings post-time. Did he drop them? Nope. He strengthened them.

-Hinata was one of the first people to see Naruto for who he is. He has an impact on her heart.

-All the development between them in part 1 was cut in half. It means that Kishi didn't want them to be together in part 1... or that he was forced to stop it before it has grown into real relationship. "Wasn't able too..." proves that he was forced to.

-In chapter 172 Kishi has showed that Naruto accepted Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. It would be very... inconsistent if he would pair NaruSaku after that.

-Her character is based on self-confidence. Kishi has hinted that he wants Hinata to confess. This might be her test... I don't think Naruto would reject her. That's my opinion.

-Naruto's just dense... He's already done romantic things for Hinata.... running to her side before she falls unconscious after her fight with Neji when he didn't need to, swearing in her blood to defeat Neji, encouraging her during her fight, searching for her after he beat Neji, shedding his mask in front of her, beating her cousin for her, telling her he likes people like her... (I think I'm missing some). But they've all been subconscious actions."

Thirdly: LeeSaku.
I have to admit I was a supporter of this pairing until I started to see Gaara, and I have to say its far better than the first two in my opinion. But I think that scene where he tried to pick up leaves but failed because he got distracted by the squirrel? with the explosive tag and he missed one leaf, plus the fact that he got beaten up when he went to Sakura kind of told me that the pairing is also doomed like CherriHana said. That and the fact that Lee doesn't seem so interested in Sakura anymore kinda made the pairing dead to me. I don't think that its crack at all, and I'd take it over SasuSaku or NaruSaku any day, but its not my OTP.

Fourthly: KakaSaku.
Sorry peeps, but for some reason or the other it highly bothers me, almost as much as GaaLee does, in fact. As mentioned before, even if Sakura is older now I still don't think it would happen. In my eyes, Kakashi and the rest of team seven have a very strong father-children relationship. Kakashi may not show it, but them being the only people he cares about he obviously loves them a lot.
And for some reason or they other, I really can't image Kakashi going out with anyone (except maybe KakaIru, but even then I do have a hard time believing it even if I like it.). Yeah, KakaSaku could happen, but I don't think Kakashi would end up feeling comfortable dating his ex-student and drop it. It wouldn't last.

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OTPness: GaaSaku.
Yeah, I know it may sound like the weirdest thing in the world and why in the heck I would be arguing a "crack pairing", but let me tell you that its not as cracky as it seems. 3nodding
First of all, I'm a firm believer that Gaara is a very straight character, so GaaLee and GaaNaru are no-nos to me. I'd argue why, but I won't bore you with that. And since I'm not into incest, Sakura is the only girl he has actually -met-, at least in the series. Remember that scene in which Gaara crept up on Sakura but didn't attack her? I don't really think it was made to add tension to the episode, Kishimoto could have easily done something else, but he didn't, so you have to wonder why that happened because it seemed really random. Second was the part of Gaara's past in which Yashamaru mentions someone to heal Gaara's heart. This can be seen as foreshadowing as Sakura becomes a medic nin. Wait? Wasn't it Sakura who made him remember? She must have been a good impact on his life to make him remember that (even if Naruto did help), especially when Gai could have done exactly the same, but didn't. Hint? Maybe.
And in the Gaara Rescue ARK, who was the one that showed she had power? Sakura was by killing an Akatsuki member even if she had help. It could have easily been Naruto or if Kakashi and Naruto would have killed Deidara it would have had the same effect, but he chose Sakura. Hmmm, kind of suspicious if you ask me.
Lastly there's the similarities to DBZ (Which Kishimoto fanboys), in which there are a bajillion already. The NaruHina pairing is a lot like Goku/Chichi and the Gaara/Sakura pairing would be a lot like Vegeta/Bulma. As in the girl being the close friend/older sister to the main character and the male character being a sort of parallel to the main character that was once evil but then became good. A lot of SasuSaku-ers claim that its Sasuke that's parallel to Vegeta but Gaara has many more parallels.
"They're nothing alike!"
Hell, anyone could argue the exact same thing on NaruHina. They're opposites too and yet Hinata's feelings for Naruto are real (see essay/rant above). If Kishimoto already started on one opposite-attract couple, I can't see why he can't put another one such as GaaSaku? A sadist pairing? No, I don't think Sakura has so little self confidence as to have a guy boss her around all the time, which is why I think she could handle a guy like Gaara and why the GaaHina idea doesn't appeal to me.

Anyway, Reya is out.

EDIT: What? No responses? You aren't honestly going to let a GaaSaku-er like me win, are you? xd

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