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inimeniminimoe

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:34 pm


OutkasTeen
Firstly, how'd you underline my comment, I don't remember underlining it (or maybe I did.) Anyway's, If you give up hate it would be easier to then give up lust, but if you gave up lust, hate would not be as easy to give up. That's what that comment was saying and if you can't understand that then get a dictionary. Now, I have found the quote that I was looking for from C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity. Here it is:

"That is why a cold, self-righteous prig who goes regularly to church may be far nearer to hell than a prostitute. But, of course, it is best to be neither."

So the sexual sin isn't regarded as being worse in this quote now is it. And the bible did say loving, not hating your neighbor was the most important commandment, twice. Proving my point, it is best to be neither, but work in your hate before anything else.
Look at your post, in regards to the underline statement rolleyes .
If you want to get snappy, I will surely do so precipitately in kind 3nodding .

I am sure C.S. Lewis defines the bible now, eh? I mean he does right? rofl
About the dictionary comment, work on your grammar, and then we'll get to where we're going faster...

Quote:
2 Thessalonians 1 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.



2 Thessalonians 1
Greeting
1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
God’s Final Judgment and Glory

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,[a] because our testimony among you was believed.
11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Footnotes:

a. 2 Thessalonians 1:10 NU-Text and M-Text read have believed.
Note verse 8 in particular. “and on those who do not obey the gospel”, yet another generalization.

I have in no way or form said, "First do not lust, then stop hating".

Pay attention to what I say, by your response you seemingly do not understand all I am saying, or, are purposely being ignorant. Well, which is it?

Review and explain/ comment:
Something you suddenly decided to jolly over
There is however seven things the Lord hates mentioned in Proverbs, which I could provide. All sin merits death, though when pertaining to situations in life one sin can cause more of a problem over another.

Though this does not make one sin worse or better than another spiritually.

Think about it, you are saying 'this kind of death is better than that one.'
Alright, time to tackle those verses you provided.

Quote:
Matthew 22 The Greatest Commandment 34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Loving God with all of ones heart would mean not sinning... Not hating another is, well, not mentioned here (no discretion of any particular sin, is, mentioned).

Loving ones neighbor as them-self is the second, which is important, though it is not said one loves God any less if they hate in comparison to lust(ing).

Quote:
1 John 4:19-21 19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
And right John is, however, something on an equal plain in this book:

Quote:
1 John 2:15-17 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.



Do Not Love the World

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
Jump'n Jehoshaphat, my, my, seems both hate and lust are on the same situate (what you have provided, from the very same book) in the book of 1 John. Care explaining this one?

Oh, and a friendly reminder, note I am talking about sin in regards to its earthly repercussions, along with the spiritual.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:53 pm


On a side note, what version of bible are you using?

inimeniminimoe


LearningtoBreath63
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:49 pm


Jump_n_Jehoshaphat
On a side note, what version of bible are you using?
NIV, I refuse to use King James Version or NKJV
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:51 pm


Quote:
I am sure C.S. Lewis defines the bible now, eh? I mean he does right? rofl
About the dictionary comment, work on your grammar, and then we'll get to where we're going faster...


No, C.S. Lewis just agrees with the two verses I put out, that's all. He's not going against the bible, but agreeing with the two verses I put out.

LearningtoBreath63
Vice Captain


LearningtoBreath63
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:54 pm


Quote:
Do Not Love the World

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Yes, but we're not talking about the world, we're talking about your brothers and sisters on earth and sex, this is talking about the materialism of the world and has no actual point to be made in this debate. We're talking about loving your neighbor and sex, and which is better to rid yourself of first.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:58 pm


Quote:
Loving ones neighbor as them-self is the second, which is important, though it is not said one loves God any less if they hate in comparison to lust(ing).

Yet in 1 John it says to love God you must love your brother making this wrong. Also, it's 1 commandment in 2 parts really. The commandment is to love, It's just saying that you absolutely must love your God no matter what, but if you add the verse from 1 John that I showed you it really makes this 1 commandment not 2. Because in 1 John it's telling you that you must do the second commandment in order to be able to do the first.

LearningtoBreath63
Vice Captain


inimeniminimoe

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:07 pm


OutkasTeen
Jump_n_Jehoshaphat
On a side note, what version of bible are you using?
NIV, I refuse to use King James Version or NKJV
Alrighty.

Quote:
No, C.S. Lewis just agrees with the two verses I put out, that's all. He's not going against the bible, but agreeing with the two verses I put out.
And I agree with them as well, as surprising that may be. Your interpretation is the problem.

Quote:
Yes, but we're not talking about the world, we're talking about your brothers and sisters on earth and sex, this is talking about the materialism of the world and has no actual point to be made in this debate. We're talking about loving your neighbor and sex, and which is better to rid yourself of first.
1. "World" is a generalization for that which is sinful.
2. Lust is mentioned.
3. No, not brothers and sisters, but hate itself...
4. It does have to do with the debate, if you would care to pay attention.
5. Yes we are talking about loving your neighbor and sex, and lust has everything to do with it (along with the mention: "world"), along with what you have provided from 1 John chapter 4.

Quote:
Yet in 1 John it says to love God you must love your brother making this wrong. Also, it's 1 commandment in 2 parts really. The commandment is to love, It's just saying that you absolutely must love your God no matter what, but if you add the verse from 1 John that I showed you it really makes this 1 commandment not 2. Because in 1 John it's telling you that you must do the second commandment in order to be able to do the first.
Yes, it tells one is a liar if he or she tells they love God but hate an individual in 1 John chapter 4. However, in chapter two it is mentioned the love of the Father is not in an individual if they lust. We love God because He first loved us as you have shown in one of the provided verses (chapter 4). Same deal my friend.

Have you ever heard of the edit function, inivative really... stare
Also, care to address all of my post?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:22 pm


Also, about the loving your neightbor as your-self. If one lusts they do not love them-self very much, as they are sinning. It's on the same plain.

I also realize lust is not sex. However, before sex there must be lust on the parties part. Sex would fall into the "world" category.

inimeniminimoe


LearningtoBreath63
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:26 pm


Jump_n_Jehoshaphat
Also, about the loving your neightbor as your-self. If one lusts they do not love them-self very much, as they are sinning. It's on the same plain.

I also realize lust is not sex. However, before sex there must be lust on the parties part. Sex would fall into the "world" category.
No, when its talking about that, it's saying don't get attached to this life if you want to go to heaven.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:31 pm


OutkasTeen
Jump_n_Jehoshaphat
Also, about the loving your neightbor as your-self. If one lusts they do not love them-self very much, as they are sinning. It's on the same plain.

I also realize lust is not sex. However, before sex there must be lust on the parties part. Sex would fall into the "world" category.
No, when its talking about that, it's saying don't get attached to this life if you want to go to heaven.
Getting attached to life referring to the characteristics of life.
Edit: One of which being sex. Now do you see how everything is held equally in the spiritual aspect?

inimeniminimoe


inimeniminimoe

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:41 pm


Jump_n_Jehoshaphat
There is however seven things the Lord hates mentioned in Proverbs, which I could provide. All sin merits death, though when pertaining to situations in life one sin can cause more of a problem over another.

Though this does not make one sin worse or better than another spiritually.

Think about it, you are saying 'this kind of death is better than that one.'
Response?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:52 am


Jump_n_Jehoshaphat
Also, about the loving your neightbor as your-self. If one lusts they do not love them-self very much, as they are sinning. It's on the same plain.

I also realize lust is not sex. However, before sex there must be lust on the parties part. Sex would fall into the "world" category.


Lust is inappropriate sexual feelings towards someone, not sexual feelings themselves. If I were married (which I am not) and I wanted to have sex with my husband beause I was horny, it would not involve lust since that particular man would be mine. Now, say I check my best friend's husband out and picture myself in bed with him. That's lust. That ain't mine. It's inappropriate sexual feelings towards someone. Attraction does not equal lust. If it is, God played a rather dirty trick on us as he gave us those feelings.

LadyBugLes


LadyBugLes

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:11 am


I just want to clarify a few things.

When Lewis talks about lust being less harmful than hate, he's referring to the fact that hate comes straight out of hell. As does Pride. Pride was the sin of Lucifer he set himself above God and tried to take over heaven. When he talks about diabolical sins, he means stuff that comes out of hell. Lust is merely a twisted natural feeling that has been perverted from it's natural use, while Pride and Hate are actually "of the devil" (to use a phrase I passionately dislike).

Lewis was very interested in what does more damage to the soul, i.e. what takes a person farther away from the mind of Christ, so when he talks about one sin being "worse" than the other he means that it was more damaging to the human soul that engaged in it. Now honestly, I can see lust/sex as a distraction from my life in God but not as a barrier to it. Mostly because mine's never gone much farther than checking out a guy in tight wranglers and thinking I'd like to have a swing like that in my backyard, but I digress. What keeps me from God is my pride, I don't think I need help, I think I should be able to get by without prayer and I feel like an idiot praying for my own needs....which is most definately NOT what should be going on with me! My pride, though it's subtle, very subtle, keeps me from being who God would have me be. In my pride, I want to love God solely for God, and not admit that I need him. Hate, well, hate is something straight out hell as well. It puts anger between ourselves and others and anger between us surrendering our feelings to the Lord. Now all are sin, all are disobedience, but hatred and pride, pride in particular, have a deep hold in the human soul and bring it nearer to Hell than lust....which is only natural desire twisted a bit.

Is this a little more clear now?

I meant to get to this sooner, but I had other things on my mind.
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