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Back in those days when Jesus was on this earth as a man, wine was just grape juice, it means not fermented, so it was alcohol free. There's another word for fermented wine, but since Im spanish I do not know it in english.

And I think even the 'ocasional' drink is wrong, because the bible says that we should 'run from the temptation, not face it' and everytime you drink at least one beer, glass or whatever, you are automatically tempted to drink another one, cause you are human. You can say a lot of times ' I don't feel tempted' but do not lie to yourself.

Comments?

you ARE tempted, but you choose not to drink it, easy like that. It's in human nature, you can't just say 'temptation doesn't get to me' because you're a human (I hope). You probably don't feel tempted, but that is different, temptation doesn't come from yourself, it comes from the devil, so you ARE tempted, it doesn't matter if you don't feel it.

personnally I don't plan on drinking untill I'm 21. Not because of the drinking age (because it's 19 here) but because I want to wait until my liver is fully developped. I like my liver 3nodding

FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME (AND PLEASE, NEWCOMERS, READ THIS)

The wine in Jesus' days WAS NOT FERMENTED it was just grape juice.

Can you tell if God was happy along with you while you were drinking?

Drinking is a touchy subject.

In America, the privilege to drink is abused (and it's a privilege, not a right!). And that is why it's so touchy. I don't know how it is in any other country, but by the looks of it drinking (underage or not) does not seem to be as bad a problem as it is here in America.

I've drank (and I'm almost 19), and I've gotten drunk. Drinking...I think is okay. If it's done during the holidays, at celebrates, and maybe occasionally other times - but in moderation and only a small amount. (and I think this goes for all ages - legal or not)

Getting drunk is not a pleasant experience in my opinion. And due to my experiences, I have promised to God that I will not drink again, that my 21st birthday will be sober...and after that...I'm not sure if I'll ever drink again. *shrug*

I was actually going to come back and elaborate on what I had said, because I have a lot more to say on the subject, but after Victum Souls remark I think I will just run with what he said, since (edited, because he apologized, and he is a cool guy, and its Christmas, yay!)

First off, no, I do not belive that God had a problem with us drinking, He can see our hearts, you cannot. I had wine tonight with my Christmas dinner and I did not even feel like finishing one glass, so how can you say that anyone who drinks will always be "tempted" to have another?

Secondly, if you are going to attack the actions of another in the name of faith, back it up with a scripture verse.

An moreover, what you keep stressing about these ancient cultures not having alcohol is wrong. It is a well known historical fact that they had alcoholic beverages in Christ's time. The Egyptians had been making beer for centuries by that time, and the ancient Babylonians first discovered the process long, long before. They had both alcoholic and non alcoholic wine in biblical times, and the Jews drank both, They have four or five Aramaic words for wine, and even more for it in Greek, and they are often used interchangeably.

Someone stated before that the wine around Jesus's time was less potent, and this is true. It is very likely that what Jesus drank was a very weak alcoholic wine. They made alcoholic beverages because....
1. the water at the time was often unsafe to drink.
2. it was cheap and easy to make.
3. it could keep forever.

The Jews often mixed water and wine together. this had a double benefit of alcohol killing whatever was unsafe in the water, and the water watering down the potency of the wine. The Greeks and other cultures in the area were know for what the Bible calls "mixed wine" , wine that was fermented longer with other things added to make it more potent, These drinks were made with the intent if getting the drinker drunk. When the Scriptures warn about going after "mixed wine" this is what they are referring to.

Throughout the Bible, there is the warning "do not be given to wine".
examples...

1 Timothy 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

These and verses like them appear throuout the Bible and get referenced all the time as verses "against" alcohol. these verses do not stress abstaining from wine, rather taking it in moderation.

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby ° thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

another verse that gets ref. a lot. Again, not saying that drinking is bad, but to do so when it could hurt, tempt or offend another is a sin. I am very careful who I drink around. It also mentions "eating flesh" I have a few vegetarian friends. I see nothing wrong eating meat, but I don't do it around them, because it upsets them.



I hardly ever drink, exept at special occasions, and I am very selective about what I drink, sometimes I like the way the alcohol tastes, sometimes I don't. I had my first drink ever about four months ago when we went on a couples faith retreat that my husbands Chaplain organized (my husband is in the army) and a few of the other couples were having wine with their meals. The Chaplain asked we would mind he bought my husband and I a drink, and I told him that I was unsure it was right or not. Then he preceded to give me the information that I stated above. So if someone who has bee through seminary, and has extensive knowledge of Biblical subjects says it is not a sin, I am inclined to belive him.

Essh, we reposted that the same time razz . I just reposted a rather lengthy (and harsh) rebuttle about what you had said, and if I had seen this first i would have backed off the subject. It basically comes down to this.. the Bible says that if you feel something is a sin, even if others say it is ok, then it still might as well be a sin to you (will find verse later) so if you feel very strongly about it, then you are half right. However, I have done extensive Bible studies on the subject, because I used to belive that it was wrong, and my studies ended up changing my mind. Im sorry if I got harsh, I am sorry. I did not say that because I feel what I am doing is wrong, on the contrary, I am trying to defend something I feel is simply missunderstood. And hey, you gave me the will to actually find scripture references on the subject so yay 4laugh I will most likely edit my first post when I get the chance because of it. Sorry for the missunderstanding, and I hope you have a very merry Christmas.