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What do you think about this?
  It's turned my mind around.
  But, how?
  I think you're delirious.
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ElenaMason

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 2:04 am


Human_King_Commander
NOW. I asked this to my pastor, and he said the same thing. Hades is a catholic term also indicating Hell. Hell, is not just the lake of fire. It is a deep dark place where the lake of fire is. It's cavernous and Satan is stuck in it. Hell is Satan's prison. Yet, Hades is still the catholic term for a middle point between the Human world and Hell. It is mainly referred as the Underworld. As the underworld is Greek MYTHOLOGY, the Hades is translated into The Lord of The Underworld, also HELL.


It may be a Catholic term "as well" but I asure you I'm not Catholic. But Satan isn't stuck in Hell right now either. He roams about on the earth with his fallen angels beside him.
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 12:11 pm


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thrashmetaljunkie


Egon is a Scrub

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 2:45 pm


SaintXenos
Human_King_Commander
NOW. I asked this to my pastor, and he said the same thing. Hades is a catholic term also indicating Hell. Hell, is not just the lake of fire. It is a deep dark place where the lake of fire is. It's cavernous and Satan is stuck in it. Hell is Satan's prison. Yet, Hades is still the catholic term for a middle point between the Human world and Hell. It is mainly referred as the Underworld. As the underworld is Greek MYTHOLOGY, the Hades is translated into The Lord of The Underworld, also HELL.


It may be a Catholic term "as well" but I asure you I'm not Catholic. But Satan isn't stuck in Hell right now either. He roams about on the earth with his fallen angels beside him.


Have you disregarded the Revelations 20: 7

7. And when the thousand year are over, Satan will be released from his Prison

So far, Satan is imprisoned in his kingdom Hell. Don't you know the story of Lucifer?
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 2:49 pm


I agree with trashmetaljunkie, 1 minute is like a million years to God.

Egon is a Scrub


Norma Zamar

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:28 pm


Stories like these only confuse non-beleivers even more.

After satan has done his deeds and created for himself an army of followers here on Earth Jesus will come and put an end to his madness. After a thousand years of being with Christ God will appear, and man will get to see our Father, once again.
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:59 am


Is it possible that she was thinking of Revelations 20?

The Angel comes down and opens the ABYSS and Stan is locked in there for 100 years

Egon is a Scrub


Darkdestroyer

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:10 pm


I'm a good Catholic. Those stories though? Come on!!
Severe head trauma or other injuries could also induce halucinogenic effects on the brain. There are numerous psychological theories to support this. I believe in heaven...but I don't think God would send you a message like that. More like a dewy web that makes you think and question your life and faith!
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:14 pm


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ElenaMason

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ElenaMason

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 12:25 pm


Human_King_Commander
SaintXenos
Human_King_Commander
NOW. I asked this to my pastor, and he said the same thing. Hades is a catholic term also indicating Hell. Hell, is not just the lake of fire. It is a deep dark place where the lake of fire is. It's cavernous and Satan is stuck in it. Hell is Satan's prison. Yet, Hades is still the catholic term for a middle point between the Human world and Hell. It is mainly referred as the Underworld. As the underworld is Greek MYTHOLOGY, the Hades is translated into The Lord of The Underworld, also HELL.


It may be a Catholic term "as well" but I asure you I'm not Catholic. But Satan isn't stuck in Hell right now either. He roams about on the earth with his fallen angels beside him.


Have you disregarded the Revelations 20: 7

7. And when the thousand year are over, Satan will be released from his Prison

So far, Satan is imprisoned in his kingdom Hell. Don't you know the story of Lucifer?


Now your taking things out of context. How about posting the ENTIRE chapter? Satan will be released AFTER he is thrown in there in there from roaming about on the earth. Let me repeat a verse that has already been shown.

Revelations 20: 1-3

1:And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2:And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3: and threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he could not decieve the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:01 pm


Okay try to think about things from a common sense point of view. WHY would they have to throw him in Hell if he was already in there? Why would a KEY be used to open the Abyss if it wasnt already open? THINK about it. Satan roams about on the earth, tempting us of sin, opressing us with his demons. And I will post some verses....

Revelations 12: 9-10

9: And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who decieves the WHOLE WORLD; he was thrown down to EARTH (not down to Hell) and his angels were thrown down WITH him.
10:And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.

and again in verse 12 (verse 11 just stating how God overthrewn him and why)

12: "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. WOE to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to YOU (to us, not to Hell to US) having great wrath, knowing that he has only a SHORT TIME.

and yet AGAIN in verse 13

13: And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down TO EARTH, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.

How more LITERAL can you get than THAT? Each time it says thrown down to EARTH, NOT Hell. How can people possibly refuted what that says? Its right THERE in front of you. However......

I think the verses that get people confused is in Isaieh 14.

Isaieh 14: 12-17

12:"How you have fallen from Heaven, O star of the morning, son of the Dawn! You have been cut down to the EARTH, You who have weakened the nations!"
13: "But you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly in the recesses of the North.
14: 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
15: "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to (Sheol), to the recesses of the pit.
16: "those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,
17: who made the world like a wilderness and overthrew its cities, Who did not allow his prisoners to go home?

Verse 15 specifically I think is what is confusing people. The chapter in Revelations I mentioned above, is just a repeat of what is described in THIS chapter. However, I believe this is being spoken in a future tense about what is said in verse 15. Future tense meaning that once we are snatched up to Heaven, all the believers seperated from the non believers on earth during the rapture, and then Satan is thrown into the abyss, WE ALL finally get to see for he really is, the terror which wrought upon us while WE WERE ON EARTH.

But ALSO, Sheol has some odd meanings as does the word Hades and Hell. And depending on what place and time AND CHAPTER the word is being used, Sheol can give an entirely different meaning for that verse. And this is where people end up in arguments, like this one, as to the true meaning of the verse.

In this case, it is actually saying (...be brought low to the grave, pit is also synonym for grave). A grave is set in the Earth, this being EARTH bound, not Hell bound. And as I said before why would Hell need a "key" to be opened if it wasnt already opened? Why would Satan have to be thrown into Hell if he wasn't already ruling in there? This I mentioned above refering to the verses in Revelations.

Think of it ALSO like this. Beyond just translation......look at the grammer of the sentence.

"Nevertheless you will be thrust down to (Sheol), to the recesses of the pit."

This sentence is speaking in a future tense. He WILL be thrust down. Its not "he IS thrust down into Sheol". This makes a difference in how the setence is read. The same thing in Revelations. I mean come on. If he was already ruling in Hell, if he was already in there WHY would God specifically say seperately that he was thrown to earth? Why would verses specially say that he WILL be thrown into Hell if not now? ......no I'm not seeing things as black and white, you have to LOOK at HOW it is being said, at HOW its translated in the point and time the verse was written.

ElenaMason

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thrashmetaljunkie

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:05 pm


u cursed again saint, theres a rule on that in here
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:10 pm


thrashmetaljunkie
u cursed again saint, theres a rule on that in here


how is saying Hell a curse? Hell is considered a PLACE. Its the same thing as saying "What the HEAVENS are you talking about?" its a figure of speech, not a curse word.

ElenaMason

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thrashmetaljunkie

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:14 pm


o, and one more thing, dun u think ur taking this a lil too far..yelling ain helpin much...and i respect when sum1 tells me i'm wrong when i am, but right now, your not trying to see things from OTHERS point of view, just yours, and further more, theres different branches because some people weren satisfied with the way the practiced their religion, i h8ed a catholic mass when i went to it. why? because it was boring, i couldn even feel the holy spirit moving about. but in my church, you can feel the holy spirit, its full of life, i love it. alot of people prefer to practice their religion in a different way then others. the different denoms is a variety of ways to practice christianity, one of which to suit everyone. there shouldn b so many denoms, but, would you like to go to a diff denom church? how long would you b able to take it for? would you go again? i kno i wouldn go back to a catholic mass by free will. i respect that you study, if i had the paitence for tha, i'd love myself, but i dun love myself, i have so many flaws its not even funny. i cry just thinking about how Jesus can forgive me for the things i've done, and the things i do. i find it amazing you can take the time for all that...its harder for me, tho i try to. n my final point...can't we all just get along? i mean goodness, your like...holding a grudge against everyone. here, i'll start the getting along process *hugs saint* feel better?
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:33 pm


thrashmetaljunkie
o, and one more thing, dun u think ur taking this a lil too far..yelling ain helpin much...and i respect when sum1 tells me i'm wrong when i am, but right now, your not trying to see things from OTHERS point of view, just yours, and further more, theres different branches because some people weren satisfied with the way the practiced their religion, i h8ed a catholic mass when i went to it. why? because it was boring, i couldn even feel the holy spirit moving about. but in my church, you can feel the holy spirit, its full of life, i love it. alot of people prefer to practice their religion in a different way then others. the different denoms is a variety of ways to practice christianity, one of which to suit everyone. there shouldn b so many denoms, but, would you like to go to a diff denom church? how long would you b able to take it for? would you go again? i kno i wouldn go back to a catholic mass by free will. i respect that you study, if i had the paitence for tha, i'd love myself, but i dun love myself, i have so many flaws its not even funny. i cry just thinking about how Jesus can forgive me for the things i've done, and the things i do. i find it amazing you can take the time for all that...its harder for me, tho i try to. n my final point...can't we all just get along? i mean goodness, your like...holding a grudge against everyone. here, i'll start the getting along process *hugs saint* feel better?


maybe i should start using emotion icons cuz i asure you im not yelling smile , when i caplocks a word like THIS im "emphasizing" on a point. if i was yelling thered be ALOT more to say then just refuting each other.

...and on the contrary im not taking ANYTHING too far. someone has refuted me and i refuted back with scriptual evidence. oh trust me, i am seeing things from anothers point of view and respect that others have different religions, however when it comes to "translating" something a point of view can lead to many mistranslated ideas. if they're going to refut me back i WELCOME them to. this is a "debate" afterall. Do you remember from the bible of false preaching? of false prophecy? When something is highly mistranslated or people speaking of things that were never mentioned in the bible, its considered false preaching. SOMEONE has tell and show the truth out there. This is no offense to others religions, that doesnt mean i have to AGREE with them though.

But this thread isnt related to other relgions, its related to other CHRISTIAN religions. And since we all have studied the bible in specific ways, including other off branch bibles, i will surely take the extra step of considering either side and or refuting both sides. It may not look it but I'm actually enjoying this debate. When I debate, it forces me to take the extra step and study God's word FURTHER than what I normally do. In order to back up my words I have to show evidence, and thanks to years of my father's help, I have knowledge of key verses to further help me explain certain things to people, things they normally wouldnt consider, things normally PRIESTS would not touch upon when preaching to others in church.

ElenaMason

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thrashmetaljunkie

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:37 pm


fine, don't hug me back...lol jk, i see wa ur saying..just..ya use the icons lol
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*~Let the Fire Fall ~* A Christian Guild

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