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Strikes to the groin, eyes and throat is dirty fighting and takes no skill.
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Wolf Nightshade

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 12:48 am


Wikipedia
Yvaine
I study one of the prettiest (read: wussiest, according to many) martial arts, and there are plenty of groin strikes, even in the forms. They try to call it something else, but eventually they do have to explain what you're supposedly doing to the invisible man.

However, in sparring sessions there do need to be limits. I take no issue with leg sweeps, etc. Trying to kick out someone's knee, however, must be left for "real" fights, as should throat strikes - at least any with follow-through (in which case it's easiest to just keep them out altogether - sometimes your opponent moves unpredictably, and accidents are better if they don't leave anyone crippled/dead). Limits must always be set to correspond to the level of threat involved. Permanent damage has no place among friends and fellow students.

On the street, now, the first thing I'd be aiming for is a knee. Being a girl, most guys would expect me to aim for the crotch first - it's a typical girly reaction - so they'd either be blocking it or braced for the blow. Therefore, I opt for Target of Choice #2: Knee. As the good book (Kabuki: Circle of Blood) says, "If your opponent cannot stand, he cannot fight." Nor can he chase your arse as you haul tuchus to a safe place and call the police. And, if he's armed (god forbid), it's also more difficult to aim while clutching a ruined knee and sobbing. Remember kids, most aggressors don't actually expect to be hurt in an encounter - they look for an easy victim. Therefore, any real injury really throws them.

As corollary to this, if you're actually ever involved in a street fight, chances are you did something wrong. The two most valuable things a martial artist learns are: 1) How not to act like a potential victim, and 2) How not to act like an irritating a** in need of a beatdown.
I'll get you some metal boots for your birthday (if I met you), so anyone jumps you steel toe to the testicular area, ouch!


I wear steel toeed boots all the time when I was in high school a cop got on me for wearing them he said it was a weapon I just smiled and said I had no idea what he was talking about.
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 4:27 am


I love my steel tipped sneakers. They were perfect in my bouncer days. Lots of toes get stepped on in the bar. I need a new pair though.

Marty Nozz


Wolf Nightshade

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 6:34 pm


I alway thought they were a cool weapon I weld so I got to wear them around the shop any way.
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:26 am


Wolf3001
I alway thought they were a cool weapon I weld so I got to wear them around the shop any way.


I wear steel-toed boots as well because I do theater work, alot of moving, lifiting, ect. and those things have saved my toes countless times. And yes, they do put a little extra oomph in a kick.

Hylonomus


Laren

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 1:06 pm


There is no dirty fighting. When a warrior confronts an enemy, he respects his enemy, and does not hold back any technique.

"Sparring", or "Free Fighting" depending on your school, is for testing the limitations of your technique and your art. Establishing safe parameters is necessary to prevent injury and further study. As a friend of mine once said, "In Aikido, think of your Uke as a very accurately constructed living doll. If you hurt the very accurately constructed living doll, none of the others will want to play with you anymore." He also said of yoga, "What's that sensation coming up from my feet? Oh, I'm DYING."

Mind you, there's also point sparring, in which you are learning to fight, but only striking. If you are taken down and don't know how to deal with it, you will be beaten, and perhaps killed. Balance in training is, as always, necessary.

In competition, such as with most boxing schools, rules are necessary to prevent injury, as well as to demonstrate that the brutal art of killing has been tamed for entertainment.
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:14 pm


Ah... the Collisseaum days... the times where if you didn't get killed, it was poor entertainment. XD And they say that the 21st is has too much violence on the television...

Taiyo


Tatsuya_Kawajiri

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:30 pm


This thread is ******** retarded.
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:37 pm


Oookay. What insights do you have that make it so? You have to remember that not everyone here has seen violence, or understands the dynamics of a real fight. Anyone who understands more should share the understanding.

Laren


Taiyo

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:02 pm


I myself have never been in a 'real' fight, thus I'm lacking a lot of experience in that area. At the same time though, I'd rather try to avoid possible death situations. ^^;; Maybe it makes me a coward, but frankly, it doesn't bother me too much.
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:03 pm


Laren
Oookay. What insights do you have that make it so? You have to remember that not everyone here has seen violence, or understands the dynamics of a real fight. Anyone who understands more should share the understanding.


What do you have to try and understand? Biting, Gouging, Kicking someone while they are down, and the like take no skill. It's not useless, it's just a waste of time to try and train to gouge someone's eyes out.

Mr. Cynical


Tatsuya_Kawajiri

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:08 pm


Having seen many fights. The biggest case of "Dirty Fighting" are people jumping others. I rarely see actual "Dirty fighting." I've NEVER seen eyegouging, or biting *well there was one time but it was a chick fight...* and i see kicking sometimes, but that generally happens when the guy gets jumped. The only thing i've ever really seen that was anywhere near consistent is hair pulling. And that's mainly from girls and a rarely some faggots.


Oh and btw, NEVER WEAR A HOODIE. They'll hold that s**t and pound your face in Hockey style.
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:17 pm


I read a news report on the net a few years back a wrestler at a high school gouged or tryed to gouge someone's eyes in a fight with a guy in the schools parking lot.

Poking some one in the eye takes as much skill as punching some one. We have moves from the Biu Jee form that are directed twords the eye's. We use knife hand strikes to the bone below the eye this comes out of the wooden dummy training.

To me fighting is fighting these are just targets that are weak and some take advantage of that. I have no problem kicking some one in the nuts or following up an attack with a finger jab to an eye. My cousin wrestles and some times we fool around in the yard. Once he came at me and tryed to take out my legs.

I bent down got my arm under him and lightly gave him a ridge hand to the groin and pushed his head to the ground. He said I fought dirty I just laughed and told him I could have just elbowed him to the back of the head.

Wolf Nightshade


Mr. Cynical

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:50 am


Wolf3001
I read a news report on the net a few years back a wrestler at a high school gouged or tryed to gouge someone's eyes in a fight with a guy in the schools parking lot.

Because he adapted what he knew with what he had. Did they teach him how to gouge out eyes on his wrestling team?

Wolf3001
Poking some one in the eye takes as much skill as punching some one. We have moves from the Biu Jee form that are directed twords the eye's. We use knife hand strikes to the bone below the eye this comes out of the wooden dummy training.

It doesn't take skill to punch either. It takes skill to use punching with proper punching mechanics. Seriously, the topic should be "IS FIGHTING WITH ALL YOU HAVE USELESS", instead of focusing on dirty fighting taking skill. And no, it's not useless to use.

Wolf3001
To me fighting is fighting these are just targets that are weak and some take advantage of that. I have no problem kicking some one in the nuts or following up an attack with a finger jab to an eye. My cousin wrestles and some times we fool around in the yard. Once he came at me and tryed to take out my legs.

I bent down got my arm under him and lightly gave him a ridge hand to the groin and pushed his head to the ground. He said I fought dirty I just laughed and told him I could have just elbowed him to the back of the head.
Wow. And to your cousin? You're mean.
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:34 pm


I really think that Wolf prolly got shitkicked in school and could never win a fight. Now he thinks fighting dirty is apparently fair, due to all the beatings.

Tatsuya_Kawajiri


Wolf Nightshade

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:05 am


Quote:
It doesn't take skill to punch either. It takes skill to use punching with proper punching mechanics. Seriously, the topic should be "IS FIGHTING WITH ALL YOU HAVE USELESS", instead of focusing on dirty fighting taking skill. And no, it's not useless to use.


The proper use of a biu jee strike to the eyes is just the same as learning to punch right. If I didn't train my finger thrusting techniques I wouldent understand them as well or be as good at hiting my target.

Quote:
Wow. And to your cousin? You're mean.


Yes I am crule I don't play around with any one I don't believe in the word fair or in what people call dirty fighting. In a real fight there may be a guy with a weapon you may not have one there are no weight classes and any thing goes.

My cousin has a big mouth I tell him he should keep it shut but he dosent do that all the time. One day a guy was driveing down the street and yeld get out of the street white boy. He opend his big mouth which I don't blame him for and had a gun pulled on him. He and I have had talks about fighting and I don't want him geting hurt I never realy hurt him when him and I go at it if I did he wouldent try to fight me any more.

He also tryed to get me to help him in a fight so I told him that it goes against my beliefs to get involved in something like that. I told him if there would be a fight I would keep people from jumping in but thats it. Our oldest cousin got jumped in the bathroom at the high school and had his jaw broken I realy don't want my youngest geting beat like that. All three of my male cousins wrestle they always have.

I am the only one who trains to fight standing and for combat. My cousin needs to understand things that could be used to hurt him and he don't listen very well and don't realy care tell I show him what I am talking about. That kids had his leg broke like 2 or three times dirt bike rideing and also broke something in his neck I am shure he is strong enough to handel a tap to the groin.

One reson I do this s**t to him is because he wants a chance to take me on I want him to be ready for it. He alway wants to fight with me but he is not big enough yet or skilled enough. Last time he got on my back and I almost dind't get him off. He is in high school now so he is about my hight any time now he will probable try again I havent been home much I am going to school away from my home town so I rarly see him.

Quote:
I really think that Wolf prolly got shitkicked in school and could never win a fight. Now he thinks fighting dirty is apparently fair, due to all the beatings.


I fought alot in grade school groing up I had two older brothers who I fought with alot. The time I spent in grade school was where I got most of my fighting experience I fought all the time during recess me and my friends would look for fights and then jump in.

I also got into truble alot for other things burning crap blowing stuff up carrying knives and puling them on people who tryed crap or pissed me off. In the fith grade I started smoking more a teacher found out and told most of my friends parents that I was bad she never talked to me or my parents about it.

Sudenly I had no one to hang out with no one could be around me I went to a friends house only to be turned away by his mom some one I had known from kindergarten. One day I was talking on the play ground to one of my friends I said I was so mad I could blow up her house I was turnd in police showed up and all hell broke lose.

After that mess in 6th grade all my ex friends went to another school but later it was shut down so in 7th I was around them again thats when truble started for me. All of them had changed they called me phsyco and told people all sorts of crap about me I got called into the office often for crap that was said.

One of those things that was going around is that I worshiped satan and killed dogs and cats for fun. From 5th grade to 8th school was hell I managed not to get into any real fights came close a few times but nothing realy hapend. Most of them realy thought I was crazy and were afraid of me.

I am surprised they never tryed to gang up on me they had there chances more than once. Any way I did stupid s**t that later screwed up alot of my child hood some things were my own fault some crap was made up to hurt me. I have been in no real fights sense I was in grade school but because of those fights and the crap I pulled in other situations.

I made a name for my self that has stuck and I some times hear crap to this day. I was once told by some of the people I used to be friends with that I would be the one to shoot up the school and be locked up I never gave them the satisfaction of being right.

I have heard from some people I know that a few of them are messed up now most of them are doing drugs and have been arested for all sorts of crap. Some how I managed to never be arested for any thing I have done and although I have smoked pot on some occasions I have never been hooked on any drugs I don't even drink liquor which is alot of there problems now.

I try to use what I have learned from the crap that I went through and some of the stuff my oldest cousin has been through to teach my youngest not to screw up. My oldest has a drinking problem and from what I here is growing and selling pot. My cousin kristen was involved with a low life guy I went to school with and got into some fights with.

he has been arested for theft, assault, drugs, drinking, underage driveing, driveing wile intoxicated and god knows what elss she was into drinking and drugs and now her problem is that she had sex with a guy who is known to have been arested for messing around with underage girls. She has a kid now from that guy and is haveing all sorts of problems.

I don't want my smart a** younger cousin to end up like me and our other relatives. I have talked with him alot about how he should think and act in order to keep him from geting hurt In the end its up to him. He is almost to the point where he will be out of school and he has never screwed up like we have yet.
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